well my husband and myself are caring for my sons Nan, we have had a terrible week she has been verbally abusive to us both for days on end and it’s really aggressive, she has lost control of her bowels, and I discovered that the Tena pads I’ve got her which were used were put soaking wet into a bag of clean clothes in here room when I went through the bag I was nearly sick there were pads with poo all over them and all soaked in urine,so I’ve cleaned all that up and told her again to put the pads in the bin. She insists on keeping her clothes in bags on the floor, refuses to give me washing. She won’t shower, and she has been really verbally aggressive all week, well today I told her off and said “don’t speak to me like that it’s not nice to be rude to people. She has always been volatile and arrogant when dealing with people. She looked quite shocked when I told her off I’m hoping it will have a positive effect on her. I’m wondering if she is further along than we think, and is she in fact incontinent and has been hiding it. It’s been a really wearing week I’m exhausted. Well tomorrow is another day we will see what happens, has anyone else experienced this type of difficulty with personal hygiene.
God awful week
- Thread starter Kennyboy
- Start date
Hi Kenny, yes I'm afraid to say, this is pretty standard behaviour of many people with dementia. It comes as a shock at first, and don't be surprised if you're disgusted by her actions. You dont mention anything about help or carers, so if you're managing on your own, then I would recommend making a call to adult social services and having an assessment for her and getting some outside help. Keep visiting TP, its a lovely community and we're all here for each other
With toileting problems there comes a point where you have a choice between tolerating squalor or finding a way for someone to accompany the person with dementia to the loo to supervise. It's not an easy barrier to cross -- for those struggling or those helping -- but it's doable.
The fact that messy things get hidden is a sign, to me anyway, that they know there's something wrong and they're trying to solve the problem in the only way they can. When my mother became a threat to her own health I was already around most of the time and when I heard her getting frustrated with something in the bathroom I took a deep breath, hoped for the best, and.. er, 'insisted' my way in there. I found her in a right old mess and just took charge... whether she liked it or not. I felt bad. It felt wrong. But there were no other options on the table. Squalor or a solution. Mum wasn't enjoying the squalor, she was just incapable of finding a solution. I was, so I did.
Being calm, not making a big deal about anything (no matter how hard that might be!) and being prepared to wash yourself and your clothes afterwards are all part of the game. And the quicker you can get everything sorted out (involving preparation with wipes, disposable gloves, waste bags, pre-torn toilet roll, fresh underwear etc) the less the overall impact will be.
My mother was -- and still can be -- an absolute nightmare. Her reaction to dementia was always angry and frustrated, and loo life can still be a little tricky at times. But once the initial barrier came down it got easier for both of us to accept the routine, and I was totally amazed by that. Amazed that I was capable of switching off part of my brain, and amazed that Mum accepted the routine intervention so quickly. It goes back to that 'knowing they need help' thing.
But I only have experience of one person with dementia. I may just have had my only piece of luck in this whole, miserable journey. Your situation may be entirely different and what you really need is to start thinking about care homes.
I will add though that getting rid of pads and switching to disposable pants (Tena or Aldi) makes life a lot simpler. I just got rid of all Mum's one day, threw away her last few pairs of useable pants, and there was no option but the new 'comfy, cosy' pants. No more panty liner jigsaw plastered inside her pants or bedroom drawers.
Good luck. There's always another problem to confront with the dementia journey, but some are harder than others. Like most problems though, worrying about them is usually worse than tackling them.
The fact that messy things get hidden is a sign, to me anyway, that they know there's something wrong and they're trying to solve the problem in the only way they can. When my mother became a threat to her own health I was already around most of the time and when I heard her getting frustrated with something in the bathroom I took a deep breath, hoped for the best, and.. er, 'insisted' my way in there. I found her in a right old mess and just took charge... whether she liked it or not. I felt bad. It felt wrong. But there were no other options on the table. Squalor or a solution. Mum wasn't enjoying the squalor, she was just incapable of finding a solution. I was, so I did.
Being calm, not making a big deal about anything (no matter how hard that might be!) and being prepared to wash yourself and your clothes afterwards are all part of the game. And the quicker you can get everything sorted out (involving preparation with wipes, disposable gloves, waste bags, pre-torn toilet roll, fresh underwear etc) the less the overall impact will be.
