Financial Assessment

[wispa]

Mum has now been moved to a care home from the assessment unit.

She still thinks she will be going home again. I still have hourly thoughts in my head questioning if I am doing the right thing and wondering if she should go back home, although in my heart of hearts I know it would be a disaster, but it is heart wrenching to see the hope that she has when I know that it is not going to happen. I don't lie to her but I just say that it is up to the doctors and to see what they have to say, which seems to pacify her (albeit temporarily!)

As she owns her own home she unfortunately will have to pay for her care and an appointment has been made for a financial assessment.

In the meantime Mum's Social Worker has informed me that she has secured the 12 week deferment period and then after that there will be a charge put on the house and until it is sold the payment for her care will effectively be an interest free loan.

The value from her house is modest and will probably cover about five years of care at the maximum.

I am not sure what they need from the Financial Assessment as she is self funding anyway ?

She has some money in a current account (about £11,000) and a small savings account of about £ 7,000. - How will all this factor into her care if she is paying for it herself anyway ??

Will they possibly expect her to pay for her care straight away after the 12 week deferment with the money from her accounts, with the charge on the property kicking in when she has used up her disposable cash ?

I am now concerned that what she has in her current account /savings account will affect the benefits she is claiming ???

Any experience or knowledge anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

XXX

 

[Resigned]

Hi Wispa

My mother is also self-funding. As she had savings and owned her own home we didn't do the financial assessment simply to be told that she would have to pay the costs in full, we knew that.

I believe the savings limit is £23,500 after which you have to pay. As you know your mother has over this amount, plus her house, you know she will be self funding so you do not need to have a financial assessment.

My mother is paying nearly £3000pm, she is paying the most of all the residents in the home - it can't be right.

good luck with it.

R

 

[jenniferpa]

My understanding is that it is the (relatively) low level of her "liquid" assets that will trigger this assessment. For a start, if they weren't below the £23K, then she wouldn't have received the 12 week disregard (my mother didn't) and they wouldn't not pick up the care home fees until the home sold either. Just to reassure you, no, they will not expect her to deplete her cash assets in this situation.

I suppose I'm a bit confused: it sounds as if she's already had the financial assessment? If she hadn't, they wouldn't have offered the 12 week disregard etc. However, it may be just to give you formal notice of what is happening, rather than a formal assessment as the rest of us one understand it. In your position I would contact whoever is doing the assessment and ask, for example, what paperwork they need to see: if it's a real assessment they'll be asking for bank statements etc. Of course, it may be be that this is the formal part of assessment. That is: they've taken your word about her assets etc but now need to fill out the paperwork.

 

[wispa]

My mother is paying nearly £3000pm, she is paying the most of all the residents in the home - it can't be right.

As you say Resigned - It can't be right. I am so dismayed at the situation. After years of hard work by my Father and Mother to pay for their own house, it was all pointless. They should have spent the money on enjoying themselves and my Mum would be no worse off at this point.

Can you imagine the uproar if any other patient with a terminal illness was told they would have to sell their house to fund their treatment, there would be riots!!

To top it all and add to the guilt, my Mum is unaware that her house is to be sold to pay for her care. It is something I couldn't ever tell her as it would distress her terribly.


Thanks for your reply Jennifer....

I suppose I'm a bit confused: it sounds as if she's already had the financial assessment? If she hadn't, they wouldn't have offered the 12 week disregard etc.

Confused - You and me both. As you say I do not know why the Social Worker verbally informed me that the 12 week disregard had been agreed without any formal checking of her financial status having been undertaken ???

it may be be that this is the formal part of assessment. That is: they've taken your word about her assets etc but now need to fill out the paperwork.

I can only presume as you say this is maybe the formal part, or I thought that maybe it is because they also possibly have access to a recent assessment my Mum had from the DWP (6 months or so ago), which consisted of a Financial Assessment.

and they wouldn't not pick up the care home fees until the home sold either

Was this because your Mum's "liquid" assets were over the threshhold of the £23,000?

