Nursing home costs

[Kathleen]

My Mum is an an excellent secure EMI home which costs £460 a week for a shared room--- entertainment, chiropodist and hairdresser are extras, at approx £50 a month.

Her income from her state and tiny private pension plus attendance allowance coupled with a chunk of her fees paid by a grand-daughter who looks after her home and a small contribution from my sister and myself, who are far from wealthy, leaves Mum with a £400 per month shortfall.

Within a year the family home will have to be sold, her shortfall will be £1200 + per month, so bye-bye Dad and Mums dream of leaving something for their children and grand-children, the reason they bought the house in the first place.

They say God helps those who help themselves........ I'm glad someone does because no-one else seems to want to!

Am I bitter? Yes!

Kathleen

 

[noelphobic]

Hello,
What about the old people who have no kids who get dumped in a home and the Govt takes their houses. My heart goes out to them - denied a dignified end after paying taxes all their lives.

Got that off my chest then!

Keep smiling,
Ludwig

It's not only childless people who 'get dumped in a home and the Govt takes their houses'. Sometimes the children have to make the heart breaking decision to have their mother or father admitted to a home.

 

[Lynne]

Ludwig

It's not only childless people who 'get dumped in a home and the Govt takes their houses'. Sometimes the children have to make the heart breaking decision to have their mother or father admitted to a home.

I too object to the use of the expression "dumped in a home", especially here. Not everyone has large families to share the load.
Those carers who have been forced to make that heartbreaking decision have enough self-imposed guilt to deal with.

 

[Brucie]

My reading on ludwig's phrasing was that this was in the context of people with no family at all and that the so-called 'dumping' and asset stripping would be done by 'the state'. I'm sure someone can say whether this is a purely academic situation.

TP is a carer's resource and I hope none of us would ever talk of 'dumping' people other than in the context of something that was done by someone 'official' outside of family, if such things actually occur.

On a happier note, when I visited Jan today, as her home will provide lunch for carers, I phoned ahead to order a sandwich.

When I arrived I found a bacon and two fried eggs sandwich, plus a garnish of chips! Plus a cup of tea. All for £1. The chef there is a fantastic cook and snack maker.

I might eat there everyday!

 

[Amy]

Put your foot in it there Ludwig

Oh Ludwig,
You weren't thinking when you wrote that were you?
Now Ludwig, forgive me if I get this wrong, but I think that you were referring to people who have no carers, and social services make the decision for them to go into permanent care and their houses are sold for payment. People who have no relatives who will try and safeguard their assets. I think that the implication behind what you said was that Social Services will place these people into fulltime care , rather than exhaust other avenues of care, because they know that they can sell the house to pay for it.
And if that is not what you meant Ludwig, then I too will start putting pins in an effigy
Love,
Amy

 

[noelphobic]

My reading on ludwig's phrasing was that this was in the context of people with no family at all and that the so-called 'dumping' and asset stripping would be done by 'the state'. I'm sure someone can say whether this is a purely academic situation.

On a happier note, when I visited Jan today, as her home will provide lunch for carers, I phoned ahead to order a sandwich.

When I arrived I found a bacon and two fried eggs sandwich, plus a garnish of chips! Plus a cup of tea. All for £1. The chef there is a fantastic cook and snack maker.

I might eat there everyday!

Whether the family or the state have someone admitted to a home the asset stripping is still the same.

I might join you for those regular lunches! Sounds like a great place if you can phone ahead to order lunch!

I remember when we 'dumped' my mum in her first care home. After she had been there about a week I went to see her and she was like a zombie! The staff thought that she was 'fine' but they didn't know her. I phoned my sister and we both stayed for about 8 hours, most of them waiting for her GP to come. It was only toward the end of that time that we were even offered a cup of tea! I don't know why it took us so long to see the writing on the wall!

Her new home does have a little room where relatives can make a cup of tea. They also have occasional themed evenings that relatives are invited to, the last one being Burns evening and it was done very well. I've even heard a rumour that there's a relatives's association!

 

[Amy]

Hiya Brucie,
You sneaked that one in when I wasn't looking - I think we said the same thing, but as always, you said it all technical like, and I didn't. I didn't copy, honest! Right, I think all references to "dumping" (that word has all sorts of connotations! ) should be stopped.
Amy

 

[Tender Face]

Hi Redlester!

Redlester: I think ALL care should be state funded and we should be taxed whatever the hell it takes to do that.

Can’t agree more! The day we see care as ‘needs tested’ and not ‘means tested’ will be the day I am satisfied to say I live in a true ‘welfare state’! (And that includes the rich not being ‘penalised’ for accumulating wealth because of the misfortune of ill-health. Why should someone be forced to pay just because they can when others are ‘provided with’ because they can’t?)

