Help Us Please, We Need Advice

[gillian69]

Hi

My Mum is now in ahome as my dad could not cope with her aggressive behaviour, she has been their nearly 6 months and they have just told us that they cannot cope with her aggressive behaviour.
They have had her on triazapan, i think and have just changed her drugs to diazapan, which is not (to us) having any effect of calming her down.
The home she is in have just told us that they are not equipped to deal with her, as she tried to strangle a member of staff, as she can let her self in to the locked bedrooms with her nails.

They have given us a list of three homes, and the first home assessed her today and said they could not take her..

Really really ****ed off, why was this home recommended, is this a funding issue.
Nobody can tell us how to have her assessed in a control envirnment for drugs.

CAN ANY ONE HELP WITH THIS WE ARE NOT EXPERTS, BUT ITS SEEMS TO BE A FUNDING ISSUE ARE WE RIGHT?????

PLEASE COULD SOMEONE GIVE US SOME ADVICE

Thanks for reading.

 

[BeckyJan]

Hello:

I am not sure how your area work. Did your Mum go into a home after recommendation from a Mental Health Team?

If so, then get back to them. In this area they MAY take her back into assessment and then you start again from there. The SW or CPN should be advising where and who will take her.

Have you tried the other two homes?

I doubt this is a funding issue - more to do with the facilties and training of the staff within the present home.

It sounds as if your Mum needs a specialist home for mentally impaired. They used to be called EMI homes now some areas call them 'Homes for the Elderly specialising in Dementia'!!
I obtained a booklet for this county listing all the Care Homes.

Good luck and best wishes Jan

 

[Brucie]

I've moved this thread to the main support area where there should be more activity.

 

[jenniferpa]

When you say "they" who is they? Because if it was the current home they may not be aware of what can be done by another home.

Honestly this does not sound like a funding issue: when someone is violent and disruptive there are, sadly, very few places that will be able to take her. You're going to have to bat this back firmly into the medical arena - they need to find somewhere that will fit her needs. That's how you get her properly assessed and any possible medications worked out - in an assessment unit. You need to get on the phone tomorrow to any doctors, consultant and social services people you have and tell them that they MUST do something about an appropriate placement since you can't take her home. It may be that the nursing home will be an ally in this: they can't keep her and keep their staff and other residents safe so it's up to the NHS and social services to find somewhere and they may have contacts they can use.

 

[gillian69]

Thanks

I appreciate you reply.
All homes recommende are supposed to be EMI units, and she is in an EMI unit now.
This is what we cannot understand, my sister visited the home that have said they cannot take her, and she told them exactly what she was like - they said yes thats fine - we will come and assess her.
I cannot understand what is happening

 

[gillian69]

Jennifer

Thanks but every time we mention assessment units - noboby knows anything or are not telling us.

My own opinion for what it is worth is that we need her in a hospital assessment unit to assess her drugs, but they all look blankly at us, no can do

 

[jenniferpa]

There are EMI and EMI units I'm afraid. When it comes to violence they are often not geared up at all. Assessment units are also pretty variable as you have found. All I can suggest is that you tell them that she'll have to be sectioned if they can't deal with her - this will put the ball firmly in the NHS's court. Not pleasant but I can't think of anything else, and OF COURSE its Friday

You could try emergency social services - the number will be in the book. Do you have a social worker?

 

[gillian69]

Hi

My mum has not been in a NHS assessment unit for her drugs - they put her into an EMI UNIT - and now they cannot deal with her_ all the residents go in and out of the locked rooms - we are gobsmacked.

Can anyone give stable advice for my mum??

 

[jenniferpa]

When I said assessment units are variable as you have found, I meant that they are not universally available (or so it seems). Which is your PCT? There's something called Denbigh Ward http://www.cpft.nhs.uk/Servicedirectory/tabid/139/language/en-US/Default.aspx

but I'm sure that's not the only one. Still, you can't self-refer to these things - she'd have to be referred.

 

[Grannie G]

Hello Gillian

The home your mother is now in....have they given you a deadline to find her another home? They cannot turf her out onto the streets.

I suggest you phone emergency social services and explain the situation. They will advise you.

This is not your responsibility. Do not be browbeaten. Your mother is seriously ill and needs care. It is up to the Social services and the health services to provide that care for her.

Do not under any circumstances take your mother home.

 

[Margarita]

Can anyone give stable advice for my mum??

why not ring Commission for Social Care, they may give you Independent advice
you can phone them on 0845 015 0120
* 0191 233 3323

Share concerns and complaints

Find out how to share concerns and complaints about a social care service, your council, or us.

You can also get this information on our easy to read pages and in other languages.

http://www.csci.org.uk/complain/share_concerns_and_complaints.aspx

 

[Margaret W]

Hello Gillian

I am no expert, just a caring daughter, though my mum has now passed away. Your mum needs a proper assessment in a medical situation with expert elderly mental health psychiatrists and mental health teams. They need to know how she responds to all sorts of situations, and learn how to control her responses, whether by medication or by behavioural techniques. Only then can they asses what kind of care home might be able to cope with her.

Someone has suggested that she might be sectioned. That is not as scary as it sounds, it means she is more likely to get the proper professional assessment that she needs, and is kept in a safe environment until a full diagnosis is made. You might find that during that period drugs are found that moderate her behaviour and enable her to be suitable for transfer to a secure care home or nursing home.

I have to say that homes for people with severe problems are not so prolific as general care/nursing homes, so you might have to consider a home for mum that is some distance away from you, but if she gets the right care there, it is all you can do.

