no help for dad.

[sistermillicent]

Just heard five days post assessment that crossroads won't provide a carer at home for mum because we have to keep the outside doors locked as she is constantly trying to go "home". The carer would have had the keys of course. I don't know how to tell my dad.

Mum always accepts that the doors are locked and goes and sits down for five minutes before starting the rigmarole all over again. Reasoning with her is not an option as she has lost all reason and gets very very angry.

I don't know whether any agency will help now. I don't know that I can bear to start this all over again, but I suppose I have to. My sister didn't even ring me from Monday when I phoned her in tears of exhaustion from the last few weeks and she was too busy to talk.

Should I say that now is the time to step back and let my parents just suffer so much that the only option is a care home? I have been trying really hard and giving them priority for a year now, since mum got very bad, and we seem no further on.

 

[piedwarbler]

I don't understand why the carers needing a key is an issue? Sorry to act daft but is it because they might accidentally let her set off on a walk or something?

Doesn't it just make you want to weep, all the battling you have to do. Nothing is ever easy. Everything has to be fought for, tooth and nail. I really hope you get somewhere.

Try and take a day, maybe, to regroup your strength. You will find you regain your fighting spirit. I'm right behind you, brandishing a big frown, and folding my arms at them, to make them give you some support!

Grrrr! Tell them I said so!

 

[jenniferpa]

I assume they feel that by locking the doors they would be restraining her in some way? Seems exceptionally stupid to me, but what if you said to them "ok - you don't have to keep the doors locked". They would still be responsible for keeping her safe.

 

[lin1]

Hi
That sounds a bit strange to me
in a sort of way i can understand, like if there was an emergency and needed to get out quick, or may be they are concerned that mum will get out if they forget to lock a door.

maybe get back on to crossroads n ask why coz as I said it does sound strange.

 

[Vonny]

I think the rules for Crossroads may be different to a Care Agency. When we had someone from there for mum, she wasn't allowed to lift mum and was basically there to provide a sitting service so dad could get out of the house to go and shop or go up to the driving range or similar. She didn't get involved in any of the personal care either.

When we had carers in from an Agency, they lifted and hoisted mum and saw to her personal hygiene.

So Crossroads may have more rules about what their staff can't do? Just a thought.

 

[Jancis]

Sounds strange to me too??
Is it possible to have a special keypad entry system installed?
http://seniors.lovetoknow.com/Electronic_Door_Locks_Elderly

 

[Christin]

I am sorry to read that Crossroads cannot come to help your father. I don't really know anything about them as they don't operate in our area. I agree with PW, take some time to gather your thoughts and then try another agency when you have the strength. I am sure there must be a solution for this. The keypads sound like a good idea. Are they worried about fire risks, health and safety etc? There are so many rules nowadays.

best wishes to you xx

 

[lorrainet]

i really dont understand crossroads problem with the door, my dad had key box outside so crossroads sitter could get in lock the door behind her stay with my dad when it was time for her to leave she would unlock door to leave lock it and then put key back in box. hope this makes sense. there was never a problem. im wondering if they have different rules depending on the town you live in.

 

[together]

So sorry to hear of yet another hurdle.I agree nothing is ever straight forward, sorry I don't know what to suggest but I know you will battle on. Are there private carers that could help as an alternative, I know that's been suggested for us but still looking for details. I agree siblings aren't always the strongest support bit i know your Dad must appreciate all you do, in a quiet moment last week mine said I was the only child to understand, even tho I feel as tho I'm battling thro a fog and often useless as I can't provide any answers for him!
Take care of yourself. xxx

 

[sistermillicent]

thanks to all for this, the plot thickens. my Brother in law who is a gp telephoned crossroads and they denied that they had seen me or my mum.

I have been on the phone all evening.

My dad knows about this now, he is livid, and he has plenty of fight in him now. we are starting a campaign together tomorrow of phone calls and emails to all the people we feel have let us down, and who are still meant to be contacting us but are not doing so. I will be deliberately worrying them by requesting copies of complaints procedures, whether or not I actually complain is another matter, I really don't want to waste nhs money.
Brother in law has incidentally contacted the very agency I had lined up and he said was not necessary back in january when he recommended that dad should go the social services route because they knew best. Doesnt it make you want to scream.

Pied, I will keep that image of you with me tomorrow, I was feeling very pathetic, but not any more.

