Sectioning!

Bunpoots

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Apr 1, 2016
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I totally understand your feelings @Rosserk and, like you, I fought to keep my parent in his bungalow. However, like @Pete1, I did feel guilty once dad had settled into the carehome as I realised how anxious and frightened he must have been at home.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
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I totally understand your feelings @Rosserk and, like you, I fought to keep my parent in his bungalow. However, like @Pete1, I did feel guilty once dad had settled into the carehome as I realised how anxious and frightened he must have been at home.
Hi @Bunpoots
Psychiatrist called and apparently my mums sodium levels are extremely low. They can’t find what’s causing it so they’re stopping one of her medications, They think the sodium has exasperated her dementia. They said it could explain why she suddenly went in to a spiralling decline and became so anxious and frightened. Hopefully they can find the cause and fix it x
 

Palerider

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Aug 9, 2015
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I totally understand your feelings @Rosserk and, like you, I fought to keep my parent in his bungalow. However, like @Pete1, I did feel guilty once dad had settled into the carehome as I realised how anxious and frightened he must have been at home.

I just want to support this, mum was the same in the end, frightened and anxious at home alone.
 

Palerider

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Aug 9, 2015
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Hi @Bunpoots
Psychiatrist called and apparently my mums sodium levels are extremely low. They can’t find what’s causing it so they’re stopping one of her medications, They think the sodium has exasperated her dementia. They said it could explain why she suddenly went in to a spiralling decline and became so anxious and frightened. Hopefully they can find the cause and fix it x

Hmm low sodium is a big one for acute delerium. Hopefully they can find the cause, but it could be dietry if your mum isn't eating properly. There are other causes so best wait and see.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
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I just want to support this, mum was the same in the end, frightened and anxious at home alone.
@Palerider did you see my last post? Apparently mums sodium levels are extremely low which could be causing her symptoms particularly as they came on suddenly. They are thinking of getting sodium levels back up and trying risperidrone?
 

Palerider

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Aug 9, 2015
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@Palerider did you see my last post? Apparently mums sodium levels are extremely low which could be causing her symptoms particularly as they came on suddenly. They are thinking of getting sodium levels back up and trying risperidrone?

yes saw it and replied. A low sodium can be corrected quickly if not chronic. They will hopefully give her IV fluid (sodium chloride) to bring it back up, but there has to be caution, quickly rectifying sodium can also be risky so it depends if it was an acute low sodium or a chronic one. Acute drop in sodium means a quick remedy, a chronic drop means they have to go more slowly as correcting it too quickly can also have problems. But yes a really low sodium probably explains some of the behaviour, the question is why was it so low?
 

Moggymad

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May 12, 2017
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Hi hospital just called after I switched my phone on they said she was medically fit and wanted to go home. I said well she needs sectioning and they said they get the mental health team to see her. She’s been there since 7pm last night in A&E and hasn’t been seen by mental health team! I’m at my wits end she must be really distressed I don’t know what to do! X

And another question is how come on Tuesday the hospital reckoned your mum was medically fit to go home when as you now know she has very low sodium levels possibly causing the acute delirium she went into hospital because of!!! I am so glad you found the strength not to give in. I do hope things greatly improve now once this is properly investigated & treated.
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
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Yorkshire
I hope that your mums sodium is the cause and it can be sorted and that and new medication helps her feel calmer and not scared around you any more. Whether you care for her at home or in a care home I hope they find something that helps her soon x
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
396
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yes saw it and replied. A low sodium can be corrected quickly if not chronic. They will hopefully give her IV fluid (sodium chloride) to bring it back up, but there has to be caution, quickly rectifying sodium can also be risky so it depends if it was an acute low sodium or a chronic one. Acute drop in sodium means a quick remedy, a chronic drop means they have to go more slowly as correcting it too quickly can also have problems. But yes a really low sodium probably explains some of the behaviour, the question is why was it so low?

So far they’re saying they can’t find anything that’s causing it. They asked if she was drinking large amounts of fluids but she wasn’t she was drinking same as always. They have been monitoring her fluid intake but the sodium levels are still really low.
 