This b****d (was that enough ****s?) disease seems to be as indiscriminative as any other. I thought we lived in a society which celebrated ‘diversity’ – until someone gets sick…. and then some are not so diverse as others…..

 

[Tender Face]

Jacqueline Wilson!

My reading on ludwig's phrasing was that this was in the context of people with no family at all and that the so-called 'dumping' and asset stripping would be done by 'the state'. I'm sure someone can say whether this is a purely academic situation.

Far from academic..... but here's my offering.....


Anyone watch (or enforced to watch) Tracy Beaker with their children/grandchildren? (UK TV children's 'primetime' based on the books by Jacqueline Wilson). For those who haven't, or don't, or haven't got the books, would never dream of doing, or am starting to wonder what planet I am from the kids call their home the 'Dumping Ground'.

That's how the kids feel. Dumped. They are desperate to be with their natural parents/placed with long-term foster carers etc etc but for some reason or another, it is felt 'in their best interests' at the time to be placed in a (residential) home until something 'better' comes along (or doesn't) in which case, they are as best looked after as they can be in the meantime. Someone else has had to make that decision, but generally, even if it was 'professionals' decision, it would have been taken in their best interests.

I hugely support the view that the loved ones we are concerned with here are NOT children, but just as we strive to treat children in an allegedly caring society, their best interests are sometimes actually better served away from their families.

I am particularly sensitive to certain issues which may not make others 'bat an eyelid' - to one person a phrase may mean nothing - another I might take ridiculously personally when it is not intended to be.

So, some words may be deemed 'objectionable', 'insensitive' - I've probably gaffed a hundred times already. But they are words. If we start to apply censorship, then we apply discrimination of another person's feelings and their way of expressing themselves and seeking support??????

 

[Amy]

OK Tenderface, I agree no censorship, and that is not what I intended when I said use of the word "dumping" should be stopped. It just strikes me that people are being offended by something that was not intended, and I know if I had made a bit of a gaff on a post I wouldn't want people to keep harping on about it. So that is the last I will say on this subject. (If you're lucky)
Amy

 

[Tender Face]

How can people be offended
By something which was not intended?
When it was never intended
That people were offended????

From my perspective, (watch me now, careful about every word!!!) the ‘richness’ of this site is that we are all here with a common bond which is to support each other and those we are caring for. We all come here with different backgrounds/cultures/ experiences/preconceptions/misconceptions etc etc. We also each come with different ‘language’ whether because of our education, our up-bringing, local dialect/usage etc etc. (How many times can I say ‘etc etc’ without annoying anyone??? )

In a sense it was good to see such reaction to one word – to me so innocently used by the writer – but so ill-received by some readers. In itself, that to me is what TP is all about – seeing others’ perspectives…… but to think we have to be sweetness and light and politically correct and conscious of every other member’s feelings (how many???) every time we post is oppressive if not impossible….and defeats the whole object of the forums????

Tell me I’m wrong. (Amy, I’m sure you will!) Huge hugs!!!!

 

[ludwig]

It's not only childless people who 'get dumped in a home and the Govt takes their houses'. Sometimes the children have to make the heart breaking decision to have their mother or father admitted to a home.

Sorry I have been misunderstood here and have not been back to TP since I posted my 'dumping' note.
I was referring to old people who have no one to look after their interests and make sure they get what is best for them. The state simply does not care whether a home is suitable or not, in they go and the state takes their assets. It seems to me that the driver is getting the assets/minimising cost & inconvenience (eg bedblocking in hospitals) to the state, with all the lack of dignity, real care etc that that entails. That is the issue I was raising.

There will always be situations where it is best for someone to go into a home because of the relevant circumstances, BUT where they have caring relatives they ensure that the home is suitable and that its in the best longer term interests of the people concerned, that is not dumping in any sense.

That is the next stage with my mum (mid stage dementia), we have paid part time carers in place, but she will eventually need full time care and that will almost certainly involve a home. We are fighting like hell to keep her in her own home for as long as possible but it isn't a long term solution. We, like lots of you have done, will look carefully at homes when the time comes and will do our best to find one that will give her the care she needs. That will not be dumping.

I hope that clarifies things!

Keep smiling,
Ludwig

 

[Amy]

Oh, you are safe Ludwig, I can put the pins away!
Love
Amy

 

[Lynne]

Oh dear Oh dear

LUDWIG,
Please accept my apology for expressing a "knee-jerk" reaction 2 days ago, since when I haven't been on TP, or I would have back-pedalled sooner!
Yes, the phrase in question caught me on the raw, but I didn't intend to start a furore about it, or discussions about censorship, or make it personal.

