Grandpa in hospital today

[trakand01]

So my grandpa finally goes into hospital today, to have heart surgery tomorrow. I rang tuesday night to speak to them both, and grandpa answered which was nice because normally you can't talk to him - nannnan kicks up a fuss. I could only speak to him for a short while though because nannan was in the shower and he was anxious to get back to her.

So i rang again last night and spoke to them both. I think it's clear that nannan doesnt realise / doesnt remember that he's going into hospital today and i'm sure she'll be quite shocked and kick up a fuss about 'not being told' today when it happens.

She's going to go and stay at my parents' house whilst he's in the hospital (for a week at least) but i've no idea how that'll go down. I'm sure, again, that she's forgotten.

Mum has made arrangements to work from home / take compassionate leave / have holiday for the next couple of weeks but that's not ideal - I dont know if Nannan will appreciate the effort as I dont think she understands the sacrifice. Mum has a reasonably pressured job and it's certainly not ideal for her to not be in the office. She has a very understanding boss but that doesnt make it 'OK' if you know what I mean.

Fingers crossed for everything going alright tomorrow now, and that his recovery is quick and good. We're still playing the 'yes I know there's help available but i'm going to actively avoid it' game with him, although he DID go up to the Alzheimer's Society yesterday to fill in the forms for carer's allowance so that's something. Problem is, if anyone asked about HIS health, I'm 99% certain he'd have said "Oh, i'm fine, nothing wrong with me", with no mention of the open heart surgery he's about to go through.

Every cloud has a silver lining though - when I spoke to nannan last night, I only had 2 topics of conversation and they kept us going for about 15 minutes, over and over again

Wish us luck although this time it's not so much for the AD sufferer as her carer, my grandfather.

 

[Sunflower10]

Wishing your grandpa all the best and a swift recovery from his op. I hope your nannan settles in with your mum and that the situation is as stress free as it can be.

Your in my thoughts.

 

[BeckyJan]

I wish you ALL the luck in the world. I hope your grandfather's operation goes smoothly and that your Nannan does not find the change too disorientating. Its hard for your parents but I am sure you are a great support.

So my thoughts go with you.

 

[cragmaid]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a good outcome for all concerned..x.x.x.x

 

[trakand01]

Well, he went in last night. I say last night because although he'd got there at 2pm with Mum and Nannan, they didnt get a bed for him til gone 7pm. So as soon as he had a bed pretty much, they left him to settle in and came home.

He was scheduled to go down to theatre at 8am today, and we've heard nothing yet so I'm guessing that no news is good news in this situation.

New panic #1 though is that although the consultant said he'd be in hospital for 'about a week or so' (and all BUPA / NHS pamphlets i've read also confirm this), the anaesthetist yesterday said to expect him to be in hospital for 'up to 3 weeks'! 3 weeks... thing is Nannan is living with Mum and Dad whilst he's in and needs 24hr supervision. Mum's managed to work out a way of being there for about 10 days - to the end of next week, which we thought was when he'd be coming home, but I have no idea what will happen if he's in for another 2... Mum can't work from home for that long, I can't be there, Dad works more than full time anyway but yet Nannan will still need supervising...

Another development apparently is that my Nan wet herself in the hospital last night. She didnt know where the toilet was, and didnt ask anyone, so she wet herself... I am not aware of that happening before but of course it could have done and Grandpa probably wouldnt have told us. Not sure if this means she's worse than we thought or what. She woke up this morning saying she'd slept really well but according to Mum she was up several times in the night, wandering the house looking for Grandpa and crying. Apparently she smells of urine today (presumably because of the accident last night) but Mum's not sure how to approach it with her. Not sure if Nannan remembers where Grandpa is, or why. I think she's probably actually having the best time of it out of all of us - it's a blessing I guess as she'd be very upset and worried if she knew all the time...

 

[trakand01]

Can anyone offer any advice on this...

We went to see Grandpa last night, after his operation. We rang intensive care first and they said yes, it's fine to come, he's woken up etc.

So we went, me, Mum, Nannan. There's a strict 2 persons per bed policy so Mum and Nannan went in first, and I waited in the waiting room. Mum came back out after about 10 minutes and said I could go in, but just to say "hello, goodbye" and then bring Nannan back out because he needed to rest.

So I went in, to find Nannan wandering about looking for a nurse (there were lots of them, all over) because he needed to be sick. Basically he's retching up the anaesthetic. Anyway, Nannan and I stood just outisde the cubicle while he coughed and his nurse went to see to him.

He looked pretty grim, true, but I didnt expect anything else. He's off the ventilator - breathing for himself so that's great. He's still got monitors all over him but that's to be expected and I actually thought, for an 83 year old who's had heart surgery, he looked pretty good.

