what else can you do

[trakand01]

Well, i'm not 100% informed myself, but things are not good.

Grandparents both stayed with Mum and Dad over the weekend until yesterday, when they declared they wanted to go home. Rather, Nannan wanted to go home. She'd been barely talking to anyone since Grandpa came home. Apparently when he got back from the hospital (after a very nice but complete stranger responded to an appeal on the local radio station because Mum and Dad couldnt get their car out off the estate and took Dad to collect him and bring him home) Nannan went into the kitchen. He went in after her and tried to put his arm around her, but she pushed him away (in his chest). They sat down and he tried to hold her hand but she wouldnt let him. Eventually she told him he'd been ignoring her since he came home

They argued a lot, I understand, as they used to before he went into hospital. I gather mainly because Grandpa was trying to jolly her along (he talks to / treats her like a porcelain doll) and Nannan was having none of it.

Anyway, Mum and Dad finally got the car out (after Dad spent all saturday digging with the neighbours to shift the 2foot of snow - we live in Sheffield - off the road) and went across to their house to put the heating on and clear a path on the drive etc.

Yesterday, they took them shopping, and took them all back across to their own house on the other side of the city. Parents had tried to get them to stay at least another night as Grandpa had to go to the hospital this morning. They were going to have to get a taxi to the hospital as the carpark is treacherous and so it would have been easier to get one taxi from parents' house to hospital, but no, they wanted to go home. So home they went.

Dad had to drop them off, with Mum carrying as much as she could and get them down the drive, then Dad had to go park about a half mile up the road by the dual carriage way because there was literally just a track down the middle of their road, nowhere to park. Then he had to make two or three round trip journeys to the car to fetch all the shopping etc and carry it all back to their house.

Anyway, Mum went upstairs to find Grandpa because he'd been gone ages, to find him up a ladder putting things in the loft!!!!

She told him to get down, in no uncertain terms and a row kicked off. She went to get all the rest of the stuff out of the car with Dad and when they got back, Grandpa just went and sat in the lounge. Mum couldnt find Nannan, and eventually found her sat in the dark in the bathroom for some unknown reason.

Anyway, they left on bad terms but all plans still in place for today until this morning, when Grandpa rang at 7am to say not to go across, he'd prevent her entering the house, he didnt want and wouldnt accept her help, cancel the taxi, he'd do it all himself.

Which is incredibly ungrateful considering that Mum has taken nearly 3 weeks' holiday/compassionate leave/random 'time off' to look after both of them, run them around etc, that they looked after both of them whilst the snow was bad, Dad walked 3 miles to the local shopping centre on Saturday morning, then dug out to make sure everyone could get about and so on and so forth and now this.

Mum's also trying to get in contact with the doctor (who understands the situation and speaks to Mum privately when necessary) because Nannan (when she's throwing a tantrum) hits grandpa, in the chest. She also tells him to stop being mardy (a local term). She completely manipulates him - partly his fault as he has pandered to her for hte last 60 years and has, as Mum said 'created a monster'. Mum rang the memory clinic on friday to try and find out if there was anything that could be done about nannan's temper and agression (she lashes out, swinging her fists and so on) but they said to call the doctors. Mum's tried but after a couple of hours of 'the line is out of order' has now moved onto 'please call back during opening hours' which is now.

I've still got a lingering cold and my OH's got shingles. Dad's going over tonight apparently to see if he can talk to them because Grandpa is refusing to even speak to Mum, now. Mum is distraught, but says it's always been like this - Grandpa will (always, without fail) do whatever it takes to keep Nannan happy, even if that upsets everyone else around him. Even before her illness Nannan was very demanding like this, to the detriment of my Grandpa's relationship with his parents and sister. It's too late to change anything now, but where on earth do they go from here?

 

[turbo]

Hello trakand01, just sending some sympathy. What a very difficult situation for you all. I have seen on our local news how bad the weather is in Sheffield. Your poor mum and dad making so much effort to help your grandparents and that help is not appreciated at all. Wish I had an answer for you.

