hi all, its nanook again. Just needed to get my thoughts down as I am feelng really sad and shocked today. Visited Neville today, he semed much better and looked clean and tidy. Went out for long walk with family and returned feeling quite bright. I was then asked to go to the office where I was told that Neville had been behaving quite out of character, not sleeping at all during night, wandering the corridor knocking on doors waking the other residents, all ladies incidentally, even going into one room and frightening the occupant. Asking to go out to draw money out, in middle of night and getting aggresive when told he must wait till morning. He was always very particular regarding personal hygeine but now refuses to shower and when persuaded to, showering fully dressed. This came as a real shock as yu can imagine. Hiding his drinks under bed, trying to move furniture all during night so the carers are not getting any sleep. I am hoping that his GP may sort this out but I must wait for this. Sorry to ramble on but just needed to pour it all out. I suppose this is whats called next stage but it seems to be happening rather quickly and its difficult to come to terms with. Thanks for listening, Nanook.
is this the next stage?
- Thread starter nanook
- Start date
Hello Nanook
I am glad that you had a good walk and came back feeling brighter but sorry that it was followed by this news from the care home. I have no experience but I know other TP members do and will be able to offer helpful advice I am sure.
This must all be a worry and a shock to you but the home will be used to it if they are used to dealing with people who have dementia.
Offering you a (hug) and I hope you get the support you need.
Love
I am glad that you had a good walk and came back feeling brighter but sorry that it was followed by this news from the care home. I have no experience but I know other TP members do and will be able to offer helpful advice I am sure.
I would like to say that the carers are not there to sleep Nanook!
This must all be a worry and a shock to you but the home will be used to it if they are used to dealing with people who have dementia.
Offering you a (hug) and I hope you get the support you need.
Love
I was also going to say that .
I know it must be very distressing to be told all that happing to Neville, but please reassure yourself that those are normal symptom of a Dementia , as my mother has also had those symptoms while living with me and my children . Wondering in out of our rooms, turning the light on in my daughters room, or just standing at the end of their end, would got very aggressive when we told her to go back to bed. The only way around it was to guide her to the fount room chat with her, make her cup tea .
Dear Nanook
I think alot of this kind of behaviour is a result of medication. Does Neville have a good GP? Mum's had her medication changed so very much over the years - at the beginning, I begged the doctors not to put her on too much medication and the CPN at one time got quite difficult with me, thinking I was telling them what to do. Have read comments in medical notes to that effect, but thankfully also read comments from the Consultant stating that he understood where I was coming from and that I didn't want Mum on any unnecessary medications. This kind of helped but it's not nice reading these records at times. Mum's gone from being hyper to over-sedated.
Anyway, strangely, Mum's current GP has spent the last 6-9 months getting Mum off of all of the psychotic drugs - in fact she is on no medication at all at present - which is good but it does make me wonder what would have happened if they'd just laid off all drugs after Dad died and at least tried to stabilise her with her depression. I know she has AD but with Dad, it was proven to me the problems that drugs can cause. Mum's memory is shot, but she is kind of settled in the locked home she's in - she does still try to "get out" and then get annoyed that she can't, along with others - and in a way it makes it harder to understand this flipping disease but...........
By the way, the Care Staff are being paid to Care, not sleep. know it makes their job harder when patients are going through difficult phases but it's up to them to adjust to the patient - it sounds like Neville's sleep pattern has been messed up. I hope he settles down soon. Does the Home keep you in touch with changes in medication - it's quite useful to know so you can help to identify any good and bad effects.
Sleep tight.
Ellie
I think alot of this kind of behaviour is a result of medication. Does Neville have a good GP? Mum's had her medication changed so very much over the years - at the beginning, I begged the doctors not to put her on too much medication and the CPN at one time got quite difficult with me, thinking I was telling them what to do. Have read comments in medical notes to that effect, but thankfully also read comments from the Consultant stating that he understood where I was coming from and that I didn't want Mum on any unnecessary medications. This kind of helped but it's not nice reading these records at times. Mum's gone from being hyper to over-sedated.
