More advice re funding please!

amnmont

Registered User
Aug 11, 2008
23
0
southampton, hampshire
I asked for advice recently about funding that my dad should expect to pay for my mum being in a care home. Jenniferpa very kindly helped. However this is an update on the situation! My dad today was told he would have to pay £220 a week!!!!! :eek: he doesn't have that money and they said they would move her to a cheaper place. my dad is now talking about having her back home - not the best option by far because dad can't cope as well as he wants and he was only just surviving on a couple of hours a day. is there anywhere this can be appealed?? thank you
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
Do you know if this is because 1) of your mother's savings and/or income or 2) (more likely) because this home costs £220 a week more than the LA is prepared to pay for the type of care they have assessed your mother as requiring? The answer will make a difference to what can happen. Has she been assessed for RNCC (registered nursing care contribution) and NHS continuing care? Also, which LA are we talking about? If you'd prefer not to share that on the open board but are willing to share it with me, please PM (private message) me.
 

ella24

Registered User
Nov 9, 2008
1,024
0
South Coast UK
Hiya

I'm in Hampshire too so I have an idea of the figures you're talking about. My guess is that the difference between the care cost and the amount the authority would pay is £220 (SS call it 'top up' payments) - but if your mum has other 'benefits' like attendance allowance etc this can help to reduce the figure that needs to be topped up. This may be different if your mum is younger though (we are going through this with gran)

The 'top up' payments (hoping I'm getting this right) have to be paid by someone else, so this is why they have said your dad has to pay, or you will need to find somewhere cheaper (and I know that locally this is an issue of costings) to minimise the costs.

I think the figure fromSS is fixed but SS can and will sometimes negotiate the cost rates with the Nursing Home (and reduce your burden). Your dad (or you) could talk this over with your Social Worker.

hope this helps a bit, but its all so confusing

e
 

Sandy

Registered User
Mar 23, 2005
6,847
0
Hi amnmont,

Who was it that approached your dad about the payments - a social worker or the care home?

You might want to look at this info from the government:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HealthAndWellBeing/HealthServices/CareHomes/DG_10031525

The key point is about 1/3 of the way down the page under the heading "What if you want a more expensive care home?"

The most important point is:

If your local council cannot suggest a place that meets your needs in your local area then they should be prepared to pay more than their usual amount.


Your previous posts mentioned things like the fact that your mum is only 60, the care home is across the street from your mum and dad's house and that she entered the care home for respite in December.

Jennifer is quite right about the nursing needs assessment and also continuing care assessment. More than one person on TP with a young onset sufferer has managed to get full NHS funding.

Was social service involved in setting up the respite?

Finally, I would also ring the Alzheimer's Society's helpline on 0845 300 0336 for further advice from the pro's.

Take care,

Sandy
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
As Sandy says, that's the salient point: "meeting your needs". These needs do not just have to be "care based" (you know, able to provide the care and attention needed) but should also consider things like social needs. As a young onset sufferer your mums requirements are potentially more complex than someone, who is, say 90. Are there are young onset sufferers in this home? - that could be a telling argument. You absolutely have the right to appeal this "decision" (I put that in inverted commas because sometimes I think it's less a decision and more a default position that it's up to you to argue with). Even the fact that she is settled and happy in the home and that it is easily accessible for the family is relevant for this meeting of needs.

Do push the continuing care issue - I've said it before but it was one thing for them to take the position that my 90 year old mother's care was primarily social but clearly at 60 needing this care it's a health issue. Also, have you applied for everything you should have applied for - disability allowance etc?

The other thing to consider is - should this situation be insoluble and your father seriously be thinking about taking her home, as a young onset person she should be eligible for help from the Independent Living Fund. I know someone who was provided with 24/7 home care funded by them following a stroke.

Edited to add:

I've been looking through the hants social services adult care site, and while I wouldn't go so far as it call it mendacious, it really isn't as forthcoming as it might be. It's tone is that of infallibility: we do this and this is how it is etc. It seems specifically designed to make people believe that what they say goes, and that's not true. I suppose I'd call it smug. No mention that I can find about how to appeal their decisions. You can though so don't give up - all of these decisions can be appealed even if they'd rather you didn't.
 
Last edited:

amnmont

Registered User
Aug 11, 2008
23
0
southampton, hampshire
Jenniferpa - my mum doesn't have much of a pension. She's not worked much as she raised a us girls - such a shame that she's got penalised for that. Therefore she hasn't much to pay for the fees. But yes I think the LA aren't prepared to pay the extra £220. No idea if she has been assessed for a RNCC. I don't know what it is or how it's done so i'm guessing not!!