Turbo

 

[trakand01]

Is it normal for a AD/VD sufferer to be so... manipulative? It is the case that his attention has to be 110% on her, all the time, or else all hell breaks loose. Rather like a child, really who wants 100% of their parents' affections and makes life hell if they don't get it. Unfortunately he has catered to/for this for decades now and it is worse than ever as she doesnt seem to have the mental checks in place that she had before the illness.

 

[sistermillicent]

My overwhelming feeling when my mum was being so very difficult and nasty and violent was that the whole house was being run by dementia, everything revolved around the illness, nothing seemed healthy.

So yes, I think it is normal for things to be as bad as you describe, but whether it is acceptable or not is another matter. I think your mum has a tough time to go through, I can only suggest you keep in touch with her regularly so that she can let off steam.

Things change with this illness, sometimes overnight. I imagine other people will be along with suggestions about social workers and gp's and things, which will probably be considerably more constructive than this.

xxxx

 

[Jancis]

Hi Trakand01,
How much of each and every day do you spend worrying and talking about your parents and grandparents? It sounds like a horror story for all concerned.

 

[Meercat]

Hi Trakand01
You are being a great support to your Mum and Dad through this - as you are venting your worries and concerns on here and then it means you can be strong for them when they've had another challenging day.

It's possible that your grandad doesn't understand his wife's illness and he may benefit from some advice from an alzheimers advisor - at least this way your Mum wouldn't be getting it in the neck if the advice wasn't welcomed!!

I hope you get better soon and your OH - shingles is nasty.

Take care
Meercat

 

[trakand01]

Hi all,

Quite a lot of time, Jancis, there's not a lot else I can do about it.

Well, hopefully something may happen. Mum rang the memory clinic again, and told them everything. The nurse rang back and said she was going to speak to the rapid response team, whatever that is - social care i guess. Anyway, they're going on Friday morning, with a doctor too... Mum's not told Grandpa yet and has warned them that he may refuse to let them in but we'll have to see.

I've had a long time on the phone with Mum tonight, and reinforced that this is the best thing to do. She thinks it will efficiently 'end' her relationship with Grandpa as she thinks he'll cut her off completely, but I said well, if that's the case then perhaps we have to console ourselves with the knowledge that we've done EVERYTHING (and more) that we possibly can do. If he shuns whatever help is forthcoming on Friday, there's really nothing else to do...

 

[sistermillicent]

You have done everything you can, and it sounds as if things might change quite dramatically in the near future. You will get through this, and with support, so will your mum. You would not forgive yourselves if something happened and you had been too scared to intervene.

Please let us know how it all goes, and please keep coming here for support.

Does your mum use a computer, because I think she might find TP supportive as well.

with love
Pippa

 

[Margaret W]

Eeh dear, it sounds like your Nannan's always been a demanding lady, and your grandad has done his best. So given that she isn't one of those wonderful old nannan's that some people have, it is going to be a hard slog. My daughter lives in Sheffield, so I know the snow has been hard for you.

I just wish you all the best and maybe it won't be perfect for you, but what else can you do but your best?

Much love

Margaret

 

[Jancis]

Well, hopefully something may happen. Mum rang the memory clinic again, and told them everything. The nurse rang back and said she was going to speak to the rapid response team, whatever that is - social care i guess. Anyway, they're going on Friday morning, with a doctor too...

This does sound like positive news and I do hope you and all your family will get some serious help from the professionals on Friday. I hope they keep the appointment and nothing gets in the way - no more snow please. Let us know how everything goes. I hope you didn't think I was being insensitive - I was concerned that you were beginning to become overwhelmed by the stress of it all.
xxxJancis

 

[cragmaid]

Ww3

Hiya Trakand01 Can I shorten that to Trak? Anyway it sounds like WW3 is still threatening at your grandparents house. I know that from what you've said the old lady can be more than a handful and I'm sorry if I sound pessemistic, but I wonder if your Grandfather is also now having problems,he is so adamant in his refusal to accept help and I really don't think that he can be aware of the damage he will do to himself and also possibly to his wife if he does not take help quickly. I really do know that this is not what you want to hear but it is reading that way to me. You and your OH have a lot on your plates at the moment, and there is a limit to what your Mum and Dad can do too, especially if they want to retain any sort of "normal" life. Keep warm and keep safe.x.