XXX

 

[jenniferpa]

Yes, she had liquid assets in excess of the then maximum. The 12 week disregard (and the possible interest free charge as well) is only for people who have less than that. Not even handed, of course, but what can you do?

 

[Nebiroth]

I am now concerned that what she has in her current account /savings account will affect the benefits she is claiming ???

It depends on the benefits your mum is receiving. The rules are different depending on whether people are self-funding or funded by the state (be that local authority, NHS, etc)

In general:

Attendance Allowance continues to be paid. As it is not means tested, the amount of money your mum has is irrelevent and so long as she is self-funding, she will continue to get AA. If not then AA stops because otherwise it would involve the government paying a benefit which it would then claw back right away.

If your mum has not claimed AA then this should be done right away.

Your mum's Pension will not be affected because it is not treated as a "benefit" as such. Your mum may also be entitled to Pension Credit - this depends on her income, but remember that savings are assigned a nominal income of £1 per week per £500 in savings above the £10,000 disregard. If savings are used to pay care fees then her combined income, that is actual income plus the nominal from savings may drop below the threshold below which she is entitled to the Credit. At one time people in care had a higher savings disregard but it is now the same for everyone at £10,000. AA is ignored as income for Credit purposes though.

Some other benefits will stop - such as Council Tax Benefit - because they are not relevent to someone in residential care.

 

[sleepless]

wispa,

My dad's situation is almost exactly the same as your mum's. (I find I must not get thinking about the injustice of hard-working, saving people being penalised in order to support some folk who have lived on benefits for most of their working lives and spent every penny of it.......don't let's waste our energy down that route)
As I see it, Dad was part-funded in respite because his savings, like your mum's, were between the upper and lower limits. But once care becomes permanent, the house is taken into account as capital, and they have to pay the full amount, after the 12-week disregard.
We have talked to our dad and explained it would be better to sell the house soon, (even an empty house costs money to upkeep) and he does agree, but it is not an easy thing to bring up, and I can sympathise with anyone who doesn't tell their parent. All cases are different -- maybe in time we will have to pretend his house is still his, who knows?
You have my full sympathy for the situation you find yourseves in -- I am there, too.
sleepless

 

[wispa]

Thanks Neobiroth

Attendance Allowance continues to be paid. As it is not means tested, the amount of money your mum has is irrelevent and so long as she is self-funding, she will continue to get AA. If not then AA stops because otherwise it would involve the government paying a benefit which it would then claw back right away

I was told the opposite only a few days ago and was told that I would have to notify them that my Mum was no longer at home and that AA would stop ???? - I couldn't understand how that could be as of all the times AA was relevant she certainly needs it now !

Your mum's Pension will not be affected because it is not treated as a "benefit" as such. Your mum may also be entitled to Pension Credit - this depends on her income, but remember that savings are assigned a nominal income of £1 per week per £500 in savings above the £10,000 disregard. If savings are used to pay care fees then her combined income, that is actual income plus the nominal from savings may drop below the threshold below which she is entitled to the Credit. At one time people in care had a higher savings disregard but it is now the same for everyone at £10,000. AA is ignored as income for Credit purposes though.

What a minefield this all is

I have also found that my Mum has not been cashing her Attendance Allowance and has nearly £3,000 of uncashed Cheques!!

Since becoming her appointee I have arranged for it paid directly into her account but does anyone know what the guidelines are in reclaiming the 'uncashed' Attendance Allowance' ??

Hi Sleepless

My dad's situation is almost exactly the same as your mum's.

-I have just said the very same thing in answer to your post about 'locked doors' in care homes!


XXX

 

[jenniferpa]

The information you have been given is correct in a sense. While she is receiving the 12 week disregard, AA stops after 28 days. However it will resume from the 13th week.

From Charging for residential accommodation guidelines (CRAG)

Type of resident: Residents who are receiving a 12-week property disregard,
are funded for that period by a local authority, and will
become self-funding from the thirteenth week or earlier if the
property is sold.

Effect on AA or DLA: Continues to be payable for the
first 28 days and will re-
commence from the thirteenth
week or when self-funding status
re-commences.