Registering Power of Attorney with bank

[Jellytots14]

Hi there,

I am new to posting on the forum but have been looking around for a while!

I am mums carer. I have been going to get around to registering Power of Attorney with her bank for ages and have tried to look online, but cant see anywhere whether she must come to the bank with me to register Power of Attorney? She finds things like this very stressful.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Noorza]

She won't be needed but before you do anything go to the bank to find out what their terms are for PoA's being registered so that you don't have any problems.

For example it is my experience that with Santander they won't let the donor I have cards or cheque books but at Lloyds TSB will allow it. Make sure it suits your needs prior to registration.

 

[FifiMo]

My mother didn't come with me and on the basis that the reason you are registering it is that your mum is not up to managing her own finances fully any more should be reason enough for her not to be there.

You are best advised to make an appointment rather than expect to be seen if you just turn up. Take the LPA document with you and you also need to have some form of identification with you - driving licence or passport - that type of thing. They also wanted to see a copy of a recent utility bill for me in order to verify the address that they would then be sending al the bank statements to etc. On the day the lady went through all mum's accounts (she had many as it had been her hobby I think to go visit the bank!) and we discussed how best to manage them. In the end up I just put it all into one account then made an appointment at a later date to talk about savings or perhaps an ISA - that sort of thing. All they then did was photocopied all the documents. Scanned them into their system so they could recognise me when i went to operate her account. I had to wait for about a week to receive new bank card and cheque book - it was much the same as before but it had my name on the cheque and 'attorney for xxxx' on it. That was it really. Don't forget when discussing accounts to ask for internet banking too - some don't do this but others do - no harm in trying as it just gives you that added flexibility when paying bills etc.

Fiona

 

[Kevinl]

If the bank in question is Santander good luck they're a bunch of "something I'm not allowed to say on here", it's NatWest then they use the rules of their head office RBS so Scottish law even if you live in England and bank there they use the Scottish rules. My advise would be get some money out into a separate account before you tell them some of the "rules" banks have made up to suit themselves quoting FSA and money laundering laws are beyond belief.
K

 

[Dunkers58]

I made an appointment at the bank ( not my mums local branch) , had to take POA document , passport and one other id , no probs. whenever I go in bank with my card I always say I am POA, never had a problem. I have a card and cheque book, my mum still received one also as she was able to still sign write cheques at the time. she does this less and less now. Was Lloyds/ TSB.

 

[legolover]

We had no problem with Barclays either

 

[Nebiroth]

Hi there,

I am new to posting on the forum but have been looking around for a while!

I am mums carer. I have been going to get around to registering Power of Attorney with her bank for ages and have tried to look online, but cant see anywhere whether she must come to the bank with me to register Power of Attorney? She finds things like this very stressful.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

Thanks in advance for any help

Just to make sure:

Usually registering a power of attorney, created via an Lasting or Enduring Power of Attorney, is done with the Court of Protection. Registering an LPA or EPA means it is activated, as it were, and this allows the Court to grant the attorneys their authority.

If you have already done this, and wish to use the power of attorney at the bank - in other words, you as attorney take over the running of your mother's accounts at that bank.

If it is the latter it need not involve your mother at all. All you need to do is to go to the bank and provide the necessary documents. This would normally be:

Identification - this is usually the same as that required as a person being a new customer, or opening a new account. How strict the requirement are varies from one bank to another and also whether you are an existing customer of theirs. However, it should not be more than a proof of name and address. The former means photo-ID and thus a passport, driver's license; the latter can be satisfied with something like a utility bill. Banks are required to have alternative procedures in place for persons who don't have a passport or driving license; they became shall we say over zealous in the matter and the FSA issued guidance . If you don't have photo ID then they may require three forms of identification, not two. Anything from a government department like the DWP is normally good, particularly if it quotes your NI number.

Proof of authority as attorney - this will be the certificate issued by the Court of Protection, or a certified copy of it. If you are going in person it is safe to use the original, but DON'T let them keep it or send it away. The most they should do is photocopy it.

Unfortunately not all bank branches are familiar with their duties towards people with POA. If they are difficult ask to speak to a manager.

So long as you have the proofs noted above, a bank CANNOT refuse an attorney. With a registered POA, you have a legally enforcible right to manage your mum's accounts.

The bank should simply mark you as an attorney, and give you complete access to the accounts as such. They do not become joint accounts.

Because an LPA can be registered whilst the donor (which would be your mum) still has "mental competence" then using it at the bank should NOT automatically mean your mum's access is removed. LPA's can for example be used if someone is physically unable to operate their account (at say a branch). If they want to remove your mum's access then you could challenge them on that. Banks have an obligation to remove access or freeze accounts for holders they believe are no longer able to responsibly operate said accounts.

