Do you know, reading Nan's threads and others of late together with my own experience of lack of compassionate communication with hospitals, isn't that something that we could strive to change? That nurses and sisters on the ward are given training by the Samaritans in dealing with the distress and the feelings of relatives, rather than brushing them aside?
Reached rock bottom
- Thread starter Nan2seven
- Start date
Nan, I'm shocked at the way you and Brian are being treated.
As everyone has said, you need to get some help for yourself now. A little over a year ago, when Dad was in hospital, I went through something similar. Nobody in the hospital seemed to have any idea of how to treat him, and I reached the point of exhaustion just fighting for his basic human rights.
Do you know where you want him to go when he leaves hospital? It seems that his care home did not do as much for him as you would have liked. If you can find a good nursing home you may find that he will be much better cared for, and then you can relax a little. My Dad's nursing home is usually very good (there are times when I would disagree with some of what they do, because they're not just running it just for Dad's benefit, but it is good). It means if I need to take a couple of days off,I know he will be looked after and certainly he will be fed and given good care. Maybe if you can find somewhere for him, you could start looking after yourself. Dad's home looks after me too, always asking how I am, getting me tea, bringing sandwiches if I'm there a long time. You sound like you need some TLC as well as proper counselling.
Take care, love Sue xxx
As everyone has said, you need to get some help for yourself now. A little over a year ago, when Dad was in hospital, I went through something similar. Nobody in the hospital seemed to have any idea of how to treat him, and I reached the point of exhaustion just fighting for his basic human rights.
Do you know where you want him to go when he leaves hospital? It seems that his care home did not do as much for him as you would have liked. If you can find a good nursing home you may find that he will be much better cared for, and then you can relax a little. My Dad's nursing home is usually very good (there are times when I would disagree with some of what they do, because they're not just running it just for Dad's benefit, but it is good). It means if I need to take a couple of days off,I know he will be looked after and certainly he will be fed and given good care. Maybe if you can find somewhere for him, you could start looking after yourself. Dad's home looks after me too, always asking how I am, getting me tea, bringing sandwiches if I'm there a long time. You sound like you need some TLC as well as proper counselling.
Take care, love Sue xxx
im sorry to hear what you have been going through...
a written record of complaint should be given as that will trigger action
there must be a care plan and this must be stuck to regarding turning , obs meds etc.....
dont forget that it is a difficult situation for all but try and enlist help of someone who can assist
God bless you keep posting
tim x
a written record of complaint should be given as that will trigger action
there must be a care plan and this must be stuck to regarding turning , obs meds etc.....
dont forget that it is a difficult situation for all but try and enlist help of someone who can assist
God bless you keep posting
tim x
There's no problem at all in putting the telephone number and email of Samaritans in a post.
The telephone number is 08457 90 90 90
and the email address is jo@samaritans.org.
This is the link to their home page
http://www.samaritans.org/
Just to add to what others have said above, that Samaritans are there for anyone who needs someone to talk to, no matter how big or small the problem.
A huge thank you ...
... to all of you who have posted here. I am sitting here blowing my nose and trying to think of more adequate words to say - but can only think of thank you.
I rang my eldest son this morning (he lives in Paris, his wife worked briefly in the A & E dept. of the hospital where Brian is) and told him what had happened. He too was shocked and they both think that I should "take the matter further." And as Matthew said, the sister's reply of "I only came on duty at four so don't know whether he's been in the chair for six hours or not" was no answer at all. (It was by then 5.30.)
I went into the hospital as usual this morning at 10.30 and "hovered" and reassured Brian about being washed, changed and hoisted into his chair from his bed with the stand-aid. He seems to be quite used to it now but needs reminding what to do. To-day he had had some breakfast and I made him coffee and produced a bit of shortbread to go with it. I left him looking content. I was still too recently upset to make any mention of what had happened yesterday to either of the nurses.
I did not tell them I would be going in again at shortly after two o'clock, a plan decided on when talking to Matthew. "Police them if you have to" he said. "It shouldn't be necessary, but it might make them keep more on their toes." So back I went and found one of this morning's nurses, a nice girl, just finishing giving Brian his lunch. At 2.30. Perhaps he had slept through the lunch-hour. She said "We are just seeing to James (same ward) and then we'll put Brian back into bed." "I'm pleased to hear that" I said. "I'll stay until you've done it."