My mother was -- and still can be -- an absolute nightmare. Her reaction to dementia was always angry and frustrated, and loo life can still be a little tricky at times. But once the initial barrier came down it got easier for both of us to accept the routine, and I was totally amazed by that. Amazed that I was capable of switching off part of my brain, and amazed that Mum accepted the routine intervention so quickly. It goes back to that 'knowing they need help' thing.
But I only have experience of one person with dementia. I may just have had my only piece of luck in this whole, miserable journey. Your situation may be entirely different and what you really need is to start thinking about care homes.
I will add though that getting rid of pads and switching to disposable pants (Tena or Aldi) makes life a lot simpler. I just got rid of all Mum's one day, threw away her last few pairs of useable pants, and there was no option but the new 'comfy, cosy' pants. No more panty liner jigsaw plastered inside her pants or bedroom drawers.
Good luck. There's always another problem to confront with the dementia journey, but some are harder than others. Like most problems though, worrying about them is usually worse than tackling them.
If your son's nan could see with clear eyes and an unfuddled head her behaviour now, she would be upset/disgusted/ashamed, but the woman who lived with the norms of decency and personal hygiene is gone, thanks to the ravages of dementia. Maybe she could see her GP or ask for a referral to the memory clinic for some help with the aggressive outbursts, again caused by the hateful dementiia.
This is an eye-opening time for you and you are starting to get a glimmer of how things may pan out.
I think the majority of carers have a line that, once crossed, starts the question of is it time to seek outside help with carers or admission to a care home.
My line isn't to do with incontinence, I think I will be able to cope with that if/when the time comes; I fear mum becoming immobile. I have a bad back and would not be able to manage if mum couldn't walk. With that in mind, I encourage mum to go for a walk every day, just to keep her exercised, and out of a ch for as long as possible.
Whatever happens, I wish you and your husband well, it's a thankless task being a carer, but take pride in the dignity you are giving to your son's nan.
This is an eye-opening time for you and you are starting to get a glimmer of how things may pan out.
I think the majority of carers have a line that, once crossed, starts the question of is it time to seek outside help with carers or admission to a care home.
My line isn't to do with incontinence, I think I will be able to cope with that if/when the time comes; I fear mum becoming immobile. I have a bad back and would not be able to manage if mum couldn't walk. With that in mind, I encourage mum to go for a walk every day, just to keep her exercised, and out of a ch for as long as possible.
Whatever happens, I wish you and your husband well, it's a thankless task being a carer, but take pride in the dignity you are giving to your son's nan.
Thank you for your reply, my husband and myself have cared for three other elderly family members, my mother in law, my aunty and my uncle, the incontinence doesn’t bother me I could deal with that and would willing clean her if she would let me, but she won’t and won’t shower. She is very aggressive which is what I find the hardest, I have severe Rheumatoid Arthritis and numerous health issues, but my belief has always been that you look after your family. We are as a group of 6 sharing the care but my husband and myself spend most of our time staying there so she has company. We have tried to take her out but she has started to be aggressive outside the home to other people, a young girl walked past us in the cafe and she had ripped jeans on which is the fashion she said they are disgusting I going to tear them off her, she said it so loudly that the people heard her. She complains every time we take her to a cafe that she doesn’t like the biscuits so we took some of the ones she likes but she complained about that, so going out is really stressful. I know it’s the illness but it is so so hard to deal with, we want to look after her at home until she doesn’t know us or anything else then we will look for alternatives, really hope we can do that but we will have to see how it goes, we have approached a private care company to see if they could cover a few hours to give us a break but it depends on whether she will agree to this.
