My sibling is not happy with how mother has set up her financial poa. She has told mother that it needs changing and she should be one of the attorneys. This obviously would entail revoking the original, leaving mother without an attorney with access to her banks for up to 3 months. I am not convinced mother understands exactly what the whole process entails. Any advice please
Changing poa
- Thread starter Fuzzysheep
- Start date
Does your mother have capacity to revoke the LDA and set up a new one?
implies she may not capacity.
implies she may not capacity.
Welcome to Dementia Talking Point @Fuzzysheep
I don’t have any advice as such but my thoughts are that your mum has chosen her attorney because that was the person/people she trusted.
Your sister sounds pushy to me. Why does she want to be an attorney?
She shouldn’t be putting pressure on your mum - it’s a lot of hassle to get the LPA changed and I can’t see in benefitting your mum unless there’s a problem with the attorney/s she has.
I don’t have any advice as such but my thoughts are that your mum has chosen her attorney because that was the person/people she trusted.
Your sister sounds pushy to me. Why does she want to be an attorney?
She shouldn’t be putting pressure on your mum - it’s a lot of hassle to get the LPA changed and I can’t see in benefitting your mum unless there’s a problem with the attorney/s she has.
It is not for your sibling to be happy or unhappy about who is your mother's attorney unless it can be shown that they are not acting in her best interests, your mother had the right to choose who she liked and decided. Does your mum still have sufficient mental capacity to revoke the LPA and do a new one?
If the power of attorney is revoked, the existing attorney's will remain in situ until the paperwork for the replacement attorney's has been authorised by OPG, it will be a seamless transition and no need to worry.
Any problems encountered, are more likely to be from the banks; the outgoing and incoming attorney's should work together to ensure mum has access to her money whilst the banks are updating their records.
It is of course, an attorney's duty to put mum's best interests foremost and it is tiresome of your sister to squabble about who would be a better attorney.
Your mum had capacity and it was her decision alone to choose who acts on her behalf, never mind what anybody else thinks and the OPG will stand firm behind her appointed attorney's.
A Lasting Power of Attorney is put in place to provide advice and support during future times when mum may have trouble making her own decisions.
Attorneys can be revoked, if mum still has full capacity and that is her choice, but be aware that the OPG do not accept a revocation lightly. They will more than likely seek independent medical reports that mum made the decision herself.
This happened with my mum, her original attorney was, shall we say, highly unsuitable. We had to jump through the OPG hoops, but the revocation went through and we got him off mum's back, not before he had helped himself to her pension money plus, plus, plus, but that's another story.
If your mum doesn't have capacity, then the process is a completely different kettle of fish!
Any problems encountered, are more likely to be from the banks; the outgoing and incoming attorney's should work together to ensure mum has access to her money whilst the banks are updating their records.
It is of course, an attorney's duty to put mum's best interests foremost and it is tiresome of your sister to squabble about who would be a better attorney.
Your mum had capacity and it was her decision alone to choose who acts on her behalf, never mind what anybody else thinks and the OPG will stand firm behind her appointed attorney's.
A Lasting Power of Attorney is put in place to provide advice and support during future times when mum may have trouble making her own decisions.
Attorneys can be revoked, if mum still has full capacity and that is her choice, but be aware that the OPG do not accept a revocation lightly. They will more than likely seek independent medical reports that mum made the decision herself.
This happened with my mum, her original attorney was, shall we say, highly unsuitable. We had to jump through the OPG hoops, but the revocation went through and we got him off mum's back, not before he had helped himself to her pension money plus, plus, plus, but that's another story.
If your mum doesn't have capacity, then the process is a completely different kettle of fish!
Thank you. Mother is giving out mixed messages, telling one person that she is happy with how things are set up and then agreeing to change.
I thought that when a poa was revoked the current access to accounts etc also had to be revoked.
SSister has indicated that she realises mother should have an independent advocate but is trying to start the pricess without one.
I thought that when a poa was revoked the current access to accounts etc also had to be revoked.
SSister has indicated that she realises mother should have an independent advocate but is trying to start the pricess without one.
Hi @Fuzzysheep, when my mum revoked her first attorney, he stayed 'in charge' of her bank accounts until we had the new LPA documents certified and were able to take them to the bank. As far as the banks are concerned, they will abide by the original LPA until you can provide a copy of the revocation with the certified copy of the new attorney's and then they will update their records, mum's account won't be frozen.
It makes you realise just what a powerful document the LPA is; my mum was living with us over 150 miles away from her previous home. The unspeakable attorney had mum's bank cards and wouldn't send them to her but continued to use them himself. The bank could not / would not cancel the card until he had been officially replaced (it was one of those nationwide banks that, in our eyes, protected the attorney more than they protected mum, who's account it was - disgraceful).