It went very smoothly and I saw her writing something into Brian's folder. "Do you record in there the number of times he gets into and out of bed?" I asked her. "I'll show you. We keep a pressure chart and it's recorded there each time he is moved." "Can you check yesterday? It appeared that Brian spent six hours in his chair without a break - and that's too long." She checked and confirmed that was what had happened. She agreed that it was too long for Brian. "Let me check in another part of the folder to see if any reason was given" she said - but found nothing. I told her I had been so upset at finding Brian face down on his bedside table, I had come back earlier to-day to be sure that it would not happen again. She fully understood.
Brian was tired and I kissed him goodbye and said I would see him later. And I will. I will be going in at 5.30 to give him his tea/supper. He is still more confused to-day that I have seen him for sometime. This morning he thought he was at the local Seamen's Mission Hall (long gone) and wanted a beer. This afternoon he had picked loads of cockles and was going to take them round to his mother's. Everything was to do with cockles this afternoon. But he was cheerful, though tired.
Having a "Plan of Action" after talking with Matthew helped lift me out of the Slough of Despond. But three trips per day to the hospital is not something I can hope to maintain for long. Will not, in fact. But if I keep turning up unexpectedly and perhaps miss the odd morning or evening out ... I will see how things go.
There is a PALS office in the hospital complex. I may yet write out all that happened. Including the "Take your hands off me" bit. When the sister stopped outside the ward, having walked down the corridor with me, I voicing my concerns, with hindsight (and wearing my tallest of cynical hats) I wonder now if she came to a halt to provoke me. All I did was touch her elbow for a moment. She had no excuse for Brian's being left in his chair for six hours and perhaps wanted to put me somehow in the wrong, when it was she and her staff who had let Brian down.
Once again, my most grateful thanks to you all.
Love, Nan XXX
... to all of you who have posted here. I am sitting here blowing my nose and trying to think of more adequate words to say - but can only think of thank you.
I rang my eldest son this morning (he lives in Paris, his wife worked briefly in the A & E dept. of the hospital where Brian is) and told him what had happened. He too was shocked and they both think that I should "take the matter further." And as Matthew said, the sister's reply of "I only came on duty at four so don't know whether he's been in the chair for six hours or not" was no answer at all. (It was by then 5.30.)
I went into the hospital as usual this morning at 10.30 and "hovered" and reassured Brian about being washed, changed and hoisted into his chair from his bed with the stand-aid. He seems to be quite used to it now but needs reminding what to do. To-day he had had some breakfast and I made him coffee and produced a bit of shortbread to go with it. I left him looking content. I was still too recently upset to make any mention of what had happened yesterday to either of the nurses.
I did not tell them I would be going in again at shortly after two o'clock, a plan decided on when talking to Matthew. "Police them if you have to" he said. "It shouldn't be necessary, but it might make them keep more on their toes." So back I went and found one of this morning's nurses, a nice girl, just finishing giving Brian his lunch. At 2.30. Perhaps he had slept through the lunch-hour. She said "We are just seeing to James (same ward) and then we'll put Brian back into bed." "I'm pleased to hear that" I said. "I'll stay until you've done it."
It went very smoothly and I saw her writing something into Brian's folder. "Do you record in there the number of times he gets into and out of bed?" I asked her. "I'll show you. We keep a pressure chart and it's recorded there each time he is moved." "Can you check yesterday? It appeared that Brian spent six hours in his chair without a break - and that's too long." She checked and confirmed that was what had happened. She agreed that it was too long for Brian. "Let me check in another part of the folder to see if any reason was given" she said - but found nothing. I told her I had been so upset at finding Brian face down on his bedside table, I had come back earlier to-day to be sure that it would not happen again. She fully understood.
Brian was tired and I kissed him goodbye and said I would see him later. And I will. I will be going in at 5.30 to give him his tea/supper. He is still more confused to-day that I have seen him for sometime. This morning he thought he was at the local Seamen's Mission Hall (long gone) and wanted a beer. This afternoon he had picked loads of cockles and was going to take them round to his mother's. Everything was to do with cockles this afternoon. But he was cheerful, though tired.
Having a "Plan of Action" after talking with Matthew helped lift me out of the Slough of Despond. But three trips per day to the hospital is not something I can hope to maintain for long. Will not, in fact. But if I keep turning up unexpectedly and perhaps miss the odd morning or evening out ... I will see how things go.