Rosserk

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Jul 9, 2019
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And another question is how come on Tuesday the hospital reckoned your mum was medically fit to go home when as you now know she has very low sodium levels possibly causing the acute delirium she went into hospital because of!!! I am so glad you found the strength not to give in. I do hope things greatly improve now once this is properly investigated & treated.
I never thought about that but you’re right. I am fast losing patience with these people. It really is difficult to find anyone who knows what they’re doing!
 

millalm

Registered User
Oct 9, 2019
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@Rosserk all the hairs on my body stood up and I got a chill when I read your post about low sodium. I told you that my Mum had what they called a 'psychotic break' while in hospital in 2012.
What I didn't say was that she was in hospital because her sodium was depleted and her electrolytes were out of whack due to her having a lingering UTI, being on 3 different courses of antibiotics and throwing up from them while eating very little and drinking large amounts of cranberry juice and water. After 2 days on high sodium drip that she had the episode. She had delusions and believed there was a conspiracy in the hospital, and that her Korean heart specialist was the leader of a drug cartel. She thought the hospital were using dead bodies to turn into hospital food, so wouldn't eat or drink anything unless I gave it to her, and that all of the people around her were actors in a huge coverup. She actually escaped from the ICU and wandered the hospital holding a large flashlight that she was planning to use to escape. When I arrived she wanted me to kill the nurse on duty so we could escape. She seemed to calm down and be ok , but then I realized that for the next 3 days she was 'acting normal' but still in the midst of the delusion. It was not long after these events that the first real symptoms of dementia started. Her gerontologist believes that the fast replacement of sodium caused a 'vascular event' which may have contributed to the rapid decline into dementia (@Palerider it sounds like you are also familiar with this issue) So please be very careful in dealing with your Mum's situation. Find out why they didn't know the sodium was low when they released her and watch very closely for signs of continuing delusional behaviour. Make sure you question them about what steps they will take to rectify the sodium. Sadly, I have found that the medical world will be much more careful in the treatment of the elderly , particularly PWD if there is someone asking questions.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
396
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@Rosserk all the hairs on my body stood up and I got a chill when I read your post about low sodium. I told you that my Mum had what they called a 'psychotic break' while in hospital in 2012.
What I didn't say was that she was in hospital because her sodium was depleted and her electrolytes were out of whack due to her having a lingering UTI, being on 3 different courses of antibiotics and throwing up from them while eating very little and drinking large amounts of cranberry juice and water. After 2 days on high sodium drip that she had the episode. She had delusions and believed there was a conspiracy in the hospital, and that her Korean heart specialist was the leader of a drug cartel. She thought the hospital were using dead bodies to turn into hospital food, so wouldn't eat or drink anything unless I gave it to her, and that all of the people around her were actors in a huge coverup. She actually escaped from the ICU and wandered the hospital holding a large flashlight that she was planning to use to escape. When I arrived she wanted me to kill the nurse on duty so we could escape. She seemed to calm down and be ok , but then I realized that for the next 3 days she was 'acting normal' but still in the midst of the delusion. It was not long after these events that the first real symptoms of dementia started. Her gerontologist believes that the fast replacement of sodium caused a 'vascular event' which may have contributed to the rapid decline into dementia (@Palerider it sounds like you are also familiar with this issue) So please be very careful in dealing with your Mum's situation. Find out why they didn't know the sodium was low when they released her and watch very closely for signs of continuing delusional behaviour. Make sure you question them about what steps they will take to rectify the sodium. Sadly, I have found that the medical world will be much more careful in the treatment of the elderly , particularly PWD if there is someone asking questions.
Hi thank you! You’re not going to believe this but here goes anyway!18 months ago my mum was fully functioning although a bit forgetful she was completely independent and always in the go. She fell and broke her hip and was taken to hospital. The night before they operated on her I received a phone call telling me she’d walked off the ward. I said that’s not possible she’s broken her hip!i raced down to the hospital and as I got out of my car in the car park I heard screaming when I looked up my mum was standing on a window ledge trying ing to climb out and shouting run run they are going to shoot you! I ran up to the ward got her off the window ledge and settled her down. Over the next 48 hours she saw dogs in washing machines, ninjas running around with guns, bees flying around her head, she was actually swotting the air.
I was told this was the result of a possible water infection but had no further explanation. Over the next few weeks went back to ‘almost’ normal but I think this was the start of the dementia taking hold.
I saw mum yesterday and the change is phenomenal! She was holding a coherent conversation and was understanding a lot of what was said. She just looks completely different, her face isn’t all twisted with aggression and anger. It’s a complete contrast to how she’s been for the last six months. Mums dementia literally came on overnight she went to bed and woke up with dementia!
She’s been in a week and her sodium levels are coming back up. Hospital said they didn’t want to bring them up to quickly by using a drip so they decided to restrict her fluid intake. She was restricted to 1.5 litres and then to 1litre. Her levels are coming back up but it’s whether they will stay up is the problem. Because they can’t find a cause they’re now assuming it’s simply because she’s been drinking to many fluids. Don’t get me wrong mums still got advanced dementia but a lot of the crazy irrational symptoms she’s been having appear to be gone. For example mum was having severe sundowners every single day without fail it was like someone flicked a switch and all h*ll broke loose. Mums had two days without any symptoms of sundowning and she’s slept the last two nights as opposed to wondering around. Hopefully they will give us a plan for keeping them down and they will regularly check her sodium levels. X
 