My dad is in Eastleigh so i think it's them and not Southampton that's been dealing with this. He contacted the social services for help as he was at wits end then they got the placement for respite and suggested it continued full time. My mum is doing really well there. Is completely different to what she was at home. The unit is for ages 65+ so she's the youngest one there.

What do you mean by your mother's care as being primarily social - and i'm guessing continuing care is full time care. I find this all really overwhelming!!

I'll print this off and pass it on to my dad - too much to remember. I keep having to scroll down and see what everyone has asked me!! lol!
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
I think that it does come under the Hants social services as documented on Hantsweb.

RNCC - registered nursing care component or continuing care (aka NHS fully funded care) is given to people who's care needs are (RNCC) partly medical, or primarily medical. My feeling is that anyone who is 60 who needs full time residential care is entitled to fully funded NHS care , but unfortunately it's not up to me. When I mentioned social care in relation to my mother I was referring to the fact that maybe as you get old you could expect to need help washing and dressing simply because of age, but if you need it at 60 it's because you're ill. Social care in this situation is social services speak for anything that doesn't need medical input.

You're really going to have to encourage your father to appeal this decision. You want to think it out carefully though, because you're going to need to document that any alternative that is offered is unsuitable for your mother. So to that end, you're going to have to research where they would send her if they didn't keep her in the current home. Unfortunately, I think the onus is on you to prove that the alternative option is unsuitable rather than them prove that it isn't. I may be wrong about that though. However, it doesn't do any harm to do your research and marshal your facts. A letter from her doctor/specialist about her needs and how the current home is fulfilling them would be one place to start.

They will walk all over you if you give them a chance so this is something you'll have to support your father in.
 

Margaret W

Registered User
Apr 28, 2007
3,720
0
North Derbyshire
Hi Amnmont,

Oh dear, I hope you find a solution, but it didn't work with my mum. Whatever you are awarded for Continuing Health Care will be a help, but at the end of the day the local authority will only pay so much towards care, and if the care home you choose charges more, someone has to pay the difference, and it can not be the patient,so will well may be you. You will then have to decide if you can commit yourself to that extra payment for however long you expeect your mum to live, or move her to a cheaper home either now or in the future. We had that dillemma ourselves, but mum lived alone cos my dad died in 2004 and we sold her house to pay for care. We always lived with the fact that her money would run out in 8 years and if she lived longer than that we would have a mega decision to make, move her or pay forever. The government is not fair on this, but currently that is the situation. In theory, we could have paid anything we wanted towards mum's care. In retrospect, as she died in November we could have afforded the plushest home in the area at £800 a week, but we chose a more modest £520 a week and were delighted with it (eventually, after lots of hiccups).

Do consider your options carefully and take advice. Help the Aged were good for us.

Regards

Margaret
 

amnmont

Registered User
Aug 11, 2008
23
0
southampton, hampshire
OH MY GOODNESS -WHAT A GREAT RESULT!! My sister phoned me yesterday and told me to stop my appealing!! My dad bumped into the manager of the home whilst out and about and the manager said he'd reduce the home fees for my mum so that dad wouldn't have to pay so much and now it's gone down to £40 a week instead!! I haven't spoken to my dad yet but I still can't believe that this has happened. Does it happen?? Is it allowed to happen?? I still can't believe it! (However my dad has admitted that their are some redundancies at his work and he was the last in so all may not be as plain sailing still but I think that's a discussion for another forum!! lol!! )

Thank you all so much for your help and replies. You have all been a great help. This forum really does help and give comfort.
 

Sandy

Registered User
Mar 23, 2005
6,847
0
Dear amnmount,

I nearly put something like this in my earlier post, in that while the council says they will only pay a fixed amount, the fees at a private care home are negotiable. So the top-up amount can be a matter for negotiation between the care home management and the relatives.

However, most people feel a little squeamish haggling over care fees, so it's good that your father and the manager came to a manageable (for now) solution.

Personally, I might still continue looking at NHS continuing care as that would cover all the costs. And it should be able to be done without upsetting any of the other parties.

It might be a good idea to call the Alzheimer's Society Helpline just to get a bit more advice.

Take care,

Sandy
 

amnmont

Registered User
Aug 11, 2008
23
0
southampton, hampshire
Sandy

Thanks for that - yes i will give them a ring. It would be good if all the fees are covered. And as for feeling squeamish over haggling - I don't ever remember my dad being like that - in fact he'd think it rude not to!!!! lol! :D
 

Forum statistics

Threads
138,144
Messages
1,993,327
Members
89,799
Latest member
GillWife