Problems with a Deputy

[snowman1]

Hello - I hope someone can help with severe problems I and my family are having with a solicitor, who has been appointed a deputy for my mother. I'll try to keep it brief!!!!

She is 87 and unfortunately she suffers from dementia. She is still at home and has been receiving care for which she has been paying due to her level of savings. The Social Worker in charge of my mothers case decided to a solicitor to take over her affairs last March. They have now been made her Deputy by the Court of Protection.

They have managed to make a complete mess of my mother's affairs. She had capital of £40,000 and income of £850 per month. Her expenditure (predominantly on carers) was approximately £2500.00 per month meaning that she should have about £27,000 left.

However we now have a situation, where her bank account seems to be overdrawn. There are unpaid bills and direct debits. The carers have not been paid since January, so understandably some of them are reluctant to continue working. This means my mother is not receiving the care she needs. Fortunately my 2 sisters live locally and have between them managed to cover the gaps, though they are not trained and are unable to attend to all her medical needs.

We have e-mailed several times but they seem to have done absolutely nothing. We have also been in contact with the Social Worker but she tells me that she now has a different job and will not get involved. We are at our wits end trying to get someone to take responsibility and find why there is now apparently no money to enable her to meet her obligations.

What really frightens me is what would happen to someone in this situation, who had no family to support them. The conduct of Social Services and the Solicitor is a disgrace.

Sorry if this rambles on but any help or advise would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

[Nannybus]

What a disgraceful situation. I do hope there is somebody on this site that can give you some practical help, as I would not know which way to turn.

When I realised that my mother was not paying her bills, and anything I tried to do resulted in her calling me a thief, I got so tired of the accusations that I approached the SW to take over her monetary affairs. Thankfully, in hindsight, she declined. I did not go down the solicitor route, as they certainly are not trustworthy and fees exorbitant anyway, so I struggled on and muddled through somehow, although it was a most stressful time. A lot of money did go missing, although not nearly as much as in your case, but that was down to mother herself drawing money from the bank and 'mislaying' it.

The trouble is that you need a quick solution, as care has fallen by the wayside and needs to be put back in place quickly. I do hope somebody can help you to resolve this.

Please keep posting so that we can keep up with the outcome. My thoughts are with you.

 

[sharina]

Deputy

I am sorry.This should make sense to me but isn't.

Why did the solicitor not arrange a deputyship order that appointed a family member as deputy? it would be quite unusual for this not to be the case.a solicitor charging out some £150-200 per hour should not be administrating your mum's affairs.Why did the social worker get the solicitor to do it?Are you sure the solicitor is deputy?

Clearly your mum's estate would incur charges like court fees,solicitors costs of the deputyship order,medical certificate.Moreover there is an annual insurance payable.

Who is holding the "running"account.get a copy and get back to us here.

 

[Jancis]

Dear Snowman1,
Welcome to TP, I do hope you will get lots of good advice here. I am in a similar situation to you in that my relative has been appointed an independent Deputy to manage and protect his property and affairs. I applied to take on the role but other non-family members objected. But the appointment was a decision made by the COP not by SS. I'm afraid I don't understand how this situation has arisen and find it very hard to believe that the Deputy could somehow fritter away your Mother's money as he/she will be accountable to the COP and their legal fees will be fixed in any one year. There is something very wrong here. If you would prefer to send me a PM (private mail) I might be able to suggest something constructive to help.
Best wishes,
Jancis

 

[zebb37]

I am sorry to hear that you are having problems. There really is no excuse for this.

You will need to talk to the court of protection with regards to complaints.

I am suprised that they did not take on this task themselves as they are duty bound to manage financial affairs competently, applying for funding when savings fall below £6000.

When we both had to give up work it wasn't long before our finances fell into a perilous state. The court of protection saved our home from repossesion and has put us in a much sounder financial position

 

[snowman1]

I am sorry.This should make sense to me but isn't.