Nannan, however, had the shock of her life.

Mum had tried to prep her before hand, and the reason I went (at short notice - I wasnt going to go until tomorrow) was to give Mum a bit of support. But she just didnt expect him to look so poorly. She hadnt really understood what was happening to him anyway 'having some sort of operation' is about as much as she keeps saying but you know how AD sufferers are - they're fantastic at covering up bits they dont understand.

She was very upset on the ward, listening to him but I kept telling her 'don't worry nannan, it's just the anaesthetic he's bringing up, you know what it's like' and a lovely young nurse came across and told her the same thing. She was very upset...

Then I wasnt going to go across to Mums, I was going to go home because it's a 40 minute journey but mum looked stressed and nannan was very quiet so i went across for an hour or so. She was so upset. Crying, saying she didnt realise he was poorly and that she was scared. Kept reassuring her that the worst is done - he's come through the operation and is doing very very well, so now, every day he'll be better. Told her that yesterday was the worst he'd be, and he'd just get better now. She seemed to calm down a little bit and we even managed to get her to agree that 'if the hospital recommend it' (wink wink), it would be a really helpful idea to have someone come in and help him/her during his recovery, because she kept saying 'I just want him to get back to normal' so we told her that would happen quicker, with help.

So i left when she'd calmed down a bit, and had a bit of a giggle about my Nora Batty tights.

This morning though, my Mum says the first thing she asked was where grandpa was, she couldnt find him, had he gone away somewhere?

Seems she's completely forgotten, and i'm worried that a) she's going to get the shock of her life every time she goes to the hospital and b) when he comes home, she'll forget (overnight) how poorly he is and hamper his recovery by wanting him to do things that he shouldnt do (but knowing him, probably will try to do, to keep her happy)...

Any ideas on how we can keep her mindful of his condition inbetween visiting hours?

Sarah

 

[Christin]

Oh dear, I am so sorry to read your post. If I am honest with you I don't feel there is anything you can do. Of course, I don't know your nannan like you and your mum do, but my from own experience here there is little likely that your nannan will remember. Please please, get your grandpa some help.

For a long time we went along with everything FIL said, really to keep the peace and stop the arguements in front of our children, but there comes a time when you have to stand up and say enough. I can remember telling the SW that FIL got his own way all the time. Your poor grandpa is not going to be able to cope looking after your nannan while he is still in recovery. Perhaps that's why the hospital have said three weeks.

I small part of me wonders if its wise to take your nannan. I so wish I could offer you some expert advice.

I hope I am wrong and I do send my best wishes to you all. xx

 

[trakand01]

Hi Christin,

Thank you for your reply, and your wishes.

I also want to get help, as does my Mum, it's been my grandpa who's been so resolutely against it. Perhaps now though, he will accept a little help. He said to my Mum yesterday apparently "I didnt know it'd be like this", post-op. Perhaps some of his reluctance to have help has been from a complete underestimation of exactly how poorly he would be?

Mum rang the Cardiac Social Worker who's number is in the back of the pamphlet we've been given but apparently she couldnt have been less interested and hasnt offered any help or advice.

Regards taking Nannan to see him, I know what you mean and if she forgot everything (including him) it would be different but although she forgets where she's been / what she's eaten / who she's seen / what happened yesterday, the one thing she always has in the very forefront of her brain, is Grandpa. She's 110% dependant on him and has always been like that - they married on her 21st birthday and he's sheltered her from everything since then. I think not taking her will upset her even more...

 

[turbo]

Hello trakand001, I hope that your grandad is continuing to make a good recovery. Your comment about the Cardiac Social Worker's lack of interest made me so cross. That is her job and not only do you have a grandad who has just had heart surgery but a grandmother with dementia. I hope that there is someone else you can phone and say they must have put the wrong number on the pamphlet as the social worker wasn't interested.
Hope things will improve soon.

Turbo

 

[trakand01]

Thanks turbo, apparently the social worker wouldnt tell mum what services might be available, wasnt interested in hearing about nannan's dementia (even though it directly affects the cardiac patient) and simply told mum that when he went onto the high dependancy unit, she (mum) would have to talk to the nurses and tell them the situation, to make sure that he got an assessment when he came out of hospital.

On the other hand she said, if the nurses think that mum is available to care for him, they may not even push for an assessment at all.

So what are you supposed to do - not visit, or lie and tell them that you're not going to look after him?