 

[trakand01]

hi all, on my phone so grammar isn't wonderful. Thank you all for your thoughts, i really wasn.t expecting so many replies. To answer a few queries, yes mum is very computer literate, and she knows about the forums but for whatever reasons has chosen not to come on here. I suspect she is maybe not wanting to know any more about the disease than she already does. It helps me though. Jancis, thank you for your concern i have been diagnosed with anxiety, if you can even call it a condition, but we.re getting there. I can.t do separate paragraphs i.m afraid, on my phone, sorry! yes i think grandpa is depressed. He tells mum one minute how he doesn't want help, the next he says he wants to throw himself off a bridge. i very much don.t think he comprehends that this isn't something that doesn.t affect other people. I think he thinks that because he's the daily carer, that means 'out of sight out of mind' for everyone else but of course that's never going to be the case!

Dad has been over tonight, and mentioned friday. He didn't explode, and he didn't outright refuse. Personally i.m taking that as an expression of him actually, secretly being not upset that it.s happening but his #1 concern is not what could happen in the long term, but what may happen in the short term, ie as soon as they leave and nannan kicks off.

Mum feels awful because he's saying these things about bridges and rivers but really, she's done everything she possibly can, and a bit more. I seriously hope that the doctor and the rapid response team get in there on friday, and if nannan kicks off while they'r there, maybe that.ll be for the good as they'll get the real picture. They say it will be an assessment, so i.m guessing it.s a community care assessment, which hopefully wil ae a good thing.

Thank you for your thoughts again. By the way, shorten it to whatever you want, it.s just a character from my favourite series of books. my name is sarah x

 

[trakand01]

Frustrated

Well Mum called them on the phone this morning, pretending as though nothing had happened, and got Nannan the first time. She asked if they wanted her to go and fit up the new Freeview box which my parents bought for them last week. Nannan said she didnt know, Grandpa was in the bathroom and she'd get him to ring back when he came down. he didnt, so Mum rang back and he answered. He was frosty with her, and when she asked him, he said he didnt know, she'd better ask Nannan so passed her over. Anyway, Nannan must have said yes, because she's gone over there. She says she's going to act as though nothing happened, and see how it goes. Dad has said if Grandpa is funny with Mum, he will confront him over it as this cannot continue - for anyone's sakes.

We're not sure if Grandpa knows that Mum will be there too on Friday. I dont think he'll be happy when he finds out because he'll realise he can't lie to them if she's there. I firmly believe that's what he's been doing all this time - lying to everyone about how things really are.

I'm feeling quite... detached... about it today. I guess this 'rapid response' team are social workers, and that's what we need. If he shuns their help, or if he cuts Mum off as a result, well we've done everything we can. At the end of the day, you can't help people who don't want help. What's frustrating is that he DOES want help, but he wants something to happen like magic, with no painful bits in the middle. That's never going to happen whilst Nannan still has enough ounce about her to realise what's happening.

Grandpa defers every decision to her, even though HE'S the one of sane mind. 'Do you want a lift to the hospital'? "I'll have a chat with Mum.", 'do you want me to come fit up your Freeview box?' "I'd best ask your Mum..."

Why?? When they went to ASDA the other night on their way home from Parents house, apparently my Mum had the list, and Grandpa said to her "Give the list to your Mum, because she's the housewife." She hasnt been a housewife for nearly 25 years! All she does if you give her the list is hold it out in front of her, whilst people read off it over her shoulder anyway, but if you DONT give it to her, she kicks off because you're not involving her.

Sorry, I shouldnt rant, I just find it all so frustrating. I KNOW she's ill, but I also know that this behaviour isnt 'new' since her illness, it's just an exaggerated form of how she's always been, and Grandpa, unfortunately has made a spoilt brat out of her.

He keeps saying to Mum how 'its got nothing to do with you, it doesnt affect you, I'm dealing with this, what's it to you' and the answer is simple - he's NOT dealing with it alone. Yes he's there 24/7 but whether he realises / appreciates it or not, there's about 3 other people running around trying to make things run smoothly in the background.

Anyway, I will see how things went when Mum went across, she's not been in contact yet so i guess either they're having a barney or she's not finished yet. She's going to have a cuppa with her friend from work this afternoon who's father also has AD in the latter stages so hopefully she'll get some comfort from her.