Anyway, strangely, Mum's current GP has spent the last 6-9 months getting Mum off of all of the psychotic drugs - in fact she is on no medication at all at present - which is good but it does make me wonder what would have happened if they'd just laid off all drugs after Dad died and at least tried to stabilise her with her depression. I know she has AD but with Dad, it was proven to me the problems that drugs can cause. Mum's memory is shot, but she is kind of settled in the locked home she's in - she does still try to "get out" and then get annoyed that she can't, along with others - and in a way it makes it harder to understand this flipping disease but...........
By the way, the Care Staff are being paid to Care, not sleep. know it makes their job harder when patients are going through difficult phases but it's up to them to adjust to the patient - it sounds like Neville's sleep pattern has been messed up. I hope he settles down soon. Does the Home keep you in touch with changes in medication - it's quite useful to know so you can help to identify any good and bad effects.
Sleep tight.
Ellie
re: medication and changes in behaviour.
HI, thank you once more for replies and suggestions re my awful visit yesterday. Yes I do think medication is a possible cause at present and I did explain this to the staff as Neville has always had a strong reaction to any changes. However, as he is now with another GP due to the change of address and area, the new GP decided to give him all his medication in the morning despite one of the tabs is specifically to help him sleep, (not a sleeping tab but more a calming tab). The staff told me that Neville had refused to take any meds in the evening so this was the course they were going down so I really couldn't do or say anymore. They will just have to deal with it. (I didn't sleep well last night either!) I am now going to to my daughters for lunch so am looking forward to this. Will no doubt be back on site later this pm as snow is forecast here again! Many thanks again, love Nanook.
HI, thank you once more for replies and suggestions re my awful visit yesterday. Yes I do think medication is a possible cause at present and I did explain this to the staff as Neville has always had a strong reaction to any changes. However, as he is now with another GP due to the change of address and area, the new GP decided to give him all his medication in the morning despite one of the tabs is specifically to help him sleep, (not a sleeping tab but more a calming tab). The staff told me that Neville had refused to take any meds in the evening so this was the course they were going down so I really couldn't do or say anymore. They will just have to deal with it. (I didn't sleep well last night either!) I am now going to to my daughters for lunch so am looking forward to this. Will no doubt be back on site later this pm as snow is forecast here again! Many thanks again, love Nanook.
When my mother started to have those symptoms, my mother was not on any Ant psychotic medication at
all.
Its good to read that you took your mother of those medication,does your mum sleep now during the night?
Yes like my mother since she had this Demetria. How long has Neville been in the care home ?
all.
Its good to read that you took your mother of those medication,does your mum sleep now during the night?
Yes like my mother since she had this Demetria. How long has Neville been in the care home ?
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Hello Nanook:
It is surprising how similar your husband sounds to mine!
David has been in a NH for around 8 weeks. He has been awake at night, shouting and wandering (in theory he cannot walk
).
He has been into room 23 and room 26 (he is in 24) - they are lovely old lady residents!! He shouts loudly and keeps other residents awake! He falls nearly every night. He is on promazine but the Doc is not happy at keeping him on that so Mental Health Team are to be called in
Last night he apparently slept through after a terrible day when I thought he was dying!!! Today he has been bright, eaten well and even tried to play the piano.
In D's NH the night time carers patrol the premises so visit each resident at least every hour. (Friends who have been there with relatives overnight say this is true). My David must upset that routine somewhat but all seems well. Although I am interested in the medication I am trying to rely on the judgement of experienced nurses and the new GP.
It is still early days for your husband's readjustment.
I do hope soon you can feel more relaxed about it - it is far from easy and I do empathise.
I am so pleased you can share your thoughts here and I hope it helps.
Love Jan
It is surprising how similar your husband sounds to mine!