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Hi, [QUOTE="Kennyboy,
I'm pretty new to forum but have been dealing with dads dementia since my mother passed away in 2016 and it became obvious that dads behavior was worse than we thought. Mixed Dementia was diagnosed in around March 2018. We noticed that dad was requesting more Tena Men Pants and I was always looking online for best deals. It was from recollection mostly urine problem however dad eventually got a UTI and was admitted to hospital with Delirium. Dad spent several days in hospital and they discovered on the day of sending him home that he couldn't cope without a catheter. I'm not sure if it was physical due to a enlarged prostate fairly common in the elderly? or his Dementia. There are a lot of posts that indicate toilet problems but to be honest catheter isn't commonly mentioned that I have seen. What I can tell you is dad then became doubly incontinent it wasn't instant but progressed a bit slowly and now has no control of his bowels at all. Hiding of pads well yes we have certainly faced that l have found them in a drawer of my late mothers clothes around 7 pads in bags and I found around 23 this summer in a wardrobe in spare bedroom plus 2 just flung on spare bedroom floor hence my hunt for more. On moving everything in the room I found a rather crusty poo flannel and another pad in open bag behind a large cardboard box. Most of them were bagged as I take packs of cheap nappy bags up to dads house. Dad has care visits four times daily but they hadn't discovered his habit the ones in drawer were in his bedroom and to be honest I smelt them but it was warm that day. I got dad a bin labelled it with his name and to put pads in bin. For the most part it has worked but he has been known to also put wet poo covered flannels around the warm pipe in airing cupboard so we have got in the habit of checking. My dad has started to get more aggressive to carers and myself sometimes sister too. Care company has called twice to say they are keeping a eye on his aggressiveness now as may have to withdraw care if it continues or accelerates. Just today my dad said to me "for your own good" before glaring at me then kicked his coffee table when all I had said was I wanted to check his freezer etc to see what shopping he needed. Its very upsetting to see him like this and to be honest I have got to the point I would like to consider him going into a Care Home but the decision is not mine. Dad would not be fully self funding so its unlikely he would be placed into care until Local Authority agree to it perhaps because carers do withdraw also my sister at the present time is unlikely to want that. My partner has Parkinson's which is progressing so I have started to change my routine of visiting dad and I am struggling with all this now. If the incontinence becomes worse you could ask for the GP to refer sons Nan to a Incontinence Clinic I am sure you will get people much more experienced than I to help answer your query but hope I have been of some help. In fact I have just noticed you have some reply's I'm a bit slow at typing but will post and catch up on the feedback you have already received with interest.
You are doing a wonderful service caring for your son's Nan but it must be harrowing for you. My husband makes an awful mess too with feces every where however he is only very occasionally abusive so I am very luck. I would suggest taking her clothes and bringing in just enough for her to change into each day. I have to do that for my husband, Then if she puts the wet and soiled pads in with the clothes at least they are dirty clothes and can go straight into the wash. The smell is awful too. It can get very depressing. She may have to go into care if she is impacting too much on your marriage or mental health. Take care of yourself and share with others. It does help. xx
Hi. My dad was diagnosed in 2016 with Vascular Dementia.He has had a catheter since 2017 when he had another stroke.He has carers in 4 times s day.He has slowly become incontinent.(only found that out by reading carers notes).He has never been shall I say a helpful individual.His first love is himself and doing what he wants.(never spent Xmas at home.He used to go to Cyprus by himself).
He can no longer walk without a gutter frame so there is no fear he will abscond.
But he has"fluctuating capacity " which is not helpful .
He can also get quite aggressive verbally.
He has agreed to go to respite but is backtracking..But after organising this he will still be going as it takes a lot to organise it.(loan of hospital bed etc)
I have stopped taking dad out as I have been diagnosed with osteoarthritis and getting him into the wheelchair and in the taxi is hard going.Plus he has to have travel sickness pills.
Plus there is never any thanks.
I find this job hard enough without more pressure.
Maybe get someone else to take her out or stop doing it.As you have a lot of medical problems it may be better for someone else to deal with..
Would she have befreinders in to take her out?