Do keep us posted, we might all be there some day.

Much love

Margaret

 

[Marianne]

Hi Gillian
Why is the home your mum is in presently not contacting the services informing them they cannot cope with her. I don't think they should be making this your problem, have they asked for an assessment from the CPN or from anyone prior to saying they cannot cope.

They cannot say to you "we cannot cope" without bringing in the Authorities to have her assessed for her health needs. If this is what they are doing then why would any other EMI home cope any better.

I would tell the Manager of the home that she needs to contact whoever is paying the fees that she cannot cope and has issued notice to your mum. If the person paying the bills is your mum or family then you need to request a full multi disciplinary assessment to assess her health needs.

 

[Brucie]

Thanks but every time we mention assessment units - noboby knows anything or are not telling us.

In our area, Jan was in the care of a consultant post-diagnosis.

The consultant worked for the local Primary Care Trust.

The Primary Care Trust had a specialist unit for all mental problems, and this included two special wards for elderly people with mental problems - dementia primarily.

One ward was an open access ward, the other was a closed ward that required key code access.

All assessments were made in one of the two wards.

Jan went for three assessments in all. First twice totally in the open wards. She even gained a slight tan, sitting in the garden, while she was there.

Third and last time started in the open ward and quickly moved to the closed ward, and two weeks extended to five months, with discharge to the home where she has since lived.

Your Mum's consultant should know what facilities are available and where.

 

[roundy]

This makes me so angry,how dare they say she is too hard to handle, they are getting paid for an EMI bed for your mum,if they can,t deal with it don't sell the bed as that!! The first person THE HOME!! should be contacting is your mums CPN or Social Worker preferably both! This could be as simple as changing her medication, but the home cannot make that decision nor can they make the decision to throw her out it has to be discussed with everyone who care for your mum,professional and otherwise!
You get back on to them and fight! Don't be pushed around by them.Get hold of her CPN and social services first thing Monday or even use the emergency numbers.
You take care.
Love Lisa.

 

[Skye]

I really can't understand this at all.

My husband is in an EMI unit, and in the one case of serious aggression I've seen, the person was sectioned immediately.

He also attacked a member of staff, and they could not calm him down. The police, social worker, CPN, and the man's wife were called, and then two staff from the assessment unit came with an ambulance and he was immediately transferred.

It's the only case I've seen, in the 15 months John has been there, and it was a last resort.

If your mum's unit cannot cope, they should be sorting it out, in co-operation with SW and CPN. They should not be passing the buck to you.

I think you should go in on Monday morning and insist that they call in SW and CPN to decide what should be done.

Good luck,

 

[gillian69]

Thankyou all

Hi

Thankyou all for your responses, i appreciate them all.

What we cannot understand is yes the sw and cpn are all involved, but the drugs are not having any effect.

I know that drugs are not the answer, but i feel that my mum is going to live the rest of her years angry, frustrated and mad!!!

To me, if that was me, and it may be one day, i am sure i would have preffered to be calm and happy even if drugs were used!!

Surely if she was content in her home and happy to see her friends and family, and not getting aggressive and angry, this would help matters?

Would love to hear your opinions?

Thanks

Gillian

 

[Marianne]

Gillian
My dad had Vascular Dementia and could get very angry and agitated at times,but it usually was because he had pain or a UTI, or his hearing aid was lost or it had gone round a few hundred times in the washer/dryer, sometimes he could be calmed with his beloved cup of tea. But in all honesty the home my dad was in even though it had been awarded 3 stars they did not have a clue how to deal with Dementia patients.

The Manager sat in an office and only very rarely did she come out. The staff were mostly Asian brought into the country by the home and could not speak English.How they were expected to understand what my dad wanted but the most important thing for this home was saving money, the patient was an afterthought.

With the combination of Dementia/Care Staff who couldn't speak English I am not surprised it caused frustration for my dad. I believe this lack of understanding between staff and patient also led to the abuse of my dad.

I am sorry to go on but I do think most of the time the agitation and aggression can be sorted out with a little more care and compassion after omitting any underlying infection.There was one carer in my dad's home, unfortunately she left but while she was there if my dad became aggressive she only had to approach him with her arms outstretched and he would hold his arms out and a little smile appeared.

You say your mum busies herself opening doors, I am sure they could find something for her to do to distract her away and get their doors sorted out so she can't open them.

 

[Margaret W]

Dear Gillian

Despite everyone feeling this should be the responsibility of the care home (and it should be, after all who would do it if she had no relatives at all?), I think it is going to be down to you to rattle cages. The care home can hopefully advise on who to contact, but not always, so get onto your Community Psychiatric Team at the highest level and SHOUT at them. Like Jan, I have a dossier of suitable homes in the area that could take a disruptive/aggressive person and there are none in our area. The nearest is about 50 miles away, but if it were a place that provides the right support it would have to be. Cost? Don't ask, let us hope you are state-funded.

Keep us posted,

Margaret

 

[Grannie G]

Dear Gillian

I know that drugs are not the answer, but i feel that my mum is going to live the rest of her years angry, frustrated and mad!!!

(

This is not necessarily so but you are not getting good advice. In fact you don`t seem to be getting any advice from the home or from the medics or professionals responsible for your mother`s care.

Please tell them this is too much for you and you can`t take the responsibility. You will co-operate with any good advice given but they must not leave it entirely to you.

You need help and support. You are not getting the help and support you need from the Services. Those of us on TP who would like to help you can only offer suggestions.