Thoughts on Funerals

[Grommit]

Hi Everyone

Over the last two days I have attended one funeral service and one ashes scattering ceremony.

To deal with the funeral service first.

Funerals are always difficult events, whether you are directly related to the deceased, friends or neighbours of the deceased or friends of the family of the deceased.

Years ago, they were occasions when the emphasis was on the religious faith of the deceased and the services consisted of bible readings, hymns and solemn music. A few words would be given by the Vicar, Canon or other religious representative which would highlight the religious aspect of the deceased and little more.

The funeral services have changed over the years and have rightly become a celebration of the life of the deceased and cover many more aspects of their lives than ever before.
The music has changed. You can now expect anything to be heard during the service, football anthems, 1940’s dance music, favourite bits of symphonies and, in the case of my old music teacher, no music at all.

Some things seem to have remained constant though, or so I thought. As kids, we were always taught that no one enters the Church until the coffin has entered. At the funeral yesterday, nearly everyone was in by the time the hearse arrived. Am I wrong in thinking this a mark of disrespect or is it the norm these days to precede the coffin?

The other aspect that has changed is the coffin it’s self. Usually of highly polished wood with strong handles and carried shoulder high through to the place it rests while the service is conducted, the coffin yesterday seemed to be made of wickerwork of some sort and was pushed in on a trolley arrangement, presumably because the handles did not appear to be strong enough to take the weight.

Is there a trend now away from wood to a more environmentally friendly material or was this a one off?

Some of the music by the way was Anne Shelton (I’ll Be Seeing You) and, perhaps more appropriately, Vera Lynne (We’ll Meet Again).

Now to the ashes scattering ceremony.

Must admit to this ceremony leaving me sad and somewhat angry.

I have never attended one of these before and naturally took the word “scattering” to mean exactly that. Opening the urn in the Garden of Rememberance and allowing the wind to do it’s job.

I was surprised then to find a small hole about 9” square and 6” deep dug in the ground and, close by, a small mound of earth.
The urn was then passed round to all the particpants in turn and we mumbled our farewells in an atmosphere of embarrassment and, for my part, with a lack of dignity which should have be present at the ceremony.

The contents of the urn were then placed in the ground and we were invited to perform the last act the living can carry out for the dead, throw a small handful of earth over the remains.

The sadness came when thinking about the end of a 96 year old life and the anger came when thinking about such a small plot for the matriarch of a family with a big personality who reigned over her family for such a long time.

I have never felt anger when attending burial services or cremation services but at the scattering ceremony today, I did.

I have resolved to have my remains scattered to the winds, preferably from the wind created by the passing of a steam train on one of the preserved railway lines. If not possible, the end of the pier at some seaside resort.

 

[BeckyJan]

Oh Grommit - I have been to a dear friend's funeral today. Not sure what will happen to his ashes.

The church was full but it was not sombre - he was not a religious man but full praise was given for his humanity. He was responsible for a German POW, he liked him, so turned his wireless up loud and allowed Fritz to escape!

For my own ashes there is a spot in our doggie walking days where our dog chased rabbits - a beautiful spot in the Peak District National Park. As their hind legs scuff up the soil my backside will be truly kicked.

 

[jenniferpa]

I can't speak to the ashes scattering (my mother's ashes went off the top of the cliffs in Seaford, after checking which way the wind was blowing ), but I do think the wicker casket is very much a thing of the times. I know when I was looking that you could even get DIY kits which I thought was, well, interesting.

There are many sites selling wicker caskets. WARNING: do not look at these sites if you are at all prone to tears. Somehow the hand crafted nature of these seem especially tragic, particularly the childrens ones.

 

[Onlyme]

We are going to put MIL ashes in the family cremation plot along with her sisters and parents. I hope that they are not going to shatter them but put the whole pot in.

 

[Vonny]

Dear Grommit,

I can sympathise with your anger. When my husband was cremated the assembly had already been seated so my choice of entry music (Four Seasons, one of Bri's favourites) had to be curtailed pdq as there was only coffin and close rellies to get to the front.