Hi Andrew thank you for your reply and sharing your experience, I would gladly assist my sons Nan with toilet issues and clean her if necessary as you say that is not the problem, she still has capacity and has always had an aggressive personality all her life, her and her husband had an extremely volatile married with her physically fighting him. She point blank refuses to shower and I have to go through the bags she keeps her clothes in to get the washing,( she insists on keeping her clothes in bags on the floor of her bedroom) what does worry me is the aggressive behaviour, I’m not well myself and she is still very strong physically, we have approached a care firm to pay for help so we can have a break, I think the time has come for them to start coming in, money is not a problem for her she will have sufficient. I think I will have to go to GP to get something to help her sleep as she is coming into our room either at 4.30 am or 5 am for us to get up as she wants her breakfast, this means that we are not getting much sleep on top of everything else. Her husband died suddenly two months ago and I think that this is having a dramatic effect on her, my heart really does go out to her but I think that she is progressing faster than we thought, again thank you for your reply it’s so good to be able to speak to people in the same situation.
I realised from your earlier post that you have way more experience than me and I'd wandered into 'granny/egg-sucking' territory. It sounds like you've really got your work cut out this time. My Mum was always a tough character to deal with, but there was no history of physical aggression which had 'trained' her to stick up for herself when backed into a corner. Plus I'm a bloke, and testosterone gives me an advantage when it comes to controlling a situation... which makes me sound like a right so and so, but I think you know what mean. Sometimes just being a bit taller and stronger allowed Mum to take her frustrations out on me without me coming to any harm.
Well, not much harm anyway. Scars fade.
Your son's gran's dementia has backed her into a corner and although fear and confusion's what's keeping her there, it seems unlikely simply being nice and patient is going to change her. I have lorazepam for emergencies, and that -- in small enough doses -- definitely reduces anxiety and can sometimes allow me to get Mum's dentures in and out without too much of a fight for essential cleaning. or simply to calm a turbulent day, allowing trust to be rebuilt.
Showering and drugs don't mix though. My mother was a hairdresser and even getting her to wash her hair is a nightmare most of the time. I gave up with regular showers or baths a long time ago and bought her some Chanel No. 5 instead! In a toilet emergency I'll insist on a shower, but it's no fun for either of us, and I hate reinforcing her fears by 'bullying' her through a quick all-over wash. Seems counterproductive.
I'm lucky though now, because me being tolerated in the loo, and when changing clothes, means there are opportunities to warm up a few wet wipes on the radiator and gives legs and feet, or armpits -- or anywhere else that soap hasn't visited for a while -- a quick wipe. That's not going to work for you, and I think until you've got some chemical help from her doc it's unlikely to change.
I've mentioned in another post that I'm currently trialling CBD oil on my Mum. The high strength stuff (necessary because hiding two drops in some fudge is easy, hiding 15 drops of weaker stuff is much harder!) is silly-expensive but I'm increasingly convinced that it works... at least for my Mum's anxiety and aggression. There are no guarantees with anything, and it's possible Mum is a bit less stable on her feet with the CBD oil as well.... I may just be paranoid though. I feel guilty about 'experimenting' on her, but... grief, her life was no picnic before, with one source of disorientation and confusion after another. She may be a bit sleepier now, but she also smiles a lot more and is more malleable for essential tasks.
Well, some of the time. Nothing's perfect. But when I stopped the CBD oil for a couple of weeks, the smiling mostly went away too. Anyway, I'm very uncomfortable with this sort of recommendation, but when folk are struggling with aggression I think it's fair to try just about anything that might help. Of course if anger levels are high, the marginal effects of CBD oil may get easily swamped by fear and adrenaline, and you just end up pouring money down the drain. But if your son's gran still has capacity and medical intervention isn't a simple option, sneaking some CBD oil into something may be better than nothing.
The oil I'm using now is 4000mg in 10ml, which is as high a concentration as it gets and way higher than the 'cheap' stuff in Holland & Barrett etc. This means it tastes more strongly, which is a bad thing, but a drop or two hidden inside some fudge (likely to stay in the mouth long enough for some of it to be absorbed 'under the tongue', which is the recommended delivery method) is easy to deliver. Twice a day seems optimal for Mum, but her aggression levels are nowhere near as high as they were. These days it's just muddly reluctance... no stage lasts forever.
Maybe that's the only thing you can really hang onto. Your son's gran won't stay like this forever. You just have to keep your sanity for long enough for that to happen. Easier said than done!