Why did the solicitor not arrange a deputyship order that appointed a family member as deputy? it would be quite unusual for this not to be the case.a solicitor charging out some £150-200 per hour should not be administrating your mum's affairs.Why did the social worker get the solicitor to do it?Are you sure the solicitor is deputy?

Clearly your mum's estate would incur charges like court fees,solicitors costs of the deputyship order,medical certificate.Moreover there is an annual insurance payable.

Who is holding the "running"account.get a copy and get back to us here.

Hello again....

Thanks for your comments and advice - I should have posted before !!

It is a long story but initially my brother and sister were appointed as Attorneys but there was a dispute between them. This was caused by my brother not providing any financial records of the large amount of money he was spending.

So the Solicitor was appointed by the Social Worker, who is now washing her hands of the problem as it is ‘’not her responsibility’’ any more.

I have also had some good advice from Action on Elder Abuse this morning, and I felt I might be getting somewhere until I just had an e-mail from the Solicitor which answers virtually none of my questions.

It seems that a large amount of money has disappeared and I am beginning to think my only option is to involve the Police.

Dear Snowman1,
Welcome to TP, I do hope you will get lots of good advice here. I am in a similar situation to you in that my relative has been appointed an independent Deputy to manage and protect his property and affairs. I applied to take on the role but other non-family members objected. But the appointment was a decision made by the COP not by SS. I'm afraid I don't understand how this situation has arisen and find it very hard to believe that the Deputy could somehow fritter away your Mother's money as he/she will be accountable to the COP and their legal fees will be fixed in any one year. There is something very wrong here. If you would prefer to send me a PM (private mail) I might be able to suggest something constructive to help.
Best wishes,
Jancis



Thanks for you offer of help Jancis. I'll PM you with more info.

I'll keep posting updates...Ta again

 

[jenniferpa]

I don't think I can add anything but to summarize:

1)Deputies are appointed by the COP. They may have been suggested by the social worker, but they are appointed by the COP and under their control. I would pursue this first.

Concerns about an Attorney or Deputy

* If someone is concerned about the actions of an attorney acting under a registered Enduring Power of Attorney or Lasting Power of Attorney, or a Deputy appointed by the court of Protection, they should contact the Compliance and Regulation Unit of the Office of the Public Guardian (OPG). There is a dedicated phone line for reporting concerns: 020 7664 7734. The OPG can investigate the actions of a Deputy or Attorney and can also refer concerns to other relevant agencies. When it makes a referral, the OPG will make sure that the relevant agency keeps it informed of the action it takes. The OPG can also make an application to the Court if it needs to take possible action against the attorney or deputy.

from http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/concerns/suspect-abuse.htm

2) If this was some form of bizarre informal arrangement, then I can't see how this could be legal.

3)If the social worker has moved on, then you need to move up the food chain, to her boss or further up the line. I believe all LAs now have their complaints procedure online, and I would be making use of it.

4) This is the page to complain about solicitors and their actions. I suspect that you would need to use the solicitors regulation authority as the solicitor is not working for you.
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/redressscheme.law

 

[JPG1]

Hello Snowman

If you feel that the appointed Deputy is abusing their role as Deputy, you should contact the OPG (Office of the Public Guardian) because I think the level of supervision is all in the hands of the OPG. And that supervision is nothing to do with the social worker who was involved in the solicitor being appointed originally.

They can discharge a Deputy if they have reason to believe that the Deputy has not acted properly - which could be fairly serious for a Solicitor.

 

[snowman1]

I don't think I can add anything but to summarize:

1)Deputies are appointed by the COP. They may have been suggested by the social worker, but they are appointed by the COP and under their control. I would pursue this first.



from http://www.publicguardian.gov.uk/concerns/suspect-abuse.htm

2) If this was some form of bizarre informal arrangement, then I can't see how this could be legal.

3)If the social worker has moved on, then you need to move up the food chain, to her boss or further up the line. I believe all LAs now have their complaints procedure online, and I would be making use of it.