Is there some doubt about the integrity of who your mum chose to act for her? Is it a family member or friend and how long has the LPA been in place.
If things have been running smoothly up till now, it seems very unkind of your sister to rock the boat just so she can be involved.
It sounds as if your poor mum is in a real quandary, trying to please everyone by agreeing with what they say, maybe her decision should be honoured, accepted, end of!
It makes you realise just what a powerful document the LPA is; my mum was living with us over 150 miles away from her previous home. The unspeakable attorney had mum's bank cards and wouldn't send them to her but continued to use them himself. The bank could not / would not cancel the card until he had been officially replaced (it was one of those nationwide banks that, in our eyes, protected the attorney more than they protected mum, who's account it was - disgraceful).
Is there some doubt about the integrity of who your mum chose to act for her? Is it a family member or friend and how long has the LPA been in place.
If things have been running smoothly up till now, it seems very unkind of your sister to rock the boat just so she can be involved.
It sounds as if your poor mum is in a real quandary, trying to please everyone by agreeing with what they say, maybe her decision should be honoured, accepted, end of!
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Leaving aside the very relevant question about capacity (I'll come to that later), I can comment on my own experience of revoking my Lasting Power of Attorney. As Donor, I sent the Deed of Revocation and original validated LPA to the Office of the Public Guardian on 26 December. By 11 January:
- my erstwhile attorneys had each been sent a letter telling them that the LPA had been cancelled and that they were no longer allowed to use the LPA to make decisions on my behalf
- the original LPA was returned to me certified by OPG as Cancelled.
Even over a holiday period there was no significant delay between Revocation and Cancellation of the LPA. This suggests that it is incorrect to say that the 'existing' attorney will remain in situ/in charge until a new LPA is certified. Once the LPA has been cancelled the former Attorney(s) has no legal powers to act and would be in breach of the law if they did.
Any registration with banks etc. would strictly be invalid from the date of cancellation. The Donor with capacity ought at that point present evidence of the cancellation ie the original LPA certified by OPG as Cancelled. When a new LPA is made that could then be presented to the bank.
To be able to arrange the revocation and application for a new LPA the Donor must have capacity. They should therefore be able to manage their own bank account in the interim. If they don't have capacity they can neither revoke nor make a new application.
See: https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/end
- my erstwhile attorneys had each been sent a letter telling them that the LPA had been cancelled and that they were no longer allowed to use the LPA to make decisions on my behalf
- the original LPA was returned to me certified by OPG as Cancelled.
Even over a holiday period there was no significant delay between Revocation and Cancellation of the LPA. This suggests that it is incorrect to say that the 'existing' attorney will remain in situ/in charge until a new LPA is certified. Once the LPA has been cancelled the former Attorney(s) has no legal powers to act and would be in breach of the law if they did.
Any registration with banks etc. would strictly be invalid from the date of cancellation. The Donor with capacity ought at that point present evidence of the cancellation ie the original LPA certified by OPG as Cancelled. When a new LPA is made that could then be presented to the bank.
To be able to arrange the revocation and application for a new LPA the Donor must have capacity. They should therefore be able to manage their own bank account in the interim. If they don't have capacity they can neither revoke nor make a new application.
See: https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/end
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In our case the timing on my mum's swap-over was date matched; the old was cancelled the same day as the new was put in place, likewise, the letter sent to the revoked attorney removing his authority, was dated to coincide with the appointment of her replacement's. The attorney would not return mum's original document, which was in his possession, nor his copy of the LPA (charmer that he is) to the OPG.
A solicitor handled the paperwork for mum, she advised us that the changes had taken place but it took a few days for her to certify and post the document, then of course, it was a few days more before we could make an appointment at the bank.
I did mention it was at the bank where we encountered the delay, not with the OPG, the local bank were not able to rubber stamp the change, they had to forward the documents to head office, who eventually wrote to say they had changed mums records. In our opinion it was an unreasonable length of time before the bank matched their records to the new attorney's, so although the replacements were legally in place in October, the bank didn't give authority (and issue new cheque books / cards etc), until November. Until the bank accepted the new documentation the first attorney was able to access mum's account - and he did. The bank would not accept liability.
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Yes, that's correct, a new application requires payment, although the cost now is less than when mum went through the process. We have since claimed a part refund.
It sounds as if your mother should be assessed to see if she has the capacity to make a new LPA. You could contact an independent social worker and ask them to assess her (if you google you will find details of how to find an independent SW in your area). It is not your sister's decision, it is up to your mother who she chooses as LPA. No pressure should be put on her.
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