I wanted "Let Me Entertain You", cos that's what Bri did, but had to think of his poor old mum who wouldn't have understood it at all.

The wicker coffins are more ecologically friendly apparently, but I just went for a bog standard hardwood one.

I scattered Bri's ashes a year after his death at the crem where his dad was interred. I say "I", but I couldn't actually bring myself to so the little chap from the crem did it. The ashes sort of fell out in a sad little lump under a bush and all I could think was "my god, is that all that is left of us?" Horrendous.

Me? I'll be scattered over the West Yorks moorland. V Heathcliffe and Cathy!

 

[lin1]

Hi Grommet .

Ive never attended an official scattering of ashes , so I do not know if there is a choice of ceremony, I have always assumed the ashes were scattered.

With my mum when we arrived at the Crematorium we were greeted by the Vicar who asked if we wished to follow mum or enter first , dad and I chose that we all should enter first .
I am glad we did as we watched mum being brought in shoulder high our chosen music playing , with great respect .

We chose a standard coffin usesd for cremations now , everthing fully combustible , it was beautiful, so highly polished .

I know some people wish to be more enviromentally friendly but we would not have liked mum wheeled in on a trolly and know for sure that mum would not have wanted that either

Im also glad that now we have choice in the ceremony and songs , it makes it, as you rightly said , a celebration of life and so much more personal .

I have fond and loving memories of my mums funeral sevice and of a song that used to make mum giggle , played at the end of the service , which caused the vicar and undertakers great difficulty in covering there smiles , * A pub with no beer.* untill they saw our big grins

 

[sleepless]

My mum's ashes were buried in an oak casket.
I thought it was dignified. My dad and my husband lowered the casket into the ground (my dad had carried it to the burial plot) and we said the Lord's Prayer, as well as we were able, as we were all crying. She has a headstone, and I get much comfort from keeping it tidy, with flowers, and I love to see her name as I approach the spot, which I know sounds odd, but her name, written, as well as spoken, is rich in memories.
Each to their own I suppose.

We live in a small village, where traditions are generally upheld, but here it is usual for all but close family to be seated before the coffin enters.

Woodland burials, wicker caskets, there seems to be a lot of choice nowadays. Knowing my dithering when given a choice, I will be late for my own funeral!

 

[florence43]

Hi,

I remember when we had to chose dad's coffin, which in itself I was never going to be prepared for, and the lady asked if we'd like to see the cardboard ones. I wanted to laugh! Luckily I pulled myself together, but in my head was pulling a funny face and saying "do you really think my dad's going off in a cardboard box?". I half expected her to get out some sticky backed plastic and say "here's one we made earlier...".


But out of politeness, and because I didn't know what the protocol was for choosing coffins, I went with her and all the coffins were in a room, mostly with pictures on the side. Locomotives, cruise liners, electric guitars...it was surreal. We went back to our little private room and my sister and I promptly chose a beautiful maple coffin with big brass handles. Cardboard...nil points!

I've been to a few cremations and can only remember one burial, which was my grandad's and I would only have been 13 at the time. I haven't witnessed anything like you described, thankfully, and in the case of my dad...he wanted to be cremated, but mum wants to be buried. So dad's waiting at home, in his bedroom in a beautiful wooden urn, until he's reunited with mum. He will be buried in her coffin, and they'll go together to a place we can visit. He didn't specify a place to be scattered, and the only place he ever wanted to be was with mum. So it's simple.

I do understand your point. Sometimes we come away from a funeral feeling serene and sometimes, just confused.

Love,

 

[sleepless]

I suppose what our posts illustrate is that there are several ways to deal with a person's cremated remains.
For those who prefer cremation to actual burial, but wish to have a grave, there is the option we chose for my mum.
Others wish their ashes to be in a Garden of Remembrance, but with no particular spot to mark them.
Or placed somewhere meaningful to the deceased or family, like under a favourite tree.
Or scattered to the winds from a favourite place.
In our local churchyard ashes are buried in the way Grommit described in his post -- possibly there are restrictions on burying them in containers, I don't know.
I know I want my ashes to be wherever my husband's will be, and vice-versa.

