Advice needed about who pays for care

[heyjude]

I can imagine this has cropped up many times so I will try to be specific.
Before my mother in law got dementia she signed her small ex council home over to my husband, this was about 3/4 years ago, he had always paid a lot for upkeep etc of her home. (no proof - but why would you?)
When things got worse especially her paranoia around my husband we walked away, his health suffered as a result of her dementia and he almost lost his business (he is self employed).
Social Services have looked after her well for the last 18 months in her own home.
Now things have gone down hill, she has had to in to respite and in respite she has become violent but things really came to a head when she tried to strangle another resident last week, she has been moved now to an NHS unit to be assessed (she has attacked a doctor there too), the decision for her not to come home had already been made by Social Services.She is staying in this unit now to be assessed.
I think we will have difficulites getting an EMI home to take her.One I visited today they said no.
She has very little in savings and we are waiting for some one from Council Finances to call us, Social Services employ a company currently to deal with her bills and pension, so they know more than we do.
Can they make us sell the house to pay for her care?
Is there anything we can do to prevent this or minimise the impact?
Do we need a solicitor to advise us? Are there any recommendations?
Her house would probably only pay for 12 months care at the very most, she would be devasted if she thought her hard work had gone to the government.
Someone told me today that while she is with the NHS there is no charge but surely this all boils down to the fact that the NHS should pay end of story to look after her and if she needs one to one care that is what she should get, she is getting this currently on this unit.
I would love to hear from personal experience about how other have gone on.
Thank you.

 

[Natashalou]

this is kind of in two parts. Firstly she needs to be assessed for continuing care and if she qualifies for that the NHS will pick up the bill. Its very hard to get funding but not impossible.
If she doesnt qualify then she will be means tested. If she signed over her house that long ago, three of four years, I dont think it would qualify as a deliberate deprivation of assetts to avoid fees especially if her problems are recent.

Therefore , she /you should not be expected to sell as it is no longer her assett.
The responsibility then changes from NHS/PCT when CC is refused to SS funding care.

 

[Nebiroth]

A lot depends on the circumstances of your MIL's admission to hospital and her subsequent discharge.

Do you know if she was "sectioned"? If she was it was lmost certainly under Section 2. If she is kept in hospital for more than 28 days, that would be under a Section 3. Obviously, the entire cost of her care whilst in hospital would be paid for by the NHS.

The crux would be her discharge - if she is discharged under a Section 117, this means that she would remain effectively a hospital patient (although not necessarily in a hospital) then the entire cost continues to be met by the NHS. Someone who is discharged whilst under Section 2 (assessment) doesn't qualify but someone who has been under Section 3 does.

As to the property, there is no limit to the period of time the local authority can go back and consider something a "deprivation of assets". Normally, however, the younger and fitter the person was when they gave away/spent the asset, the less inclined the authority will be to consider it a "deprivation".

You don;t say whether you live in the house. If you do then although it is not mandatory to disregard it (as it would be if your MIL's husband/civil pertner lived in it), the authority certainly has discretion to do so. Moreover, it has a legal duty not to render anyone homeless - mostly because it would then be bound to house them at the authority's expense.

Unfortunately, it's really not possible to give absolute answers because a lot is left down to the authority's discretion. If your MIL's husband/civil partner lived in the house it would be absolutely safe.

 

[heyjude]

Thank you

I realise it is not straight forward but you do give me some hope.
We do not live in the house.
No one has used the term sectioned yet, should I ask the hospital, I do not feel I have a good relationship with the Social Worker.
She has attacked a Dr too whilst being admitted.
She does not eat,now weighing 6 stone, she has little or no speech is on a variety of medication she is uncapable of taking herself, the hospital say she will be 'in a few weeks'for assessment so this would be Section 2???.
It sounds like I need to pay careful attention to what they are doing if we are to get them to pay.
She is a danger to herself and others clearly, for all her faults as a human being (historically) to know she is like this is terrible.
I have today read the document for assessment and she scores A's on a lot, but I am sure you will tell me this does not mean a lot at the end of the day.

 

[Nebiroth]

It sounds as though your MIL was admitted under a Section 2. But you would have to ask to make sure.

Normally, however, the "nearest relative" (the order of which goes spouse then children in age order, etc) would have been notified of this because they can object.

 

[1948NHSBaby]

Not Depravation of assets

Heyjude

Enclsoed below extract from 2009, charging for residential accommodation DoH doc:-

Timing of the disposal

6.064 The timing of the disposal should be taken into account when considering the purpose of the disposal. It would be unreasonable to decide that a resident had disposed of an asset in order to reduce his charge for accommodation when the disposal took place at a time when he was fit and healthy and could not have foreseen the need for a move to residential accommodation


According to Mike Pearce, AS helpline team, this could apply to just 1 day prior to for instance a Stroke.

The general Council rule of thrumb is 6 months.

If the property was transferred 4 years ago, it would seem on face value, that the council can do nothing about that and the property is to totally disregarded.

 

[heyjude]

Thank you

I have checked all our paperwork and prepared a list of dates.

The only date missing now is the date of diagnosis and then we have a full picture.

My apologies it is 3 years not 4, but we know for certain she made the appts with the solicitor and followed it every step of the way, she was fine then, so I feel more confident that there was no deprivation of assets.