I echo the sentiment above. I found Santander by far the most difficult bank to deal with personally, for any reason - they have hugely overstrict rules (and managed to lose impoirtant documents for my accounts - twice!). I have neve rhad any issued with NatWest; also Halifax and Nationwide are very good, espescially Halifax!

 

[Raggedrobin]

Thanks for details, Nebiroth. Annoying a few of you are anti Santander, I was thinking of opening a 123 account for mum as a way to get her interest on some savings for her in an accessible way. But then again, if I am opening an account with them would they be as difficult as if I was gaining pow over an account she already had? her current account is with Lloyds at the moment, but pays no interest.

 

[Jellytots14]

Thanks so much for this info. I have all the i.d. I need was just worried about having to take her with me. Luckily bank is Halifax.

This info has made me a lot clearer on the situation

 

[jimbo 111]

If the bank say they want to hold on to your LPA document to send to their head office for copying Do Not accept this
Ask for the name and telephone number of the person at the head office who is responsible for dealing with LPA's and ask for written confermation that the original document will be returned to you
There have been many instances where the head office have lost the document and in one instance told the holder that once they have copied the original document they shredded the original
Replacement of the original is very time consuming and expensive
jimbo 111

 

[Botilla]

I have been trailing round banks with my PoA for my parents and the experience has been varied to say the least. To find out who to contact, I would google the banks name and 'register PoA' and that usually got me to the right page on the bank's website which was a lot quicker than trying to navigate each bank's website as they are all so different.

What *should* happen is that you go to a branch, with your certified copy of the PoA, and two proofs of ID and they take you though the process and register it. But there are subtle differences for each bank, and they are sometimes baffling.

The Halifax (used for BoS) , so far, has come out best. I made an appointment to register the PoA and they actually sorted out the whole thing then and there. They faxed the certified copy of my PoA to their PoA team (in Edinburgh) who registered it while I was in the bank. It wasn't swift - it took a good hour and a half but it worked and they were helpful.

The Co-op by contrast was easily the worst. There is nothing on their website to say how to register PoA - they only thing was a link to their legal arm who want your business to set up the PoA in the first place. When I phoned their call centre the person I dealt with hadn't got a script to deal with PoA and had to ask her supervisor who gave the wrong information (I had to go to court, which was nonsense as it was already registered with the Office of the Public Guardian). After pressure from me they contacted their PoA team who told them that the advice they'd just given me was wrong and that I could just call into any branch to register it without an appointment. So I did and found the branch staff were helpful, but after I left, I heard nothing. It transpired that the Co-op's PoA team wouldn't accept either the copy of the PoA or the letter from the Office of the Public Guardian as a proof of ID, but they didn't tell me or branch. It was only when I popped in to ask what had happened that this was discovered. When I provided another it was progressed swiftly, but even then I had to call their call centre to answer a few questions (unlike any other bank) and the letter telling me to call the centre at the 'number above' didn't have a 'number above'. It was a shambles.

Nationwide didn't cover themselves in glory either; they sent the letter saying the my PoA was registered to my parents, not to me. The PoA team at Nationwide said I could get a counter cheque to pay my parent's bills on presentation of the bill at the bank, but the branch manager knew nothing of this and said I couldn't. That took two hours to resolve - the PoA team was right.

The advice I would give is that banks are different as to how they deal with PoA as their registration systems vary. They are not always consistent with their procedures and rules on PoA within the bank, as the Nationwide showed. Most banks will say that either you or the person for who you have PoA have control of the account but you can't both use the account. This does make life difficult if you have a relative who wants you look after bills, but they still want to get money out of the cashpoint.

So expect it not to be smooth and that there will be snags on the way. Also expect it to take time. The quickest visit I had to a bank was the Co-op at an hour, but that was negated by the the follow ups I had to make. You should have the PoA document kept safely - ours is with the solicitor, and you have a certified copy. No bank should retain your certified copy: they make a copy and the staff member signs it as a copy of your copy. I haven't yet had to send off my certified copy and I think I'd try to find a way to not do it, because if it gets lost, you'll need to get another from the solicitor. Also expect money laundering and the data protection act to be trotted out as excuses on a regular basis.

It's hard work and I think there has to be potential for one bank at least to take a long hard look at managing PoA and offer a decent service because I'm sure that there's potential business to be had and those of use who have to go through this need a bank which understands.