There is a PALS office in the hospital complex. I may yet write out all that happened. Including the "Take your hands off me" bit. When the sister stopped outside the ward, having walked down the corridor with me, I voicing my concerns, with hindsight (and wearing my tallest of cynical hats) I wonder now if she came to a halt to provoke me. All I did was touch her elbow for a moment. She had no excuse for Brian's being left in his chair for six hours and perhaps wanted to put me somehow in the wrong, when it was she and her staff who had let Brian down.
Once again, my most grateful thanks to you all.
Love, Nan XXX
Nan
I am pleased that you sound slightly more in control than earlier, but you should never have been put in this position.
The plan of varied times to visit sounds good, but somewhere in all this planning will you please remember that you ARE VERY IMPORTANT TOO.
((HUGS))
I am pleased that you sound slightly more in control than earlier, but you should never have been put in this position.
The plan of varied times to visit sounds good, but somewhere in all this planning will you please remember that you ARE VERY IMPORTANT TOO.
((HUGS))
Thinking of you
Will be thinking of you as you go back to see Brian later
I hope things are as positive as they were earlier
sending you a Hug
GILL
Will be thinking of you as you go back to see Brian later
I hope things are as positive as they were earlier
sending you a Hug
GILL
Dear Nan,
Sorry I wasn't around earlier, I'm so glad to hear that you telephoned your son and worked out an action plan between you, it is so important to have someone to bounce ideas off, and you are now in a team which is so much better than being all alone.
My heart goes out to you as you look after Brian with such obstacles being put in your way.
Take good care of yourself, with kindest regards from Jo
Sorry I wasn't around earlier, I'm so glad to hear that you telephoned your son and worked out an action plan between you, it is so important to have someone to bounce ideas off, and you are now in a team which is so much better than being all alone.
My heart goes out to you as you look after Brian with such obstacles being put in your way.
Take good care of yourself, with kindest regards from Jo
Glad to read your response, you sound less distressed and have worked out a short term coping strategy.
Nan I had been unable to force myself to visit Nats today, (bad visit yesterday) now after reading your post, I am putting my shoes on and going there right now.
Bet you'd never have thought at your lowest you could still inspire another TP'er to get up, get out and cope. Thank you.
love Bastan. xx
Nan I had been unable to force myself to visit Nats today, (bad visit yesterday) now after reading your post, I am putting my shoes on and going there right now.
Bet you'd never have thought at your lowest you could still inspire another TP'er to get up, get out and cope. Thank you.
love Bastan. xx
Nan, it's great that you have worked out a plan of action with your son. You'll feel less at the mercy of the staff. And it's good to go in at irregular times, that will keep them on their toes.
But don't wear yourself out. You're important too, and it's too easy to lose sight of that.
Love,
Last edited:
Dear Nan,
What can I say that hasn't already been said?
You're an inspiration to us all.
After reading this thread from the start..and hearing how low you were..to now when you've re-evaluated and "started again" leaves me stunned.
I'm pretty sure that you won't be able to relax and find peace until you know that Brian is safe and well cared for..and I fully understand that.
Hope things go well with this evening's visit.
Love xx
What can I say that hasn't already been said?
You're an inspiration to us all.
After reading this thread from the start..and hearing how low you were..to now when you've re-evaluated and "started again" leaves me stunned.
I'm pretty sure that you won't be able to relax and find peace until you know that Brian is safe and well cared for..and I fully understand that.
Hope things go well with this evening's visit.
Love xx
I only just read all this through, it's absolutely terrible how Brian was treated and you too, I am glad you are visiting to keep an eye on things, shouldn't have to do this but it seems you do. Hope you are feeling a bit better and get some quality sleep tonight, love and hugs Pauline xx
Nan, I am so glad you rang your son, I would say to every spouse of a dementia sufferer please keep your children involved, I want to know when my dad is finding the going tough, I don't live near but I can always get there, and I want him to tell me how he is, and how mum is.
As to the ward sister, she is actually responsible for what happens on her ward when she isn't there so saying she only got on duty at 4 is the lamest of the lame excuses.
No you can't go in three times a day, it will leave you wrecked. I would take things further, I think it will get Brian good care even if it leaves you unpopular.