 

[Canadian Joanne]

With my father, my sister and I really had no choice, as he died in Guatemala. He was cremated and we brought the ashes home. We had a service at his bar in Guatemala and another, more traditional one, in Canada.

It will be very similar with my mother. We have decided to cremate Mum and then bury her ashes with our grandparents, as there is room for up to 4 sets of ashes. We will have a service here and another in Québec, which is where her ashes will be buried.

As for me, I told DH that he could do whatever made him feel better, as long as he had a proper wake, with lots of wine and booze and decent food. No sandwiches, thank you very much! It will be my last party and I want to go out in style.

 

[Tender Face]

Grommit, I recall sitting in the Funeral Directors with my mother discussing a choice of coffin for my father ....... “Well, what do we need to pay that for?” she pipes up, “It’s only going to get burnt!”

(Subsequently realised she was already well into the throes of dementia by that time).

Nowt like a bit of northern, gritty honesty is there? I must confess, I do like the eco-friendly versions .... not that I am planning on my own just yet!

As for the scattering ... my mum was insistent I was not to have her ashes and they were to be scattered anonymously by the crem .... I assumed they would feed the roses in the remembrance gardens? Perhaps she had seen enough ‘scatterings’ herself to try to protect me from the reality?

Mind, I daren’t tell the tale of what she did with dad’s ashes on a public forum!!!!!

So sorry you have been left so saddened and upset. You’ve had more than your fair share of grief of late. Perhaps 2011 will be four weddings and a funeral, not the other way round? (Pink taffeta at the ready!)

Love, Kaz, x

 

[jenniferpa]

The other thing I should add: my mother threatened me with haunting should I do anything other than the bare minimum when it came to her funeral. She did pre-pay (but prepaying really only gives you a very basic funeral) but I was mindful of what she had always said regarding the waste of money around funerals. I'm sure that approach wouldn't be for everyone, but I think it's important that you try to do what the person who has died would have wanted, and if that involves cardboard, so be it.

I do think it's very important to make such things clear for the future: my family know very well that I will not be looking benignly on any added expense to funeral directors, although a party will be fine.

 

[Mameeskye]

I think that the acts after death are very personal to us all. But words that remain with me came from the series Robert Winston did years ago, when a chap dying from cancer allowed his last hours to be filmed. Prof Winston spoke about life after death, in its simplist atomic form, we are molecules and we will recombine and so live on.

When driving past the crematorium I always think of that and how people are living on in the fields, trees etc ...and the poem "do not stand at my grave and weep"

Grommit, what was left was a small pile of ashes, but far, far more of your friend is around you, in the trees, the air, the plants, everywhere you look.

They are one again with the living earth.

My Mum and Dad were scattered at a lochside...but I dream that, by now, the water will have carried them far and wide, stretching out...and with the winds that would carry them from the crematorium they can be here with me too, on the other side of the world.

 

[Skye]

Hi Grommit

What an emotive subject, but I think it's good to discuss it. It's so difficult to think straight when a loved one has died.

John's funeral was religious, with hymns and prayers, as have been all the funerals I'd had to arrange, as we have all been practising Christians. John's differed though because for the first time I introduced the 'celebration' aspect. John's eldest son spoke of his life with his father, then I spoke of mine. It was light-hearted but respectful, and I think John approved.

What usually happens is that the congrgation wait outside, or in a waiting room, until the hearse arrives. Family members are then led to the front of the chapel, followed by non-family members. When everyone is in, the celebrant asks the congregation to stand, and the coffin is brought in. John's three sons and my son were going to carry the coffin, but it was too heavy, so they wheeled it in, each holding a handle.

The burial of ashes was a more intimate occasion. Only John's eldest and I were present. The ashes went into a small hole, as you describe, but in their casket. I had chosen a tree, which was planted before the ashes were buried, and there is a small plaque.

I know many people want their ashes to be scattered, but it is important for me to have a focal point. I often go and just walk round the loch and feed the ducks, it's so peaceful there, and I always come away calmer.

But that's just us. Everyone should do what feels right to them.

