Alzheimers and Autism

[RustySaddle]

Hi, I was just wondering if anyone out there has found similarities between AZ and Autism, my daughter is Autistic and she has so many similar symptoms to MIL, social skills, inappropriate clothes for weather, personal hygiene, outbursts, forgetfulness, inability to process complex instruction. I read somewhere that if they find a cure in their research for AZ it could help greatly in Autistic children. I wonder if it's the same area of the brain affected?? Just interested really if anyone else has heard about this??

 

[Izzy]

Hi there. I haven't heard anything about links but I do see what you mean. In my school we have a base for pre school children with additional support needs. Over the years many of these children have been diagnosed as being on the spectrum. We have also had children on the spectrum in our mainstream primary classes. Whilst this by no stretch of the imagination makes me an expert I can see what you mean about the symptoms. Izzy x

 

[Sandy]

Hi Sarah,

One conceptual model that I have found extremely useful in this area has been developed by US psychiatrist Dr. Barry Reisberg. He has described how people with AD slowly lose life skills in the reverse order to how they developed from infants to young adults.

He's not suggesting that people with dementia should be treated like children, but that their individual skills and needs might be comparable to young children, but with access (though limited at times) to a lifetime's worth of experiences.

Here are a few links if you want to read some more about Dr Reisberg's work:

http://media.www.capahaarrow.com/media/storage/paper768/news/2006/10/25/News/Nyu-Professor.Speaks.About.Alzheimers-2383539.shtml

This link is to the website a woman (who is also a nurse) who has looked after her husband at home for some time. It contains a lot of first-hand advice from her as a caregiver. She has used the Reisberg model to provide her husband with activities that were within his range as his condition changed over time:

http://www.alternatecare.net/stages_of_alzheimers.htm

I suppose some people with dementia are in the process of 'un-learning' things that some people with autism have never been able to fully process/learn in the first place - hence the similarities.

Take care,

 

[RustySaddle]

Hi Sandy, yes the second link was very informative. My daughter is 10 but 5-7 as shes got Aspergers. MIL loves playing with her, by this link I guess she is stage 5. My son is 8 and he is very academic and probably 11-12 age group, so finds communication difficult with MIL, but does help her with Suduko. This has really struck me tonight, and I think I will ask her to join in when we do activities such as sticking and glueing and painting etc. It's been staring be in the face and I didn't pick up on it.

I have found some links in some science threads to AZ and ASD (autism spectrum disorder), but can't understand what there talking about, but the general train of thought is they are giving similar meds to autistic kids and dementia patients. One even said very positive things but cannot link it as not sure of source and might be a red herring.

Very interesting,

 

[MJW]

I posted something on this several months ago. Am pretty certain that my mother had/has Aspergers or something like it, and that actually made it harder to detect changes due to Alzheimers because so much of her behaviour was strange before the dementia. I'm convinced there is a link, but not being a scientist I suppose will just have to nod sagely when someone actually comes up with the proof.

 

[nicoise]

Interesting idea this; I have to say that I agree with MJW:

I posted something on this several months ago. Am pretty certain that my mother had/has Aspergers or something like it, and that actually made it harder to detect changes due to Alzheimers because so much of her behaviour was strange before the dementia. I'm convinced there is a link, but not being a scientist I suppose will just have to nod sagely when someone actually comes up with the proof.

as I have had the same thought about my mother; what she is displaying now is just a slightly more extreme version of her lifetime's way of behaving, but before you might just have thought her to be a little eccentric, or scatty - and as her family we were very used to her ways - others found it more difficult, and it probably contributed to her isolation and difficulty with friendships, despite being a very kind and thoughtful person, but never quite "on the ball".... Now of course, the resounding silence in terms of contact from the outside world ("The Invisibles!"), and stony faces of those waiting behind her in shop queues etc fortunately doesn't seem to be noticed by her (and I'm trying not to notice).

I'm used to dealing with dyslexia, and there are similarities in the way of approaching a problem - not head-on and direct, but in a more round-about way, which helps enormously in realising that you can get to a level of understanding (on both sides), but not by using the traditionally accepted "normal" route. And just because it's different, it doesn't mean that it's wrong.

Family members with autistic and dyslexic issues find my mother alright to deal with - there's definitely a level of understanding and tolerance displayed that is lacking in others!

I'd be interested to hear what others think along these lines?

 

[Sandy]

Hi nicoise,

what she is displaying now is just a slightly more extreme version of her lifetime's way of behaving

I think that many people would recognise that statement, perhaps especially in the early/middle stages of the disease as some of the 'unlearning' of social norms of behaviour start to ebb away.

A number of people have reported their loved ones making loud comments in public about some stranger's appearance (weight, hair, clothing, etc.) - just like a young child would do before they understood how those comments would be affect other people's feelings.

 

[RustySaddle]

Hi, I am inclined to agree, I'm sure there is a link in the brain of my Aspergers daughter to that of MIL in stage 5.

Daughter 10:-
Will wear jumpers in summer, summer dresses in winter
Wears same clothes over and over
Be abbusive (not intentionally) to strangers (i.e, she's fat)
Will smell food before she eats it.
Very fussy eater limited to a few foods
Zero communication skills,
Obessive and repetitive
Same questions over and over again
Not interested in keeping clean, wiping face, brushing hair
Always thinks about Me, I and myself no empathy
Very senstive will go off on one if not handled correctly

MIL 76:-
same
same
same
same
not same
not same
same
same
same
same

Humm,I'm sure this is so similar it gives me goose bumps. These are just a few examples. I basically treat them the same for their needs, always calm and clear in my communication. Also space and time to answer difficult questions. This might not be to do with memory but the other affects of AZ. Although daughter cannot process to much at one time. Remembers things from ages ago but not present day, also lies lies and lies. But TP made me realise that maybe she isn't lying just can't get the response out in the time wanted.....

There must be something in this, the same part of the brain, there's no cure for Aspergers, they just have to learn how to fake it.. I hope that maybe a educated person studying Autism and one studying AZ could get there heads together for a day...
and give me a seat

 

[PostTenebrasLux]

Hello Sarah,

Per chance my lifelong friend visited my cousin and I, along with her 21 year old son, deeply autistic since birth.
My cousin is at the very late stages of AD and is only able to communicate by screaming. She was asleep with the lad arrived but when she awoke screaming, he seemed to identify with her sounds and screamed back at her and their dialog was fascinating to witness for about 5 minutes. The modulation was interesting because it showed a level of "conversation" which brought out various sounds of comfort, reassurance and bonding. My friend and I were stunned at this "communion" as it was so unexpected and apparently between them totally understood.

Hope it make sense!
Martina

 

[RustySaddle]

That's amazing, I do understand and sometimes MIL and D have same kind of communication although not screaming, but off on some other planet only they know. Thank you so much for the insight and I don't believe it's some strange happening but I strongly feel it's something more Thank you for sharing that, MIL and D get on sooo well, there's something we don't understand and something maybe we never will, but it is isn't it???

 

[grove]

Autism and Az

My friend who cares for her Mum (dementia) and works with adults with Autism told me some research between the 2 probs.Had never seen the link before untill worker in E M I Home and worker with children with Autism .From Jill

 

[Soobee]

I really believe there is a link between ASD and dementia, probably just in the way the brain handles and processes information.

If we can use what we know about autistic spectrum disorders to help care for those with dementia - and vice versa - that would be great.