Speaking as a nurse, though I work with children, I am never offended if a relative puts their hand on mine, or touches me. I have even had spontaneous hugs. I also know that the answer "I don't know I wasn't on duty" is not something I would EVER give to a concerned relative, so you do have a justifiable complaint.
Love Pippa xxxxx
As to the ward sister, she is actually responsible for what happens on her ward when she isn't there so saying she only got on duty at 4 is the lamest of the lame excuses.
No you can't go in three times a day, it will leave you wrecked. I would take things further, I think it will get Brian good care even if it leaves you unpopular.
Speaking as a nurse, though I work with children, I am never offended if a relative puts their hand on mine, or touches me. I have even had spontaneous hugs. I also know that the answer "I don't know I wasn't on duty" is not something I would EVER give to a concerned relative, so you do have a justifiable complaint.
Love Pippa xxxxx
Thank you for the further posts, and particular thanks to you, Pippa, for your final paragraph.
Visited Brian again at 5.15 this evening. He could not at first be woken when I got there, and when he did wake up had several "vacant spells" when he neither met my eye nor responded to anything I said to him. (This is typical pre- or post-TIA behaviour.)
When the nurses went to sit him up in bed for his supper, he was found to be very wet, both upper and lower sheets, shirt and pad. They washed and changed him - and his behaviour while they did it was I think the worst I have witnessed. Swearing and threats to punch and bite. I held his hands and spoke to him throughout, but a lot of the time it was as though he could neither hear nor see me. One of the nurses was excellent with him, would stop everything and talk to him to explain what she was doing and why, and get his agreement. She even made him laugh at one point, but his short-term memory is so poor that the moment was quickly lost. But not before he had given her a lovely smile and both nurses had commented on it.
It was emotionally draining to watch him and yet remain upbeat and reassuring. He smiled at the end of it all and when asked if he now felt more comfortable, said he felt "lovely".
He was too tired to eat all of his supper and fell asleep while trying to finish the ice-cream - which enabled me to creep away a little earlier than usual. There are one or two nurses whom I cannot praise highly enough, and this evening's was one of them. Such a shame that they should be the rarity rather than the norm.
Once again, I must thank all of you, every one, who posted on this thread to-day. I am so grateful.
My love to you all,
Nan XXX
Visited Brian again at 5.15 this evening. He could not at first be woken when I got there, and when he did wake up had several "vacant spells" when he neither met my eye nor responded to anything I said to him. (This is typical pre- or post-TIA behaviour.)
When the nurses went to sit him up in bed for his supper, he was found to be very wet, both upper and lower sheets, shirt and pad. They washed and changed him - and his behaviour while they did it was I think the worst I have witnessed. Swearing and threats to punch and bite. I held his hands and spoke to him throughout, but a lot of the time it was as though he could neither hear nor see me. One of the nurses was excellent with him, would stop everything and talk to him to explain what she was doing and why, and get his agreement. She even made him laugh at one point, but his short-term memory is so poor that the moment was quickly lost. But not before he had given her a lovely smile and both nurses had commented on it.
It was emotionally draining to watch him and yet remain upbeat and reassuring. He smiled at the end of it all and when asked if he now felt more comfortable, said he felt "lovely".
He was too tired to eat all of his supper and fell asleep while trying to finish the ice-cream - which enabled me to creep away a little earlier than usual. There are one or two nurses whom I cannot praise highly enough, and this evening's was one of them. Such a shame that they should be the rarity rather than the norm.
Once again, I must thank all of you, every one, who posted on this thread to-day. I am so grateful.
My love to you all,
Nan XXX
It's a relief to read your post today and see how positive you are being and it must be a real support to Brian to have you around. My mum can be quite abusive and it is very upsetting to watch, she seems to know instinctively when carers are impatient and she is worse with them than the ones who take their time. I dread her having personal care because it is so difficult for her to contemplate going in a hoist etc.
I have to agree that it seesm strange that the nurse stopped just before Brian came into view on the ward - it's as though she was quite sure she wasn't going to be "told" what to do, even though you were not telling her, just asking for her help in caring for your hubby! Some people are like that whether they are nurses or not, but I just wonder why people like that become nurses when they have clearly had a total compassion bypass!