With my cold and OH's shingles and the snow / ice / freezing fog / work etc all I can do at the moment is be on the other end of the phone but hopefully that's enough for now.

 

[turbo]

Hello trakand01, rant away. I can understand how frustrating this must be for you and your family. I think a lot of us must know women who have been spoilt/ indulged by their husbands. My lovely FIL (he died in January) totally indulged my MIL (he was 10 years older than she is). She is now in a care home with dementia. Hope the meeting goes well on Friday.


Turbo

 

[trakand01]

I've just remembered something that really 'sums up' my Nannan's behaviour, and my how my Grandpa responds to it. This is from well before Nannan exhibited any evidence of AD.

In 2004, my Dad's mum, my Grandma, died. For what it's worth, although she could be cantankerous and 'tact' wasnt a word she had ever had explained to her, my Grandma WAS very considerate and in her latter years accepted every ounce of help offered to her as her mobility declined. She was sharp as nails right to the end but her body gave up and she went into a 'step down centre' because she had fluid on her legs and couldnt get about. She was only supposed to be in there a few weeks whilst the fluid drained off, then she coudl go home because she was perfectly capable of fending for herself, mentally. However, within 3 weeks of going into that place, she died.

I think she gave up as soon as she didnt HAVE to look out for herself (she was 86). However, the place she went into wasn't good. She and my Mum's parents had a wonderful relationship, and my Grandpa, I believe, now thinks that all nursing homes are like that place.

Anyway, she died on the Sunday, and my Nannan and Grandpa were very good, rallied around and helped out in every way possible, as they had always done for Grandma - they used to take her shopping, clean for her and do bits around her house. On the Monday, Mum, Dad and I went into town to tie up some bits and bobs, and whilst we were out, my parents bought them a cable box or something similar, as a thank you present as they only had terrestrial TV.

I remember us going over, giving it to them and thanking them for everything they'd done. They were grateful and everything was lovely.

Until the next day, when my Grandpa rang up, irate, wanting to speak to my Mum. This is 2 days after her MIL / Dad's mum had died. He was angry because Nannan had said that when we went over to give them the gift, we'd looked at Grandpa whilst saying thank you and therefore 'clearly weren't including HER in the thanks' and that was bad and wrong and how dare we yadda yadda.

What? Sorry, I thought, have I missed something?

Even if this was true (which it wasnt), is 2 days after Grandma died an appropriate time to start an argument?

So, that is the way that she manipulates my Grandpa, and the way he lets her, to the detriment of everyone around them.

It's a horrible illness and I wish it would go away, but I do wonder how much is the illness, and how much is simply, sadly, just her personality.

 

[cragmaid]

Hiya it's me again...Guess what.. my husband, like so many will occasionally answer the phone - he reckons it's never for him but I digress- and immediately hand the receiver to me so I reckon that bit is purely a man thing. Dad used to do it too. Keep warm, we're down to minus 4.5 last time I looked.x.

 

[trakand01]

Well.... I dont have all the details yet but the Memory Clinic people have been out this morning. Mum's still in the thick of it so can't talk right now but she's sent me a message saying 'Dear god, she's going to blow.' Apparently Mum is once again public enemy #1 and Mum fully expects to get lynched when Nannan gets back from the doctors. Apparently she's going for a blood test, I guess advised by the doctor that went with the memory clinic people this morning, and she 'insisted' that Grandpa go in with her. He's too scared of her to refuse so they've both gone to the doctors together.

I anticipate screams and fists when she gets home, but will have to wait and see what Mum reports later. I hope she misbehaved whilst the doctor was there so he could see the real situation but i've a funny feeling she was good as gold until they'd gone.

 

[trakand01]

that explains a lot

so, the doctor and the nurse came out from the memory clinic today, after mum called them earlier in the week. They asked nannan lots of questions about how she feels, if she remembers doing xyz ever, how she found staying in hospital etc to which she answered with answers about as far away from the truth as you could get.

Do you ever get angry or lose your temper? "oh, no, never.", she said. Anyway, the diagnosis (which neither she nor my grandpa know yet) is that she's psychotic... And needs medicating as such... I.m just relieved that something is being done and someone who can actually help is aware...