Sods Law - and care home fees

ChrisH

Registered User
Apr 16, 2008
281
0
Devon, England
Had a call today from the care home where I've put mum's name on the waiting list. They have a room and would mum like it? As mum doesn't even know about me putting her name on the list I couldn't exactly phone her and ask if she felt like moving. She's not really ready for that yet anyway and SS are in the process of putting a new care package in place, so I've said 'no'. Bet you what you like when she does need a room we'll be waiting ages as her name now goes back to the bottom of the list. :D Probably just as well as in the current economic climate she'd have a heck of a job selling her mobile home and her savings would last less than a year.

Actually I'm not sure how the funding thing works. I suppose Mum would have to self-fund as she'd be over the limit because she owns the mobile home, but her cash savings are below £16000 so she gets various benefits. If she went into a home what happens when the cash runs out and her home still hasn't been sold? I certainly can't top-up the fees and it could be a long time before the home could be sold (there are several on the site that have been up for sale for well over a year)? It's a private care home so I doubt they would be willing to wait indefinitely for their money.

Chris
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
If her cash savings are low, she should be eligible for a 12 week disregard (where the LA pay the care home fees and you don't have to pay them back). If the house doesn't sell within that time then you can get a deferred payment scheme where the LA continue to pay the fees but recoup them when the house is sold.
 

Margaret W

Registered User
Apr 28, 2007
3,720
0
North Derbyshire
Dear ChrisH

Assuming your mum lives alone, her home will be considered as capital, and will take her above the current limit for fully funded care. If the house/mobile home is not sold, the local authority will place a "loan" on it, i.e. they will take their money as and when it is sold, but will finance her in the meantime.

That is good, but they will only finance her up to their current weekly limit, which might be, say £375 a month, and the home you have chosen might be charging £500 a month. If you choose such a home, someone has to pay the shortfall, i.e. you or other relatives, friends or charities (never found any of those people rushing forward!).

If you do not like any of the homes within the local authority budget you will have to consider how to finance the extra cost of one which you like. You have already determined that you cannot finance the extra from your own funds, so it looks like you are going to be looking at homes charging the basic local authority fee. There are all sorts of alternatives you could consider if you wish to place your mum in a more expensive home; you could re-mortgage her home (seems a bit daft on her income but don't ignore the suggestion), or rent out her home to produce extra income (possibly taxable to some extent but could still produce a useful income). You could also consider purchasing a care fees plan from such has Help the Aged, by selling the home and investing the proceeds in such a plan. There are various plans, but one is to purchase a plan immediately with the proceeds of the property (you have already said it might be hard to sell), this gives you a guaranteed income for life to pay at least some of the care home fees. I suggest you get in touch with Help the Aged, their advice is free, and we found them to be very friendly and down to earth, but don't be sold anything that you don't feel happy with.

If none of this works, then you will have to look for places within the local authority budget.

Good luck with that.

Margaret
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
ChrisH - the details are contained within CRAG (Charging for Residential Accommodation Guidelines).

This what it says about the 12 week disregard


Disregarded for 12 weeks
6.028A In the case of a resident who becomes a permanent resident on or after 9 April 2001 the
value of any dwelling which he would otherwise normally occupy as his only or main
residence subject to meeting the qualifying conditions that can be found in paragraph 12 of
the Annex to LAC(2001)10. (see also 7.003A in CRAG)


THis is an example from that

A resident who has accessed the 12-weeks property disregard has a house valued at £50,000,
other capital resources worth £14,000, and income of £150. He chooses to enter a residential
care home where the actual cost is £600, while the council’s usual cost for someone with his
assessed need is £300. The council agrees to the placement, and the resident contributes
income of £150 minus the personal expenses allowance, plus a tariff income of £6 per week to
the costs of care. The council makes up the difference between its usual cost and the income
contributed by the resident. The resident agrees to make a top-up of £300 (the difference
between the actual cost and the council’s usual cost). This reduces the resident’s capital
resources (excluding the value of the home) by £3,600 over the 12 weeks. Despite the fact that
the resident’s capital resources fall because of the topping-up, the tariff income remains at the
level of £6 per week.

You can see - it's not particularly straightforward but it is doable.
 

ChrisH

Registered User
Apr 16, 2008
281
0
Devon, England
Thanks for the info Jennifer and Margaret.

If mum had a 'normal' home it would make life easier with your suggestions. Problem is it's a 20+ year old mobile home (so basically a wooden hut!) in need of some work. She doesn't have a mortgage so that's a no-go and they are not allowed to rent them out.

I think the home does take council funded residents so I'll have to find out more from them. It's a home in my village and I've known the staff and residents there for about 7 years as I worked there as a cleaner while training to be a chiropodist and now I do their feet. That's why I'd like her to go there, though I do know a couple of other places. The room came up a bit sooner than I'd expected so I hadn't really looked into the funding issue. I'll do that now so I'm better prepared for when the inevitable does have to happen and keep my fingers crossed that they will fund her. The only other problem will be that I'll be moving her to a different county, so which council would be doing the funding, her current county or down here?

I'm off to be now as I've just noticed the time and I have to be up early in the morning for work. See you all later.

Chris


Chris
 

waterwoman

Registered User
Jun 12, 2007
15
0
Anyone with dementia is entitled to free NHS Continuing Care Funding and I would suggest you apply for this on behalf of your Mum. One poster hit the nail on the head in this thread - the council will only fund up to a certain figure for care home costs each week, then you have to top up. I see that Margaret is saying that when you or your Mum run out of money, then she will have to put up with a care home withing the local authority budget. This sort of care home, probably not a nursing home at £375 a week, will not be able to care for your Mum as there is no 24/7 nursing care. It is therefore imperative either now or at a future time when the dementia has become severe, to apply for fully funded NHS Continuing Care as the NHS weekly budget is double that of a local authority, about £800 a week. For this your Mum would get a proper nursing home placement. I suggest you get further advice on Continuing Care from the msn forum: see the following link http://groups.msn.com/freenursingcareinformation/_messageboard.msnw

Here there will be people who know what they are talking about when it comes to nhs fully funded continuing care issues
 

Brucie

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
12,413
0
near London
Lest anyone get needlessly disappointed,

waterwoman said:
Anyone with dementia is entitled to free NHS Continuing Care Funding
this very wide-ranging statement is not one that I recognise as someone whose loved one has NHS Continuing Care, or that is demonstrated either in practice in the country, or in NHS or DH paperwork, which tends to read more like:
Anyone assessed as requiring a certain level of care need can get NHS continuing healthcare.

It is not dependent on a particular disease, diagnosis or condition, nor on who provides the care or where that care is provided.

If your overall care needs show that your primary need is a health one, you should qualify for continuing healthcare. http://www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publication...tions/PublicationsPolicyAndGuidance/DH_079515

In my experience NHS Continuing Care needs to be justified on the level of nursing care required.

I'm posting this because I don't want members or guests reckoning that they will get the funding just by asking, for mild or even mid term dementia. Or even advanced dementia.

... unless things have changed a whole lot in the past six months.

My specific reason was to question the use of "Anyone with dementia", without qualification.
 
Last edited:

ChrisH

Registered User
Apr 16, 2008
281
0
Devon, England
Thanks again everyone for your replies. I have a bit of homework to do by the looks of things to see what fees are etc.

Meanwhile I now have a phone saga in progress but I'll leave that for another thread - probably in the tea room.:D

Chris