millalm

Registered User
Oct 9, 2019
262
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OMG I can't believe it. This is the first time I have heard a history that is the same as my Mums ! Have you ever heard of anyone else experiencing something similar? I think the delusions my Mum was having were related to the fact that she used to read crime and mystery novels often at a rate of one a day and loved espionage and shoot em up movies lol She was in a straight jacket when I arrived and had a scary gleam in her eyes which lasted for the 3 days. She had hidden her jewelry around the room and was sending me signals by squeezing my hand 3 times if she was saying something that was not true. You literally know how I felt!

Do you know if your Mum had low sodium levels when she was in the hospital with the broken hip ? After that event my Mum's CT scans had a dark shadow in an area of the brain that cause some of the same symptoms as a stroke, even though she has never had one. Sadly, as you say, she was never quite the same after that. Within a year she was diagnosed with Vascular Dementia which was later changed to Mixed Dementia, now 6 years later she is also in the advanced late stages.

I am so glad to hear they are restricting the amount of sodium they are replacing at a time, it sounds like they are aware of the risk for the elderly in replacing sodium too aggressively. Apparently there have been some studies about it. They have had my Mum on different meds for the delusions and hallucinations she experiences particularly during Sundown, including risperidone, but I have found that the gentle delusions and hallucinations she has are preferable to the rigid, zombie like person she became when taking the meds.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your story, it somehow makes me feel better (?) I am very glad to hear your Mum is back to her 'normal' state.
 

Rosserk

Registered User
Jul 9, 2019
396
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OMG I can't believe it. This is the first time I have heard a history that is the same as my Mums ! Have you ever heard of anyone else experiencing something similar? I think the delusions my Mum was having were related to the fact that she used to read crime and mystery novels often at a rate of one a day and loved espionage and shoot em up movies lol She was in a straight jacket when I arrived and had a scary gleam in her eyes which lasted for the 3 days. She had hidden her jewelry around the room and was sending me signals by squeezing my hand 3 times if she was saying something that was not true. You literally know how I felt!

Do you know if your Mum had low sodium levels when she was in the hospital with the broken hip ? After that event my Mum's CT scans had a dark shadow in an area of the brain that cause some of the same symptoms as a stroke, even though she has never had one. Sadly, as you say, she was never quite the same after that. Within a year she was diagnosed with Vascular Dementia which was later changed to Mixed Dementia, now 6 years later she is also in the advanced late stages.

I am so glad to hear they are restricting the amount of sodium they are replacing at a time, it sounds like they are aware of the risk for the elderly in replacing sodium too aggressively. Apparently there have been some studies about it. They have had my Mum on different meds for the delusions and hallucinations she experiences particularly during Sundown, including risperidone, but I have found that the gentle delusions and hallucinations she has are preferable to the rigid, zombie like person she became when taking the meds.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your story, it somehow makes me feel better (?) I am very glad to hear your Mum is back to her 'normal' state.

Hi I’m grateful you shared your story thank you. They didn’t mention low sodium levels last time all they said was they suspected she had a water infection even though nothing showed up in any urine samples. She had her op and came home a few days later and the delusions and hallucinations stopped. My mum could also read a book in a day it used to fascinate me someone could do that. She also read murder mysteries and horror stories.