Sadly I think mum has already gone past the point of being defeated by it all. Even though she knows what's available, I think she's already got it in her head that nothing will happen so she's not even trying. Frustrating, but as she won't let me ring the social worker myself, it's in her hands. She says things to the effect of 'my life is over for the time being, i'm going to end up doing it all myself'. It breaks my heart to hear her say things like that because she's not had the best 5 years running up to this, but at the same time i'm frustrated. There's just such a conflict of emotions.

 

[lin1]

Hard tho it may be If I were you I would contact the social worker myself, yes it may cause a row but id stil do it .

I hope your grandad makes a swift recovery
This is not an easy time for you all
xxx

 

[AlsoConfused]

All I can say really is that you have my heartfelt sympathy.

In your shoes though, I'd be inclined to do the utmost you can to get the help (eg from the Cardiac Social Worker) you as a family need, then 'fess up to your Mum about your "interference" later.

Tell your Mum that you've done this off your own bat, she had no part in the responsibility of it and if necessary, you'll apologise directly to your grandad if he's unhappy about your actions. Then give her a hug!

She'll probably dissolve in tears, thankful that at least some of the load has been lifted from her shoulders by her loving daughter. Even if she doesn't, your Mum will almost certainly forgive you for doing what she would have done, had she felt stronger.

You do have some good cards to play. The hospital can't discharge until there's an adequate Care Plan in place for your grandad. An adequate Care Plan for your grandad also means there has to be care / supervision for your grandma to stop her inadvertently sabotaging his recovery.

The weakest link here is sadly your Mum. Perhaps you can protect her by pointing out to the hospital and Social Worker your Mum has not been in the best of health herself (ideally get her GP to support you here) and cannot care for longer than she has undertaken, also she would put her [full-time!) job at risk if she needed to work at home for longer.

Ask for what you say to be recorded in the Social Worker's files and seen by the Manager; also ask for the same details to be recorded in your grandad's NHS notes. Ask for confirmation that this has been done.

Good luck!!

 

[trakand01]

Thank you for your comments, all very well received. I completely appreciate that I and my situation are probably quite frustrating to other people at times, it's so simple - just call social services! - but in reality there are things that i dont even have words for that make that not possible - boundaries I guess or something like that.

Anyway a small update, Grandpa is better today although mum heard the nurses say something in a concerned tone of voice about his blood urine, and then they took more blood to test. He's had a problem with his kidneys this year (in fact he was in for that when they found the heart murmer that has led him to be in intensive care today) so we're a bit concerned but no news is good news, we're assuming.

He seems to think that the man in the bed next to him is a woman called Jack, and that they must have moved her, if it's a man. Grandpa himself, is called Jack. I think it's the morphine playing tricks there He must have heard them talking about him (Jack) whilst over in the other bay perhaps? Crikey when you've got one grandparent with dementia it's so easy to ram all square pegs / symptoms into the same hole!!!

Anyway, thanks for the kind words and thoughts, I'll keep you updated if you're interested although I appreciate this is a dementia forum, not a heart issue forum!!

Nannan keeps asking why they're going to the hospital, is my Mum poorly, and looking around the house for Grandpa.

 

[trakand01]

quick update for anyone who's interested...

Mum, Dad and Nannan went to see Grandpa tonight, apparently he's seeming lucid, but talking through the morphine. There's another heart patient in the bed next to him (also called Jack). However, Grandpa says 'he's got big teeth and he's in here to have them taken out'... Ok... good old morphine. You have to laugh. He also thinks my Mum gave someone a lift home this afternoon (other than my Nannan, there was no-one). And he's the one who doesnt have AD

As for Nannan, apparently every time they get in the car to go to the hospital she goes very very quiet. Eventually she asks where they're going. Mum says they're going to see Grandpa in the hospital, and she asks why, so Mum explains (again). Apparently today she said "I can't remember anything..." which is a bit of a breakthrough, really, so Mum told her that we know, and it doesnt matter. I'm taking her on my own tomorrow so if the same happens, i'll reiterate it.

Mum says though that she's been utterly compliant since she's been staying with Mum, which is a bit of a miracle because according to grandpa, she's argumentative and difficult. We think perhaps he's antagonising her a bit...

 

[cragmaid]

Dear Trak, always interested so keep on with the updates. I spend a lot of time reading all the posts so that I feel I'm getting to know you all.I'm fairly sure that the morphine will be having a big effect on Grandpa, sometimes I think it would be nice to be able to see the world through drug softened eyes. Not that I want the dope you understand, just the different viewpoint. As far as Nannan behaving herself is concerned I think you might be right about her being better at Mum's away from her normal routine. I'm sure like most elderly couples, illness aside, the two of them will rub each other up the wrong way sometimes. Make sure that Mum arranges for a full assessment of Grandpa's situation before they contemplate letting him home because neither he, nor Nannan will need any additional problems once he is home. Hope you have a good visit today love Maureen.x.