David has been in a NH for around 8 weeks. He has been awake at night, shouting and wandering (in theory he cannot walk
). He has been into room 23 and room 26 (he is in 24) - they are lovely old lady residents!! He shouts loudly and keeps other residents awake! He falls nearly every night. He is on promazine but the Doc is not happy at keeping him on that so Mental Health Team are to be called in
Last night he apparently slept through after a terrible day when I thought he was dying!!! Today he has been bright, eaten well and even tried to play the piano.
In D's NH the night time carers patrol the premises so visit each resident at least every hour. (Friends who have been there with relatives overnight say this is true). My David must upset that routine somewhat but all seems well. Although I am interested in the medication I am trying to rely on the judgement of experienced nurses and the new GP.
It is still early days for your husband's readjustment.
I do hope soon you can feel more relaxed about it - it is far from easy and I do empathise.
I am so pleased you can share your thoughts here and I hope it helps.
Love Jan
Jan
Fingers crossed that David is okay. Time we had that coffee.
Nanook and others, yes the night staff are not there to sleep but they perhaps have 30 residents to keep an eye on, and if one is disturbing the others (as my mum did) it takes up their time, and other residents are perhaps neglected. We must remember that some are incontinent and need their pads changing in the night. Plus, I know that night staff in mum's home were also responsible for sorting the clean laundry for the following day. Mum's home had two "waking staff" which was good, some only have one waking and one sleeping in case of emergencies. Well, mum would have kept the sleeping one busy! The two waking staff was a reason for us choosing mum's home,another nearby which we actually preferred only had one waking.
Hope it is all okay for you in the end.
Love
Margaret
Fingers crossed that David is okay. Time we had that coffee.
Nanook and others, yes the night staff are not there to sleep but they perhaps have 30 residents to keep an eye on, and if one is disturbing the others (as my mum did) it takes up their time, and other residents are perhaps neglected. We must remember that some are incontinent and need their pads changing in the night. Plus, I know that night staff in mum's home were also responsible for sorting the clean laundry for the following day. Mum's home had two "waking staff" which was good, some only have one waking and one sleeping in case of emergencies. Well, mum would have kept the sleeping one busy! The two waking staff was a reason for us choosing mum's home,another nearby which we actually preferred only had one waking.
Hope it is all okay for you in the end.
Love
Margaret
keeping everyone awake
hello all, just wanted to say thanks again, I was interested to read your thread beckyjan re your David. Yes there does seem to be similarities, Neville has only been in the RH 5 weeks but prior to that he was in respite in another RH so I understand he must be very disorientated. Yes there are waking staff on at night but unfortunately the one sleeping staff is right next door to Nevilles' room so when he starts trying to move furniture throughout the night it is bound to disturb her. I have apologised but there is not much else I can do as if I try to question Neville he becomes upset and denies everything so I don't do that. As you say, that is why they are there . Incidentally, just out of interest, Neville seems so have become very confused regarding men and women. All the staff except one are female and all the service users except one and himself are female but he is adamant that all are men. Has anyone come across this before? thankyou all. love Nanook.
hello all, just wanted to say thanks again, I was interested to read your thread beckyjan re your David. Yes there does seem to be similarities, Neville has only been in the RH 5 weeks but prior to that he was in respite in another RH so I understand he must be very disorientated. Yes there are waking staff on at night but unfortunately the one sleeping staff is right next door to Nevilles' room so when he starts trying to move furniture throughout the night it is bound to disturb her. I have apologised but there is not much else I can do as if I try to question Neville he becomes upset and denies everything so I don't do that. As you say, that is why they are there . Incidentally, just out of interest, Neville seems so have become very confused regarding men and women. All the staff except one are female and all the service users except one and himself are female but he is adamant that all are men. Has anyone come across this before? thankyou all. love Nanook.
Hi Nanook:
No I have no experience of the male/female thing. Not sure that David is very aware but nothing too obvious. He showed concern this afternoon when two carers were taking him off to the loo - he wanted me with him!!! I resisted
Maybe we have to share this readjustment thing - it is hard!!