She was diagnosed with dementia about 12 months later. She has front temporal lobe and Alzheimer’s so the same as your mum mixed dementia. Her scans showed significant shrinkage in her frontal lobes. They are talking about risperidrone but nothing decided yet they don’t appear to be in any hurry.

They think mums levels have dropped again despite the fact she’s in restricted fluids, she was awake all night and wanting to go home but it’s still possible to reason with her at the moment. Did your mums sodium levels drop again after they were corrected and if so what treatment did she have. X
 

millalm

Registered User
Oct 9, 2019
262
0
Interesting, I wonder if it was a sodium issue that caused your Mum's initial episode. I know my Mum's old wive's cure when she had little twinges from her bladder was cranberry juice and lots of water, perhaps your Mum was doing the same if she was aware she was having signs of an infection. Since that happened to my Mum I have been obsessive about monitoring her urinary health, (lol) if I even have an inkling that she might have an infection I insist they test her right away. Fortunately, she has only had 1 UTI in the last 3 years and we caught it right away, so she has not had any sodium issues since. Back in March she suddenly became listless and experienced some pretty serious delirium which resulted in her staying awake for days on end, humming Galway Bay and rambling about and to people I couldn't see or hear, then sleeping for 48 hours. She had no sign of any infection but was deemed end of life and so for a week we expected her to die, all her meds were withdrawn and she was not interested in eating or drinking. She had gotten to the point of only having mouth care, no food or fluids, and showing signs of irregular breathing when she suddenly began to suck on a mouth care swab and I realized she seemed thirsty. I started to reintroduce liquids and within a few days she was up and about, and more lucid and physically active than she had been in a year. They reintroduced only her blood pressure meds and she continued to rally for about a month or two. Since May it has been a slow decline and she is once again showing signs of listlessness, lack of responsiveness and so I think we may be near the end, but based on the last time I am not panicking (yet) that This Is It.
We seem to be on the same path @Rosserk so I can say, without reservation, I know how you feel . In a weird way it makes me feel less alone. It is good that you can still reason with her, count that as a blessing. My Mum has lost just about all of her interpersonal and communication skills, rarely speaking with the exception of please and thank you love (always) and the odd rambling sentence ' I need to get the potatoes ready' or ' I need you to pick up the dresses (?)

I hope the next few days are kind to you and your Mum:)
 

Mandy76

Registered User
Jul 25, 2019
50
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I am just seeing your posts about the low sodium. My mother also was found to have this when I had to have her hospitalised in July. She has Dementia with Lewy Bodies which literally came on overnight. Normal one day, dementia the next. This happened at the end of April.

Anyway, in June, she collapsed and was taken to hospital and was found to be severely dehydrated, so she was put on a drip then sent home the next day. Then about 3 weeks later, she become totally delusional and I had to get the emergency doctor out. They sent her straight to hospital. This is where they found that her sodium levels were very low, as were her potassium levels. They were treated and she was sent home the next day.

They said that one of the tablets that she takes for high blood pressure is a diuretic and can drain sodium levels, so that was stopped. Her levels were monitored for the next few months and they went back up to normal.

However, I got a print out of her recent blood tests from the GP surgery and I noticed that over the past year, her sodium levels had been gradually dropping, not to a really low level and they were still within normal range, but each time she had a routine blood test, it was a few points lower.

I wonder if it can start to gradually fall and tip a potential dementia over the edge, or hasten it's onset?
 

annielou

Registered User
Sep 27, 2019
1,917
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Yorkshire
Hope they can find out what is causing your mums sodium to drop and find a way to keep them level where should be as it seemed to have made such a difference to her. X
 

millalm

Registered User
Oct 9, 2019
262
0
@Mandy76 That's very interesting to read, did your Mum have low sodium at the end of April when you say the dementia happened overnight? Did she have a urinary infection? Based on your experience I would definitely contact the Dr to have them try to find out why the levels are dropping and try to stabilize them, if only to prevent another episode. It is only my experience with my Mum that has made me believe that either the depletion of sodium or the rate at which they replaced it that contributed to the 'vascular event' that seemed to result in her rapid decline into dementia. @Rosserk's experience seems to have the same factors. Of course in each of our cases a urinary infection actually started the chain of events, so who really knows. Just another mystery in trying to make any sense of this horrid disease. Best of luck .