 

[Onlyme]

We think perhaps he's antagonising her a bit...

Unfortunately that seems to come with the heart condition. I am not sure if it is the medication but those with heart problems seem to have very very short fuses.

 

[sleepless]

Hello, I've just caught up with your thread, -- hope your grandad's doing ok.today. I send my sympathy for all you're having to deal with.
It's usual for a crisis to bring it fully home to families just how serious the situation is with dementia, and I must say, this is a crisis. You have done wonderfully so far, but I think you know now that you need some outside help. Please don't give up -- you would feel dreadful if something went wrong while your grandparents were trying to look after each other (and with dementia, that's not really going to be the case...) so please, do what you know is necessary to help them. They will have put so much of their income into the 'pot' over the years, and if ever anyone deserved a bit back, it's your grandparents now. You and your mum can't let this situation affect your health too, or things will be worse.
Sending you my best wishes,
sleepless.

 

[trakand01]

update

Well, the latest is all very positive. Grandpa moved from intensive care to the progressive care unit on saturday, and was supposed to move to the normal heart ward yesterday but there was no spare bed so he's waiting for someone to go home.

He had all his tubes out apart from the catheter within 72 hours of the operation...! he's walked and had a shower by himself and a shave today, and they said his pulse was better after he'd walked to the bathroom than it had been before.

He's learnt how to text which at 83 I think is a bit of an achievement so he's in touch regularly. He's just rung to say he's feeling great today which is wonderful.

Nannan seems fine, she's actually quite compliant these past few days - hasnt refused to do anything, hasnt kicked up a fuss, or had any arguments at all. In fact the only time she seems to get a bit moody is when she's at the hospital, she sits very quietly and is what I'd refer to as 'funny' with people. I've a theory though that either she's scared of seeing grandpa with tubes on him, or else she's a bit put out that the attention isnt on her but we can deal with that.

xx

 

[trakand01]

I know there's no new posts on this thread but i'm going to leave you all an update anyway.

I dont want to jinx it but Grandpa is doing wonderfully. He had the op on Thursday, had his drain out on Saturday and was moved to a high dependancy ward. On Sunday he was meant to go onto a normal ward but there were no beds, so he stayed on the high dependancy, but that's not because of health issues so it doesnt count Sunday he had all his other tubes and pipes out, and yesterday he had his catheter out, walked himself to the shower room, showered and shaved himself. He was knackered with a capital k afterwards but that's to be expected. They've said that if his ECG is ok tomorrow, he can go home - 6 days after open heart surgery which is just wonderful.

Nannan is ok, she's staying with Mum and Dad and apparently yesterday whilst mum was working from home upstairs, she was laughing and clapping at the Vicar of Dibley so maybe we've found something she enjoys. She can't concentrate on a story for more than 30 minutes, so I think Mum is trying to get them a freeview tuner which records things, so she can have a ready supply of comedy tv to watch if it keeps her entertained.

The snow is playing havoc of course as Mum has to work, get nannan to the doctors and the memory clinic and to the hospital to have her heart monitor fitted which isnt easy with snow this bad. Dad's a driving instructor and has had to cancel lessons because of the snow which isnt good, financially but at least there's a bit extra help for Mum at home.

I've been struck down with cold so am firmly off the visitor's list because the last thing he needs when he's doing so wonderfully is a cold, and mum might not be able to go see him either with the snow. However, Grandpa is a very practical and sensible man and I think he's just so happy that he's recovering well that he's able to entertain himself in hospital and completely understands the lack of visitors - he used to drive for a career for years, recovering lorries that had broken down on the motorways so he understands the issues with bad weather.

Now, we just have to see what happens when he comes home, and what it's necessary for us to do as a family to help them through his recovery.

I actually think that although it's not ideal, Nannan staying with Mum and Dad has probably been very beneficial as she has been very compliant whilst she's been there, not really any trouble at all and so it's clear that the problems she causes at home with Grandpa, are NOT all down to her... We've been doing her an injustice by thinking that they were, it seems. She just needs handlign in the right way, but don't we all!?

sarah x

 

[sleepless]

Hello, Sarah, Glad to hear your grandad continues to recover.
The weather is causing everyone difficulties, but it's good he understands, as you say.
I think it's quite common for someone with dementia to seem to be 'easier' when they're away from the person who normally looks after them (especially a spouse) -- sometimes it's as if they keep their worst behaviour for the one they love most! But then again, your grandad's age, and heart condition, will have made it harder for him to be patient with your Nan.
I hope he continues to makes a good recovery, and all goes well afterwards.
sleepless.