Love Jan
No I have no experience of the male/female thing. Not sure that David is very aware but nothing too obvious. He showed concern this afternoon when two carers were taking him off to the loo - he wanted me with him!!! I resisted
Maybe we have to share this readjustment thing - it is hard!!
Love Jan
Hi Becky, Ellies and Margaret, its so good to know you are all out there, this is the best thing that has happened to me for a long time. I have always found that talking has been helpful for me whenever a crisis hit but sometimes you feel that you are talking but no-one is really listening. Now this has changed for me. Having said that I am going to try counselling , 1st session on tues so will let you know how things go. Your story re going to the loo with David made me smile Becky, and I realise that we have to smile about some of these happenings!! Have to work tomorrow so will close, look forward to going on site tomorrow eve. Love Nanook.
Hi Nanook
Hope you managed to get a good nights sleep (I'm assuming you won't be reading this till tomorrow).
I'm not sure what type of dementia Neville has, but have they ruled out the possibility of a TIA? I'm only suggesting this as my mum went into emergency respite last Monday and when I spoke to the manager this evening it seems like her daily routine has completely changed. I was told she'd taken herself off to bed at about 8.30 pm and that she gets up about 3 am, dresses, goes to lounge and wonders where everyone is. They make her tea and take her back to bed. The manager was suprised when I told her to my knowledge mum usually goes to bed around 10.30, although sometimes when I'm at her place she'll get ready for bed around 10 pm. She does usually get up in the night to go to the loo, but I've never known her to get dressed. However, while she was with us over Christmas there was one incident when she'd gone to bed around 10 and I heard her get up about an hour later and she told me she thought she'd have a wash, dress and come down and clearly had no idea what time of day it was. She's also either putting her nightie on over her clothes or forgetting to take it off when she dresses and then can't find it in the evening.
Her OT thinks she might have had another TIA and this could account for the changes in behaviour. Before she went into respite she'd apparently become increasingly restless and agitated and even a bit paranoid. The only tablet she takes is Reminyl. The consultant didn't increase the dosage after the last visit, though I forgot to ask him why at the time. Somehow I don't think it would make much difference now.
She's being moved to another place on Wednesday for a further 2 weeks respite and then a decision will be made as to whether she can go home again. Personally I don't think she can, and to be honest I hope she doesn't as while she's in the CH I know where she is and that she's being cared for 24/7. She has wandered off in the past and with the current weather situation I'd be scared of her going off and no one realising she'd gone for hours. The manager told me she keeps losing her handbag (normal for her these days) and has actually gone outside in the snow looking for it. I think they have a secure garden so I'm assuming that's where she went, but am a little concerned that she'd be able to get outside at all in this weather.
Hope Neville settles into a 'normal' pattern soon. It could just be adjusting to new surroundings.
Chris
Hope you managed to get a good nights sleep (I'm assuming you won't be reading this till tomorrow).
I'm not sure what type of dementia Neville has, but have they ruled out the possibility of a TIA? I'm only suggesting this as my mum went into emergency respite last Monday and when I spoke to the manager this evening it seems like her daily routine has completely changed. I was told she'd taken herself off to bed at about 8.30 pm and that she gets up about 3 am, dresses, goes to lounge and wonders where everyone is. They make her tea and take her back to bed. The manager was suprised when I told her to my knowledge mum usually goes to bed around 10.30, although sometimes when I'm at her place she'll get ready for bed around 10 pm. She does usually get up in the night to go to the loo, but I've never known her to get dressed. However, while she was with us over Christmas there was one incident when she'd gone to bed around 10 and I heard her get up about an hour later and she told me she thought she'd have a wash, dress and come down and clearly had no idea what time of day it was. She's also either putting her nightie on over her clothes or forgetting to take it off when she dresses and then can't find it in the evening.