4) This is the page to complain about solicitors and their actions. I suspect that you would need to use the solicitors regulation authority as the solicitor is not working for you.
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/choosingandusing/redressscheme.law

Thanks for the advice....
I have contacted the COP and they are being helpful. They are reporting the matter to their Compliance and Investigation Unit.

I have made formal complaint to Social Services and they have replied that they will have some sort of answer before the end of the week. I have also spoken to the Legal Ombudsman but they will not get involved until I have gone through the Solicitors Complaint Procedure. I have also spoken to the Police but they won't get involved as it's a civil matter. Still they did give a call reference so at least I can quote it back to the Solicitor.

 

[sharina]

Deputy

Well if the solicitor is the Deputy it's a simple matter of asking for a copy of your mother's a/c.This should show you where the money is/has gone.he will be charging quite alot for the work.it might be a reasonable rate?

 

[Nebiroth]

Yes, the Office of the Public Guardian is the place to go.

There are stringent rules governing the duties of Deputies and what is expected of them - much more strict than those that are applied to Attorneys. This is because Deputies are made so by the Court of Protection and this is done without the permission of the person whose affairs are in question (called the donor). Attorneys are chosen by the donor and it is assumed that they will have chosen someone they trust implicitly.

For example, Deputies have a duty to keep detailed records of all the decisions they make on the donor's behalf, and they are required to keep written records and accounts - particularly where expenditures are involved. Attorneys are not required to do this, although it's a good idea for them to keep at least some record of their actions.

I would imagine that the consequences of mismanagement or failings in duty as a Deputy would be quite severe for a legal professional such as a solicitor. The consequences of fraudulent behavior would, of course, be a criminal matter.

The OPG is certainly the place to lodge a complaint. I would let them persue it.

 

[sharina]

Deputy

If the solicitor is the Deputy and if there is any suggestion of fraud,the law Society will come down like a tonne of briscks.Is the solicitor a sole practitioner a partner or in partnership.

I would ask for the accounts.if they are not forthcoming speak to the senior partner and follow it up by letter.if that does not resolve matters then the Law Society Redditch can be contacted.

However,if this is a partnership I would be surprised if it should get that far.Partners tend to make associates and solicitors lives a misery for even failing to account for interest on small sums.Certaily in decent practice.

Solicitors are very good at self policing.

I suspect that a fair proportion of the money has gone in charges. You are of course entitles to request a remuneration certificate from the practice for all charges incurred.Also solicitors are not entitled to recover charges unless there is an Article 6 client care letter sent.This should set out all legal charges,hourly rates and give an estimate.


What sort of practice was it.how many partners?

 

[snowman1]

Hello again,

I do appreciate all the posts and advice. You begin to feel like you're banging against a brick wall as every turn I take you get one of two responses:
A) 'You may be her son but you have no legal right to any information'.

and/or B) 'We will not get involved in family disputes'

Both of which make me mad as how is my Mum supposed to ask for any information and if there was no dispute the solicitor wouldn't be involved.

Anyway it seems 2 steps forward 1 step back. Had a message from COP today saying that they had requested solicitor to advise the OPG with details of how Mums funds had been spent. Once they have they will advise what action they will take.

The solicitor has also replied that '' at a glance the money is all accounted for''. Strange how now she seems some figures at hand. There are a lot of other inconsistencies - she claims not to have received a letter from the OPG dated 31 Jan. They received the court order on 19 Jan but still are not operating a running account- they are waiting for a chequebook!!!

I really think they are hoping I'll go away quietly but they have picked the wrong person.

There is one point I could do with some clarification on if anyone knows. The OPG told me that it was the solicitors responsibilty as a deputy to pay the carers in the interim period once the Court Order had been passed. They told me that they could apply to the COP for an advance if there were no funds.

The solicitor has stated that,.......
'The carers did not get paid as soon as we received the order as we did not have access to any funds straight away. As I am sure you can appreciate although we wrote to everyone straight away, it takes time for banks etc to respond. We also had to assess your mother’s financial situation and wait for all the carers to give us their details. For months we were asking for the carers names, addresses etc but this information was not forth coming.'