 

[Rachel T]

This is very fresh for me as it was only last week that I choose a coffin for my mum. Her funeral is Monday 24th. We saw the cardboard coffins and believe it or not they were more expensive than the basic wooden one's.

We choose a nice oak with brass handals. Again wicker maybe coming fashionable but I just don't like the thought of them.

As for music we are having "Smile" the song that Charlie Chaplin wrote. When I was visiting her month or so ago there was an entertainer there singing that song and she said how much she loved it. I have downloaded Nat King Cole signing it and burnt it onto a CD. At the same time I downloaded "Memories of you" by Johnny Dankwarth as she used to go and see him with his band when she was young. I thought that would be for when we are walking into the chapel.

The vicar that came out to see me yesturday said that we will all go into the chapel first and then he will bring in my mum. Must be the way they do it now??

A funeral we went to a couple of years ago of a dear old friend had the old Irish song "Cigerettes, Whiskey and Wild Wild Women"
It was brilliant this was our old friend to a tee. He smoked liked a chimmney, drank too much whiskey and loved the woman even at nearly 80!!!

I don't know much about ash scattering. My mum is having a burial. My parent in laws are both still waiting to be scattered but getting the 5 children together when most of them don't speak to each other is going to be difficult. (I'm staying out of it)

 

[jimbo 111]

This thread is very poignant to me as
I have just returned from the cemetery
My wife died in May and today would have been our 61'st Wedding Anniversary
Before witnessing the scattering of her ashes I had only been to one cremation and been present at the ashes being scattered On this occasion the ashes were scattered on a rosebed followed by suitable prayers by a member of the crematorium staff and those present I was impressed and when my wife died I decided to do the same. I kept the occasion quiet, just myself and my three sons ( I was quite surprised to learn at that time a majority of people do not attend a witnessing of the scattering )
I was however rather uncomfortable at the time when I realised that the ashes were not going to be 'scattered' but as previously described,were placed in a small hole in the turf The prayers etc,were suitable and it was done with dignity, but I could not overcome my discomfort (at that time) In my thoughts I felt that I should have had the ashes buried in a plot with a suitable stone
However I have since changed mind and now I am comfortable with the situation
The ashes are 'buried' in a pleasant glade of trees and there are a couple of benches where you can sit and quietly reflect on life and 'now'
The crematorium has a very pleasant Chapel of Remembrance and has a lovely quiet atmosphere, I put my flowers (always roses) in a vase and take just one rose to the spot where I know her ashes are and say a quiet litte prayer.
Today, being a special day, I put the rose and a small card with the message To 'My Lovely Lady ' with all my Love on this Special Day
I may have wandered a bit from the original post but if you will forgive me I feel much better that I have been able to share my thoughts with members of TP, who I am sure will have some understanding
God Bless jimbo111

 

[Skye]

Bless you and your lovely lady, jimbo.

X

 

[maryw]

You need a stiff drink before you go into the undertakers; naively I had no idea so many decisions had to be made at a very difficult and upsetting time. I'm sure it wasn't like that in the old days - can't help but feel consumerism has reached funeral parlours as well!!!

The vicar told us stories (rather inappropriately I thought) about using wicker in hot weather.....

I remember being horrified; this is the only place i've repeated it!

 

[Norman]

Hallo Jimbo
Don't post much these days but we have both lost our beloved partners,I felt I wanted to respond to you
I still have my Peg's ashes,they sit there waiting to be joined by mine.
We will then be taken to Martindale in the Lake district where we spent so many happy hours together,and scattered in this most beautiful place.
I am happy with this,together for eternity.
Norman

 

[noelphobic]

Some things seem to have remained constant though, or so I thought. As kids, we were always taught that no one enters the Church until the coffin has entered. At the funeral yesterday, nearly everyone was in by the time the hearse arrived. Am I wrong in thinking this a mark of disrespect or is it the norm these days to precede the coffin?

The custom here seems to be that relatives follow the coffin into the church but friends go inside before the coffin starts to be carried in, although they do often wait until the cortege arrives at the church.

I have yet to go to an ash scattering ceremony but will be doing so over the next couple of months or so and think that will be immediate family only with a short service conducted by the priest who conducted my parents funerals.