I am in no doubt that I have used poorly thought out words on occasion myself, and even raised inappropriate questions & subjects. Hey, I'm human too. The beauty of TP is that we shoudl all be able to say what we need to, how we need to, and I wouldn't wish it to be othersiwe

Sorry everyone, really.

 

[Amy]

OK Lynne, you have grovelled enough there. Get up off your knees now!
Love
Amy

 

[Tender Face]

OK Lynne, you have grovelled enough there. Get up off your knees now!
Love
Amy

Might one add 'and get them jerking again'? (Joke, honest!)

Sometimes it is the knee-jerk reaction which tells so much - keep them coming, Lynne (and everyone else!).

So many here (self included) seem to 'worry' about causing offence to anyone (including intended 'joke' above!) - we've got enough worries, surely, without taking that on board too?

Ludwig and Lynne, especially, this thread has really made me think (makes a nice change!) - someone actually asked me today if I was going to 'put' mum in a home. I could have throttled them! "She's NOT a piece of crockery needs to be 'put' somewhere".

I have been brought up with the phrase 'putting people in homes' - it's never occurred to me before that the phrase could suddenly charge up so much emotion and what it actually means to families.....and, very selfishly, that I may be faced with it.....

Anyway you may or may not be pleased to know I am out on bail (kidding!) - no throttling - I thought of this thread and smiled instead! (I find it amazing how many times during a day I can recall something someone has 'said' on TP and it helps me deal with a situation better than I would otherwise).

Thanks all! Hugs, Tender Face

 

[ludwig]

Lynne,
no apology necessary. I was horrified when I came back to TP and saw how my note had been misinterpreted.
I feel very strongly that the state is avoiding its responsibilities with old people and where they have no caring relatives they can suffer badly because my perception is the state is only interested in the money side. There are, of course, many caring people in the S Services for example but they seem to be steam rollered by the state financial machine.
I repeat that my heart goes out to old people who do not have relatives who will stand up for them and do their best to ensure that care is appropriate and the best that can be done in the circumstances. These poor old people are confused and alone and can even be denied their dignity at the end of their lives.

In one sense (and perhaps only one sense) the people we care for are fortunate in that we are muddling through doing our very best for them even though (perhaps speaking only for myself) I will inevitably feel horribly guilty when it ends. It really is a no win situation. It can be so stressful that it is little wonder that people reacted as they did.

For the record I would never criticise a carer for a decision to put their relative in a home. We all have this horrible, guilt ridden road to travel and we all have to make heart rending decisions based on our own circumstances. It is not for me to criticise anyone, I'm in this hole too!

Keep smiling,
Ludwig
PS Amy, thanks for at least checking before wielding the pins!

 

[sunshine]

Putting someone in a home

I keep reading this phrase about putting someone in a home. Last week I took my father to a home. I haven't slept since as all I can think is that far from putting him in a home, I took him from his home, his home that he had spent his life working to pay for and worked hard to maintain and a garden that he loved. That is his home. Where he is now does not qualify for the word home. Unfortunately the rest of my family dont care where he is now as long as he is out of sight and haven't even bothered to phone to see how he is. One brother lives opposite his nursing and hasnt got the time, he says, to call in for a 5 min visit. Another brother felt that threatening to knock my dad out if he continued his upsetting behaviour would soon teach him to behave!! (am I really related to these people?) One of the reasons I had to take this drastic action was to ensure my fathers safety, and now visiting him, he cant even get outside to walk round the gardens.

I am glad to have found this site. this is my first posting, more to follow I suspect!

Feeling very sad

Sunshine

 

[Amy]

Hiya Sunshine,
I do have some idea how you are feeling, as my mum had to go into a Nursing Home in January.
You have done what you have to, to ensure that your father is safe. As the weather improves you will be able to take your dad out in the garden. Nursing Homes are not ideal but sometimes we have no choice, and I think that we have to make the conscious choice to make the best of a bad situation; to make it the best home that we can.
Your brothers - well I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say that they are obviously having great difficulty accepting your dad's illness.
I'm pleased that you have joined us on here, post when you are ready.
Amy

 

[ludwig]

Sunshine,
dont feel bad, you care and have done your best and can do no more. If you have taken the only realistic alternative you have, then you shouldn't feel guilty. Easy to say I know!

This will be the next stage for my Mum. She can not be given the 24 hr care she will ultimately need in her own home, so we will travel the same road as you have, and I have no doubt will feel just as bad as you do. My two sisters and I already feel guilty all the time but we are in the fortunate position that we all work together to muddle through as best we can. Currently we can cope with some paid carers and my Mum doesn't need 24hr care yet.

The situation we all share when dealing with A/Dem is simply a no win one. We all muddle through as best we can, at least on TP you can talk to people who understand these horrible diseases.

Keep talking, I'm sending you a special hug and hope it helps.

Ludwig