The order came through 6 months after they initially took control and I know the carers were constantly phoning them chasing their money.

There are plenty of other inconsistencies in her e-mail, which I shall be going through very carefully.


The solicitor seems to be quite a large firm with 12 partners according to their website. The letter hey sent us when they took over states that the charges are capped at £1300. I think this is the reason why they are so reluctant to put much work in when they normally probably charge £150-£200 per year!!!

Will keep posting to update.

 

[Jancis]

My situation with my relative is different as he went from hospital to nursing home and decisions were all made by SS and the NHS at Best Interest Meetings. As there was no-one legally empowered to take care of his finances at that time, the Council financed his care by aid of a bridging loan - for many months. When finally the COP appointed a Deputy (solicitor) there were very few debts accrued (apart from the bridging loan). I would have thought that SS could have given similar aid to your mother and ensured that essential care would not be in jeopardy?

 

[Margaret W]

Snowman

I hope you get answers soon. Seems an odd case. I have access to a good and fair solititor if you need to switch.

Margaret

 

[sharina]

Deputyship

I think that you should speak to the head of elderly services at Social Services.Fundamentally if it was not for your family,your mother would be grossly neglected.She seems to be "at risk" She is technically in the care of social services with personal funding.They are neglecting her and I think there is criminal liability under the Mental Capacity Act.

It seems that becuase the carers are not showing,her needs are not being met.

You are not responsible for her.You are not the Deputy.Social Services are responsible for her.Ring them today and advise that if anything adverse happens to your mum due to lack of care.... you'll sue.

 

[snowman1]

I think that you should speak to the head of elderly services at Social Services.Fundamentally if it was not for your family,your mother would be grossly neglected.She seems to be "at risk" She is technically in the care of social services with personal funding.They are neglecting her and I think there is criminal liability under the Mental Capacity Act.

It seems that becuase the carers are not showing,her needs are not being met.

You are not responsible for her.You are not the Deputy.Social Services are responsible for her.Ring them today and advise that if anything adverse happens to your mum due to lack of care.... you'll sue.

Thanks for the advice Sharina. I did make a complaint to Social Services and the General Manager for Older People Services is investigating and I have been promised a reply by Monday or Tuesday at the latest. Solicitor has also sent me an e-mail full of contradictions and untruths. I get the feeling that because they are working to a fixed fee set by the COP they really haven't been bothered to look after my Mum's interest properly and done other things, which are more lucrative for them instead. The solicitor has stated that they have not received information from my brother such as Carer's details and utility bills despite requesting them last June! I am sure this could be seen as neglect in its own right, as this caused problems in maintaining care and paying bills. It's a real mess but I will keep going until I get answers and someone is held to account.

 

[snowman1]

Update

Hello,

Social Services are taking over the care from Monday and will be funding it.

I'm still waiting for a reply from Social Services as they have 2 managers looking at my complaint.

I've got the local MP involved who has contacted Social Services and is also writing to the Solicitor. Hope she might get more info than I've managed to. Solicitor has promised a reply to my complaint by 14 March, though I'm sure they'll come up with plenty of excuses.

Still at least Mum's immediate care is being looked after. We've just got to find out how things got in such a mess and where all the money has gone to.

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

 

[cragmaid]

Glad you're making progress, but furious that you've had to get to this position. Good Luck Maureen.

 

[snowman1]

Update

Just thought I would post to let you know what is happening.

I feel like I am banging my head against a brick wall!

The only good thing is that mum's immediate care is being taken care of but I cannot get anywhere in finding out who is responsible for the mess.

Solicitors are refusing to disclose any details as I am not their client.

Social Services have replied today saying that there was a request for a financial assessment on 30 Nov but no reason as to why it did not take place for a further 3 months.

None of them seem to be able to investigate where the money has disappeared to. The OPG has written to me and says that from the info the solicitor has given them the 'high expenditure is due to care costs'.

I will not give up and will keep going until I get some answers. It just frightens me to think what would happen if mum was on her own and had been left at the hands of Social Services and the Solicitor without someone to keep an eye on things.