Sending you a big hug tonight. Hope you don't feel too drained, and can miss a visit now and then as you suggested in your last post - without worrying too much. You really have moved mountains. xx
I have to agree that it seesm strange that the nurse stopped just before Brian came into view on the ward - it's as though she was quite sure she wasn't going to be "told" what to do, even though you were not telling her, just asking for her help in caring for your hubby! Some people are like that whether they are nurses or not, but I just wonder why people like that become nurses when they have clearly had a total compassion bypass!
Sending you a big hug tonight. Hope you don't feel too drained, and can miss a visit now and then as you suggested in your last post - without worrying too much. You really have moved mountains. xx
Oh Nan,
I'm so sorry the day ended so sadly. It took me back to the days and weeks directly following dad's stroke. It was a major one, and his behaviour was unrecognisable for my dear old dad. I used to get very frightened, and would leave the hospital with a heavy heart and a thumping head. I couldn't release the thoughts, feelings and emotions and they were using up every bit of space in my being. They consumed me.
It got better...but I'll never forget how that felt. Much of what you wrote today took me back there, and I have nothing but sympathy and respect for you right now.
I wish I could say something more positive, but at the very least I hope you know we're all here. Ready to listen and ready to listen again.
There will be a balance, you know. I don't know how long it will take to find it, but with your son's help, and all of us here, we will keep you up until some form of peace is found.
Sending much love,
I'm so sorry the day ended so sadly. It took me back to the days and weeks directly following dad's stroke. It was a major one, and his behaviour was unrecognisable for my dear old dad. I used to get very frightened, and would leave the hospital with a heavy heart and a thumping head. I couldn't release the thoughts, feelings and emotions and they were using up every bit of space in my being. They consumed me.
It got better...but I'll never forget how that felt. Much of what you wrote today took me back there, and I have nothing but sympathy and respect for you right now.
I wish I could say something more positive, but at the very least I hope you know we're all here. Ready to listen and ready to listen again.
There will be a balance, you know. I don't know how long it will take to find it, but with your son's help, and all of us here, we will keep you up until some form of peace is found.
Sending much love,
Dear Nan, I am deeply concerned about you and can only echo everyone in saying please do look after yourself.
Early this morning you recognised that you had reached rock bottom and although talking to your son steadied you up, gave you some strength, you have been through so much, and there is more to come. It must have been difficult for you returning to the hospital today. Yes it is emotionally draining to see and feel the awful distress yet trying to remain upbeat and reassuring. As you know, it hits you later.
You need to try to find ways to pace yourself, not run on an empty tank but keep topping it up.
Counselling or more immediately, Samaritans, is not a weakness. Make time for your own needs, for you sake and for Brian.
Sorry, I do not mean to nag. Like everyone else, I am worried about you. Just as you would be worried about any of us in your situation.
You are wise to go in at irregular times, rather than them expecting you at the same times and being prepared for you presence. It would also be wise not to go in every day although I realize how hard that would be for you.
The Sister was in the wrong to have come on duty at 4pm and not know Brian had been sitting like that for so long. Head staff coming on duty are supposed to be informed or inform themselves concerning patients. Considering Brian's condition if she was not verbally informed then she should have read his notes. Although it sounds as if they were not properly written up. Another of the staff at fault. However, "I don't know" is not good enough from a ward Sister.
I also wondered why she came to a halt in the ward doorway when the natural thing to do would have been to continue with you into the ward. She must have known she was in the wrong not to be up-to-date with Brian and perhaps felt guilt, on the defence plus irritation, hence her reaction to your natural gesture. Whatever she thought or felt, she was very wrong to imply that your gesture came under "abuse" and to say what she did.
Touching the Sister's elbow with your hand was hardly "hands on", or justification for her saying " Take your hands off me, Mrs P..."
I probably did worse when I put my hand on a Sister's arm and gently squeezed it. In gratitude and relief. She was the first nurse in six weeks who had an understanding of dementia, who listened and and related to the concerns I was expressing and discussed them with me. We had quite a long talk and I felt overwhelmed by what she said. As I touched her I was almost in tears and said "I could hug you!" She smiled and said "take care".
Sorry I've written so much, and anxious to hear how Brian was and how you are after this evening's visit.
Oh, I am out of date, I was reading you earlier post but now your more recent one.
Also what you wrote Pied:
Not only concerning myself as a patient but also their attitude and behaviour to other patients. Particularly the elderly. Including my mother when she was dying. I'm now in that age bracket myself, but when in hospital a few times 12-15 years ago I was shocked.
