A mess! A mess - any ideas?

[izzie]

I am Attorney for my Mum (EPA). She has a husband of 17 years (my step dad), who, recently retired has decided that he wants full control over Mum. This includes finances. He has cut off contact and has brainwashed Mum to not want to see me. I havent seen her now for two months.

I have contacted SS, her Dr and Alzheimers. All say take it one step at a time. But I miss her so much. SS are finally looking into her depbt (which I have uncovered recently £20,000!) I'm finding it really hard to prove that he is brainwashing her because she idolises him. With the Dr she is saying she doesnt want to see me. Dealing with her finances now is so difficult without any contact. She shouts at me that she wants her money!

It must be difficult for her husabnd too, as I have control of his wifes money. But that's what she wanted.

I'm struggling now to stay strong. If the SS get into the house and meet with her and she is saying she doesnt want me in her life - and they say its her in best interest for me to stay away. Can they do that? I'm only asking for a couple of hours a week. But my step dad has shouted furiously down the phone that I will never, ever see her again!

What do I do? Any ideas?

 

[Jo1958]

Izzy, hello
Goodness you are going through it at the moment, I can't help but I can send a (((HUG))).
I was in the same position with my step-mother and had to walk away, had no contact with my father for 10 years or more, I was his executor and got a letter from his solicitor sacking me. When he was diagnosed with dementia and they needed help to get him out of hospital they contacted me and I went to help. I went but didn't give of myself, I gave my time, energy and experience for short and limited periods.
Take care, be as good to yourself as you can through this awful time.
Kind regards, Jo

 

[izzie]

O wow! Do you mean you got saked as Attorney by solicitor for your mum in law?

Now your dad has dementure and is in hospital?

I am very close to giving up. Its taken over every thought of the day. Life has just stopped.

People say, how can you give up on your Mum? But the AD seems to have given up on ME! And a very cruel, vindictive Step Dad.

 

[Jo1958]

Izzy, hi
My father's solicitor wrote to me to say that I was no longer his executor, as it turns out now, after his death in March, I am still in his will and have the duty of scattering his ashes which will be an expensive exercise for me in July.
Walking away isn't the easy way out, it's a terrible decision to have to make but for your own survival and sanity it is an open option that you can live with. That is what I was trying, not very well, to say.
You will miss your mother terribly but then you will anyway with this awful disease, you are in a no win situation so think of yourself.
Take care, Jo

 

[izzie]

O God! This is what has been going through my head day after day.

Shall I just submit and give in and pass everything over to him? I know its not what my Mum would have wanted. But AD has made her irrational and easily abused. He is after all her husband - but he is a hot headed, domenerring bully. But I cant seem to prove it. She has £5,000 in the bank and £20,000 of debt! It's not like Im doing it for any money at the end. Im not! Im doing it because I truly believe hs is abusing her. But I cant prove it.

I think the SS will side with him, cos she it doting on him and the mental capacity is of the moment! So if she doesnt want me, then I have to go!

Im so confused, so confused.

Thanks for listening. Really appreciate it. xx

 

[sharina]

Epa

Can you run me through the facts a little bit.

When was the EPA drawn up? Has it been registered with the court of protection? Why were you chosen not your step dad? Was he in the picture at the time?

 

[CaPattinson]

Mess

Dear Izzy what a nightmare for you. I can't imagine what you are going through. It is a mess and I really wish I could help but I can only pray that you get some help and things are sorted out soon. I'm sure everyone here has you in their prayers. I know its darn near impoossible but try to be strong. My thoughts are with you Izzy. Take care xxx Christine

 

[izzie]

Hi,
Wills and respective EPA’s were set up at the same time in line with their wishes (MUM AND STEP DAD), instructions and full understanding (September 2007.) Mums EPA was registered in November 2008, again with all relative parties’ knowledge and consent.

My Mum and I have been joined at the hip since my Dad's death in 1974. Mum remarried 10 years later. Mum and Step Dad have been a part of our daily lives up until 23.3.10! When my step-dad retired and decided to withdraw contact. He asked me to apply for the Higher Level AA as mum was soiling! I suggested he went to Dr as it could be diet or infection and Dr could help with HLAA too! He didnt like this and put the phone down. He has always been irrational, domenering and bullish. But Mum has always shared with me and we have got on with it.