Her OT thinks she might have had another TIA and this could account for the changes in behaviour. Before she went into respite she'd apparently become increasingly restless and agitated and even a bit paranoid. The only tablet she takes is Reminyl. The consultant didn't increase the dosage after the last visit, though I forgot to ask him why at the time. Somehow I don't think it would make much difference now.
She's being moved to another place on Wednesday for a further 2 weeks respite and then a decision will be made as to whether she can go home again. Personally I don't think she can, and to be honest I hope she doesn't as while she's in the CH I know where she is and that she's being cared for 24/7. She has wandered off in the past and with the current weather situation I'd be scared of her going off and no one realising she'd gone for hours. The manager told me she keeps losing her handbag (normal for her these days) and has actually gone outside in the snow looking for it.
I think they have a secure garden so I'm assuming that's where she went, but am a little concerned that she'd be able to get outside at all in this weather.Hope Neville settles into a 'normal' pattern soon. It could just be adjusting to new surroundings.
Chris
Hi Nanook (great name - very topical),
It is possible that this evening medication is available in liquid form and could be given with an evening drink. I would ask the GP about it next time you're in contact.
Take care,
Sandy
It is possible that this evening medication is available in liquid form and could be given with an evening drink. I would ask the GP about it next time you're in contact.
Take care,
Sandy
Hi ChrisH and Sandy, thanks for interest and suggestions both of which are helpful. Neville was diagnosed with mixed dementia abt a year ago, which included vascular and alzheimers amongst others. Dr said all dementia is mixed. On his CT scan there was no evidence of tias but that was over a year ago so of course it is possible. He was going to see doctor this am regarding his altered behaviour so I will have to wait til weds for the outcome of this visit. He will possibly decide to go down the route which you suggested Sandy as it is a good idea. As Neville has only been in the RH 5 weeks he has had to change doctors so I am going to see if I can meet this new dr asap. As I work as a drs receptionist I do know that the waiting time for notes to be transferred can be quite a long while so if he hasn't got Nevilles notes he will be working in the dark so to speak. Anyway your description of your mum, Chris, does sound quite similar to what seems to be happening to Neville.
Nanook (grandchildren have always called me this so I thought as I joined on last thursday whilst looking out at the snow falling it was an appropriate name)
Nanook (grandchildren have always called me this so I thought as I joined on last thursday whilst looking out at the snow falling it was an appropriate name)
HI There I
In the early stages my dad was like this. He used to get up in the night and say he had to go out start getting dressed etc. It was a nightmare. The CPN and GPs Day centre were all telling me that I had to get my dad on medication. I am an RGN and had read up and decided that it was best to avoid this . Which I did the info I read at the time was giving advice that medication can make dementia more unpredictable, and that it was best to manage the behaviour than try and medicate it. After all do we know what causes the irrational behaviour. No is the answer we can only guess and therefore we are treating blindly either to sedate and hope that the patient sleeps or by using anti psychotics which give other side effects. I
I did neither and weathered the story. It did settle and now much further down the line I understand my dads dementia so much better because that is all that Ihave to deal with . Not wondering what has caused it ie side effects, constipation dehydration or infection.
Good luck and go with your instinct. Things will settle.
AAngelax
In the early stages my dad was like this. He used to get up in the night and say he had to go out start getting dressed etc. It was a nightmare. The CPN and GPs Day centre were all telling me that I had to get my dad on medication. I am an RGN and had read up and decided that it was best to avoid this . Which I did the info I read at the time was giving advice that medication can make dementia more unpredictable, and that it was best to manage the behaviour than try and medicate it. After all do we know what causes the irrational behaviour. No is the answer we can only guess and therefore we are treating blindly either to sedate and hope that the patient sleeps or by using anti psychotics which give other side effects. I
I did neither and weathered the story. It did settle and now much further down the line I understand my dads dementia so much better because that is all that Ihave to deal with . Not wondering what has caused it ie side effects, constipation dehydration or infection.
Good luck and go with your instinct. Things will settle.
AAngelax