Although when in for surgery 6 years ago I did have one gem of a staff-nurse who somewhat restored my confidence that true nursing "caring" in all senses of the word does still exist.
But again more recently, I was shocked by the attitude of some nurses concerning my elderly husband with dementia. One staff-nurse in particular could barely conceal her impatience and irritation.
I digress...
Hoping you sleep tonight, Nan, from exhaustion if not from a mind at peace as I would wish for you, and you must be so exhausted. You do need healing sleep. I do most deeply feel for you.
Much love
Loo xxx
Early this morning you recognised that you had reached rock bottom and although talking to your son steadied you up, gave you some strength, you have been through so much, and there is more to come. It must have been difficult for you returning to the hospital today. Yes it is emotionally draining to see and feel the awful distress yet trying to remain upbeat and reassuring. As you know, it hits you later.
You need to try to find ways to pace yourself, not run on an empty tank but keep topping it up.
Counselling or more immediately, Samaritans, is not a weakness. Make time for your own needs, for you sake and for Brian.
Sorry, I do not mean to nag. Like everyone else, I am worried about you. Just as you would be worried about any of us in your situation.
You are wise to go in at irregular times, rather than them expecting you at the same times and being prepared for you presence. It would also be wise not to go in every day although I realize how hard that would be for you.
The Sister was in the wrong to have come on duty at 4pm and not know Brian had been sitting like that for so long. Head staff coming on duty are supposed to be informed or inform themselves concerning patients. Considering Brian's condition if she was not verbally informed then she should have read his notes. Although it sounds as if they were not properly written up. Another of the staff at fault. However, "I don't know" is not good enough from a ward Sister.
I also wondered why she came to a halt in the ward doorway when the natural thing to do would have been to continue with you into the ward. She must have known she was in the wrong not to be up-to-date with Brian and perhaps felt guilt, on the defence plus irritation, hence her reaction to your natural gesture. Whatever she thought or felt, she was very wrong to imply that your gesture came under "abuse" and to say what she did.
Touching the Sister's elbow with your hand was hardly "hands on", or justification for her saying " Take your hands off me, Mrs P..."
I probably did worse when I put my hand on a Sister's arm and gently squeezed it. In gratitude and relief. She was the first nurse in six weeks who had an understanding of dementia, who listened and and related to the concerns I was expressing and discussed them with me. We had quite a long talk and I felt overwhelmed by what she said. As I touched her I was almost in tears and said "I could hug you!" She smiled and said "take care".
Sorry I've written so much, and anxious to hear how Brian was and how you are after this evening's visit.
Oh, I am out of date, I was reading you earlier post but now your more recent one.
Oh how very true, Nan.
Also what you wrote Pied:
I have been fortunate to experience a few wonderful nurses, but I have seen some who should never have been in the profession.
Not only concerning myself as a patient but also their attitude and behaviour to other patients. Particularly the elderly. Including my mother when she was dying. I'm now in that age bracket myself, but when in hospital a few times 12-15 years ago I was shocked.
Although when in for surgery 6 years ago I did have one gem of a staff-nurse who somewhat restored my confidence that true nursing "caring" in all senses of the word does still exist.
But again more recently, I was shocked by the attitude of some nurses concerning my elderly husband with dementia. One staff-nurse in particular could barely conceal her impatience and irritation.
I digress...
Hoping you sleep tonight, Nan, from exhaustion if not from a mind at peace as I would wish for you, and you must be so exhausted. You do need healing sleep. I do most deeply feel for you.
Much love
Loo xxx
Dear Nan,
I hope you managed to get some rest last night.
What you are going through is unbelievably horrible but sadly all too common.
Your hubby needs you to watch out for him and I think you are right to stagger your visits.
It must be very distressing to see him like that and our thoughts are with you every time you go to see him.
We are with you in spirit,
Take care of yourself
xxxxxxannexxxxxxx
I hope you managed to get some rest last night.
What you are going through is unbelievably horrible but sadly all too common.
Your hubby needs you to watch out for him and I think you are right to stagger your visits.
It must be very distressing to see him like that and our thoughts are with you every time you go to see him.
We are with you in spirit,
Take care of yourself
xxxxxxannexxxxxxx
Recent Threads
-
-
-
Council Tax Disregard - some advice please
- Latest: Javangreenmagpie
-
-
-
-
-