 

[Raggedrobin]

That sounds awful. It is bad enough waiting for the Pow to come back from registration, sounds like a whole lot new hoops to jump through after that.

 

[clareglen]

I had no problem with a local building society. I didn't even go in to do the POA just to deposit money but had it with me. They took a copy of the POA & wrote me up on each account. However, the DWP are another story!

 

[src123]

POA and the bank

Hi there,

I am new to posting on the forum but have been looking around for a while!

I am mums carer. I have been going to get around to registering Power of Attorney with her bank for ages and have tried to look online, but cant see anywhere whether she must come to the bank with me to register Power of Attorney? She finds things like this very stressful.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

Thanks in advance for any help

Hi -
1. No you need to register the POA with the Office of Public Guardian not the bank. Once the OPG has registered it - it will send you the validated original back. The POA is a deed authorising you to act on behalf of your relative.

2. If it is a Financial POA all you need to do is make an appointment with the bank. You can then let them know you are the POA for her financial affairs. They will then make a copy of the validated original and place you as her POA on her accounts so that you can pay her bills etc for her, even close her accounts if you are unhappy with them.

Hope this helps.

 

[karslima]

My sister and I have joint or separate power of attorney for my Dad's financial affairs. We set ourselves a target of getting this power registered for all Dad's accounts in the first 6 months of this year. (There are several institutions to register with!) We did this just in time as he has moved into very sheltered accommodation which will cost more than his pension.

I'm sorry to say that our experience has not been good. The only institution that was straightforward for POA registration was Legal and General and I put that down to the fact that they had a department that deals with POA. It's difficult to say which institution was the worst. So far we have registered POA with HBOS, Nationwide, RBS, Prudential, Legal and General, TSB.

Both my sister and I had to register twice in branch with Nationwide. They promised compensation (paid into Dad's account) for all that running around, but then they forgot to pay it!

And when HBOS asked me to register for a 3rd time I lost patience with them and told them I didn't want any compensation and was going straight to the ombudsman. They magically sorted it out then - and it shouldn't have been that hard in the first place as I bank with them.

There is no consistent process for registering across the UK banking sector and there isn't even a consistent process within the same banking organisation. It's a shambles.

The only advice I would give anyone in this situation is register with the office of the public guardian and if like us you need to deal with several institutions get a few copies of the legally certified document. Then get on and register with the bank well before you need it. And even when they say it has been done, ask for written confirmation that POA has been registered. Then do something to test it - even if it is just asking for a statement. I've lost count of the number of times I have been asked if I wanted to register POA when I had already gone through the process.

If you are applying by post send the document recorded delivery of even special delivery because these institutions really don't care about POA and if you don't have proof you sent them your documents, they will disappear into a black hole. (Happened to me with Prudential but as they had quoted the recorded delivery number in their own correspondence they couldn't deny they had received it).

Sorry about this rant, but I cannot believe how poorly the financial sector handles this. They hide behind concerns about data protection and fraud to disguise a lack of training and coherent policy.

 

[Pickles53]

I have an EPOA rather than LPA and so far only one of the banks etc. has required a certified copy; Halifax, Santander, and NatWest were happy with the photocopy I already had plus the solicitor's covering letter which he sent to me with the copy at the time the document was signed. NatWest so far have been the easiest to deal with though still sometimes get it wrong (eg they told me the card reader for online banking would be sent to my address but it actually went to mum's). Santander said they wanted mum to go to appointment when we set up the POA, neither of the others required that.

Agree that some bank staff are less knowledgeable than they should be which has led to some glitches but on the whole it has so far been one of the easier things to deal with.

 

[PeggySmith]

There was a piece on Money Box on Radio 4 today but I didn't catch all of it. Link here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0456qsg

 

[stanleypj]

There is no consistent process for registering across the UK banking sector and there isn't even a consistent process within the same banking organisation. It's a shambles.

An excellent summary karslima - welcome to TP by the way!

One more sector where dementia awareness, and all its ramifications, has barely permeated.

You can find out what should happen online - in great detail. Thank goodness for TP to forewarn you about the often dismal practice.

 

[Alib65]

Hi there,

I am new to posting on the forum but have been looking around for a while!

I am mums carer. I have been going to get around to registering Power of Attorney with her bank for ages and have tried to look online, but cant see anywhere whether she must come to the bank with me to register Power of Attorney? She finds things like this very stressful.

Does anyone know the answer to this?

Thanks in advance for any help

 

[Alib65]

I have the same problem and Barclays are telling me mum has to attend . She has only just been diagnosed after telling everyone she’s not well for well over. A year and the disease has now progressed to another level .