 

[susan jane]

Hi Like the others have said I don't understand the issue with the keys. We had a "keysafe" attached to the side of mum's front door it is a secure metal box just big enough for a couple of keys to fit in. I am sure they are used widespread - a semi retired policeman fits these in the West Yorkshire area but you can buy them yourself at DIY stores and have them bolted into the brickwork. I know how you feel with your sister I am the same but with my brothers. They help every now and again and then just vanish as if care is not needed every single day. I guess Im trying to say you are not alone which is exactly how I felt until I found TP. Take care Susan.

 

[jenniferpa]

I am reasonably certain that the issue with the keys is not access to them and thus not a keybox issue: it's to do with whether one person has the legal right to lock another person in their home. It's an area that in residential homes and hospitals that is dealt with under the deprivation of liberty safeguards, (dols) but these don't apply in a private residence.

I can actually understand where Crossroads is coming from: what you might do in your own home, they could be considered liable for. What I don 't understand is why, if this is a concern, they simple just do not lock the door in question. It may be that they have got themselves in an impossible position: they are potentially legally liable if they do lock the door, and also potentially legally liable if they allow your mother to leave, and have thus taken the position that they will not provide their services to anyone who might wander. A bit shortsighted one has to feel, but possibly understandable

 

[Grannie G]

Hello Pippa

Some carers services are less flexible than others. I had success with a private agency which I received Direct Payments to pay for in lieu of Crossroads.

I will send you the name of the agency I used which was excellent, if you wish. However I would not like to take responsibility for it in a different area. your dad would need to interview the manager himself to see what could be provided.

 

[sistermillicent]

I would like the name of the agency please, and I will see if it is operating in my parents area. I love the idea of interviewing the manager, I thought they interviewed us!!!!

I do understand about DoL, I have been investigating it because it was a big step to take to lock the doors, but actually it has made mum a bit better, we dont have any more fights about her getting out, she completely accepts that she can't just now. I have raised this with all the care homes I have visited, and some have looked at me quite blankly, some have an open door policy, and one or two have known all about the legal aspects.

I also realise that crossroads are actually within their rights to refuse to take on any client without actually telling us why, so there is nothing we could do about it even if we proved them wrong on this point. I wouldnt want anyone looking after my mum if they didn't feel ok about it.

As to safety, I use the old nursing habit of pinning the keys to me so that i have them on me all the time as soon as I set foot in the house.

 

[lin1]

Pippa
Go for it,
Odd that crossroads told B I L they hadnt visited , wonder if he phoned wrong branch , did the person that came show any identification.

 

[sistermillicent]

I wondered that too, my parents have a postal address which is different from the county they live in, but apparently he did ring the right branch. A few months ago when I tried to contact them the neighbouring branch told me that no one would cover my parents' village and that the branch was closed down. That turned out not to be true. It's not been a good experience.

 

[Izzy]

Good luck Pippa. Keep fighting!!

 

[sistermillicent]

Today I was phoned by the care home that we arranged for respite - one of the care homes in herefordshire has been closed down this week and there are now no respite beds in the area, and won't be for the forseeable future.

We are going to try to organise respite near either me or my sister, which is so far from where my parents live but seems like only option.

 

[Jancis]

Deprivation of Liberty (DOL)

Pippa,
I think I now understand the problem you have had with Crossroads. Well I don't understand but have some familiarity with the DOL problem.

I kept ranting on and on to Social Services to make it clear to them that my uncle wasn't happy in his nursing home and that he thought he was in prison and wanted to go home. Simple truth. I didn't think he should go home but I did think he needed a change of environment and more one-to-one holistic care etc. Which he can easily afford to pay for if he didn't qualify for such benefits.

Then after much ranting, letter writing, complaining etc about many issues the Nursing Home applied for a DOLS Safeguarding Application for my uncle. This was all very mysterious to me and it wasn't explained. I didn't ask the NH for a DOL enquiry.

Then I was informed that there had been an assessment of possible DOL and the outcome was that my uncle was not being deprived of his liberty because the external back door on the ground floor of the NH is left unlocked and he has not been stopped from trying to leave the building!

I can't believe I am writing this but it is absolutely true. And I have the forms stating that this is an official Case under the Mental Capacity Act 2005. My uncle is locked on the first floor of his EMI NH for goodness sake - there is no way that he could find his way down in the lift to the ground floor and locate the back door exit. He can hardly walk now, he is as weak as a kitten.

I am not even arguing about DOL for my uncle. Simply Deprivation of Care.
Sorry Pippa, I didn't mean to hijack your thread and am not helping you very much.

 

[piedwarbler]

Hi pippa, sounds like you are mired in red tape ... How exhausting. I've been in similar positions myself. Just to let you know I am following your thread with interest still and I'm still sending you frowns and strength to use when you need to, a bit like the magic sword in the Narnia film!! Xx