We have always done everything he has asked: apply for LLAA, tax exemption, Disability badge, adminster medication, sort clothes etc, etc, the list is endless!

After cutting communication on 23.03.10., we saw Mum once more on the 30.03.10! But not since. They went to the bank and withdrew £5000 of Mums money in to joint a/c! Once we saw this, we acted and shut down all access to money by registering EPA with financial instutuions. To date we have found 6 Credit Cards totallying debts of just over £20,000! We have suecured minimal repayments on two cards so far, saving £211 per month. HOwever, getting money to Mum is difficult. He wants it put through letter box or a standing order to him. I wont do this. I have visitied every Tuesday, ready to give Mum some money, but he takes her out!

He has taken her to a solicitor and to date we have two letters from her saying we are not acting in Mums best interest as we are confuisng my wish to see Mum with her right to have her money!

What a mess!!

Now he has brainwashed her enough, so she is saying she doesnt want to see me, she just wants her money!

The OPG advised (although I know they are not supposed to!) that I take sundries on my visit to assist with her personal welfare and leave a bit of pocket money. I did this last week (spent £27 on tops, toothpaste, knickers, toothbrush, organge juice etc and left £20 pocket money!)

I feel awful.

He has not just told my daughter over the phone, that he wants her to know that things might get difficult next week, but he will never stop her talking to her Nan.

My sister and I have heard him shouting ' you will never, ever, see your Mother again!'

I have reported Dr - who was useless and SS. Social Services suggested I wrote in, which I did. Finally, the Safeguarding Vulnerable Adults Practiioner is investigating. I have had to send her a vast amount of information.

But now, in the quietness of it all, I miss Mum! I dont want to interfer if she is happy! But I'm just doing what I knwo she would want me to do. But the mental capacity act means her dicisions are 'of the moment' and that's the bit I cant get my head round.

It's such a mess!!!

Sorry to ramble. I feel I am goind mad! x

 

[sharina]

mess

I am not sure the debt is enforceable agsainst yor mothers estate as it would appear to be voidable.I think you could write to the finance companies explaining the position and that they would have to proceed against your step dad only.I think that you could try to recover the £5000 from their joint account.You could write to the bank and explain the position.Is the money spent?You have the EPA and he has to accept that.However is that really the issue?

To be honest it sounds like your mum and stepdad are in a bit of a mess.Were the debts caused by your stepdad wantonly gambling spending,womanising or drinking or were they caused by their normal living expenses? If so,they need the money to survive.


Whatever you think of your step dad he does look after your mother and deserves some credit.True it does not mean that he has a right to be an overbearing dominant man or whatever.However,my father could not manage and put my mother in a home.He loves mum dearly but it was too much and we fully supported this move.Your stepdad has got that as a possibility but he has not done so.My own father when he looked after mum would quite frequenly slam the phone down on me.On one occasion it transpired that he was stressed because mum had not eaten for two days.It was my birthday and I thought he would kill me he was so cross. I mentally sang "Happy Birthday" to myself.

I suspect if your mum ended up in residential care all your mums money would be eaten up.(bar £225000 or so)Do they own their own home?If so there could be a charge placed on it by social services which ultimately means less inheritence for you.

If your mother has become incontinent it must be putting a strain on him.Living with someone with dementia is a tragic nightmare.He is going to need alot of support in the next few years.She has a terminal illness.

There seem to be huge issues here:His retirement,the debt and her increasing deterioration.Why did he retire when there was debt?Did he need to retire to look after your mum? This whole situation could unravel fast with everyone becoming losers.

You are going to have to be on the same team as your(unpleasant) step dad.

From his point of view ,imagine trying to be rational and calm with a child(your mum) constantly asking for attention and needing things done for them.This is the position your stepdad is in and it could account for his behaviour even if it is inexcusable.The bear with a sore head comes to mind.

You want to see your mum and he clearly needs help and probably respite.There are lots of possibilities here.Someone is going to have to end this dispute now.It is unpalatable to contemplate but it may have to be you.

 

[Izzy]

Just sending kind thoughts from an Izzy to an Izzie. I'm so sorry things are like this for you. It must be incredibly hard. I have no words of wisdom. Just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you. Izzy x

 

[izzie]

This is not about my inheritance! Far from it! When she dies she will be in debt. She doesnt have any savings. Just that £5000 He has paid it back into her a/c. All her debts todate are paid monthly and up to date. We are trying very hard to reduce monthly payments and its been successful on two. Saving £211 per month. WE are trying to act in her and his best inetrerest.

I am happy to support, see and help my step dad. I am happy to meet with him to resolve it. But he wont meet and he wont speak with me. Its very hard to work a way through when they wont speak to you.

I want to help and support him and ultimatley my Mum, as she had always wanted. That's why the EPA was set up! But its back fired. He cant accept that.

I could role over and give up the EPA - I could. And if the officials say that is the best way I will. But he wont let me see her! And she doesnt want to see me.

So I guest what u r saying is the only way out is to give up. Give up the EPA and Mum!

I find giving up Mum so hard!

 

[Nanak]

Not sure how it works in UK but here in Australia if you give up an EPA the state takes over the finances, it can't be passed to another member of the family.
We came across this when my MIL needed to go into a care home. My SIL has EPA but her brother (my brother in law) thought he should have it, he hid the paperwork thinking he could say it was in his name. Once he was informed that wasn't the case it "miraculously" appeared!.
If your stepdad would be ok with that, wouldn't it be to your advantage?
It would be a horrible situation to be in. My stepdad is controlling also but he managed to wangle getting the EPA even though my Mum was already diagnosed. We are biting our tongues daily because he would do the same thing as your stepdad. Stop us from contacting Mum.
This disease is always so much more than the original diagnosis
I hope things can be sorted out for you
((hugs))
Kim
Mum 12,500 miles away

 

[sharina]

mess

Clearly you cannot give up your mum.Clearly you love her too much.I didn't think for a minute this was about your inheritance.

Ir sounds like he has issues.Try not to get too upset.He is clearly going through a bad time and you have become the baddie in his head.He in turn has convinced your mum (who probably does not know what she is doing.)

It sounds like you could be a saint and he will still find fault.If that is the cae,remember it's not you,it's the situation.He's retired,with debt and a wife with dementia.It's probably not the best way to enter old age.

Is he lashing out because he wants control of that £5000,(as I understand it that is the sum your mum has)is he lashing out because he knows it upsets you and gives him a power kick (stopping the contact) or is he lashing out because his life is a mess.His behaviour sounds like someone who is stressed out and venting on the nearest and dearest.He can't do that to yuor mum so you seem to be in the firing line.

Does he take good care of your mum? Does he still love her.Is her welfare at risk under his care?

If he looks after your mother well then he has a redeeming quality.If you both love your mum you have something in common.

 

[jenniferpa]

It really is a nightmare for you. Something that did occur to me - is it possible that he also has dementia? I recognize that he has always been on the difficult side, but at least some of this sounds like some thing else, although as Sharina points out, this could be the result of stress and caring.

Does he have any direct relative you could talk to? It might give you more of a handle on what is going on if there were.

 

[sharina]

Mess

Jennifer I am so glad you said that.it was going through my head.Something is up here and a third party is needed.

Can Social services arrange a mediator?Does he need his own carers assessment.

 

[izzie]

Thanks for all your replies, I really do appreciate it. Sharing kind of helps.

He is in some ways caring well for Mum, they go out to the coast and I think they eat well.

But it cant be good to be shouting 'you will never ever see your mother again' down the phone in front of MUm. It cant be good for her to be taken to a solicitor to go against her daughter with whom she has had contact with everydayoffor the past 50 years right up to 23.03.10!

I kind of want to give the EPA, but no that that is not a way through to my Mum! I still wont see her!
xx such a mess! xx

 

[Skye]

Hi izzie, I haven't contributed to your thread though I've been reading it, but it's completely outside my experience.

I have a thought now though. You could try contacting your local branch of Princess Royal Trust. They would support you, and advise on your options. They could also provide a mediator, if you think that would help. They are used to dealing with this sort of problem, so it's worth a try.

All the best,