Anyway, I'll quit wasting your time with my well-intentioned waffle and say I think it's admirable what you're doing for someone who's not a direct relative. However part of me wonders if you've done your bit already in life, helping so many in the past. Maybe it's time you started looking after yourself, even if that means allowing your son's gran to 'fall apart' so social services are forced to take a greater part of the responsibility.
There are never any easy answers, are there? Good luck.
Hello Andrew thank you for you helpful replies, they are not waffle at all and whilst I’ve had experience caring for other elderly relative I’ve not had one with Alzheimer’s before, my uncle had a few strokes which did affect his personality but although he would loose it with others he was always great with me. I think I’m too soft natured and took her nastiness to heart, which my son says you can not do, he loves he it’s his Nan but he acknowledges that she is and always has been a difficult person to deal with. I’m going to have a chat to GP firstly to see if we can get something to help her sleep that would be a good start I think then we will see if the aggressive behaviour lessons. If not then yes medication will be needed for that too, I’m going to tackle washing toilet in this week and see what I can do, wishing you well and thank you for your advise and helpI realised from your earlier post that you have way more experience than me and I'd wandered into 'granny/egg-sucking' territory. It sounds like you've really got your work cut out this time. My Mum was always a tough character to deal with, but there was no history of physical aggression which had 'trained' her to stick up for herself when backed into a corner. Plus I'm a bloke, and testosterone gives me an advantage when it comes to controlling a situation... which makes me sound like a right so and so, but I think you know what mean. Sometimes just being a bit taller and stronger allowed Mum to take her frustrations out on me without me coming to any harm.
Well, not much harm anyway. Scars fade.
Your son's gran's dementia has backed her into a corner and although fear and confusion's what's keeping her there, it seems unlikely simply being nice and patient is going to change her. I have lorazepam for emergencies, and that -- in small enough doses -- definitely reduces anxiety and can sometimes allow me to get Mum's dentures in and out without too much of a fight for essential cleaning. or simply to calm a turbulent day, allowing trust to be rebuilt.
Showering and drugs don't mix though. My mother was a hairdresser and even getting her to wash her hair is a nightmare most of the time. I gave up with regular showers or baths a long time ago and bought her some Chanel No. 5 instead! In a toilet emergency I'll insist on a shower, but it's no fun for either of us, and I hate reinforcing her fears by 'bullying' her through a quick all-over wash. Seems counterproductive.
I'm lucky though now, because me being tolerated in the loo, and when changing clothes, means there are opportunities to warm up a few wet wipes on the radiator and gives legs and feet, or armpits -- or anywhere else that soap hasn't visited for a while -- a quick wipe. That's not going to work for you, and I think until you've got some chemical help from her doc it's unlikely to change.
I've mentioned in another post that I'm currently trialling CBD oil on my Mum. The high strength stuff (necessary because hiding two drops in some fudge is easy, hiding 15 drops of weaker stuff is much harder!) is silly-expensive but I'm increasingly convinced that it works... at least for my Mum's anxiety and aggression. There are no guarantees with anything, and it's possible Mum is a bit less stable on her feet with the CBD oil as well.... I may just be paranoid though. I feel guilty about 'experimenting' on her, but... grief, her life was no picnic before, with one source of disorientation and confusion after another. She may be a bit sleepier now, but she also smiles a lot more and is more malleable for essential tasks.
Well, some of the time. Nothing's perfect. But when I stopped the CBD oil for a couple of weeks, the smiling mostly went away too. Anyway, I'm very uncomfortable with this sort of recommendation, but when folk are struggling with aggression I think it's fair to try just about anything that might help. Of course if anger levels are high, the marginal effects of CBD oil may get easily swamped by fear and adrenaline, and you just end up pouring money down the drain. But if your son's gran still has capacity and medical intervention isn't a simple option, sneaking some CBD oil into something may be better than nothing.
The oil I'm using now is 4000mg in 10ml, which is as high a concentration as it gets and way higher than the 'cheap' stuff in Holland & Barrett etc. This means it tastes more strongly, which is a bad thing, but a drop or two hidden inside some fudge (likely to stay in the mouth long enough for some of it to be absorbed 'under the tongue', which is the recommended delivery method) is easy to deliver. Twice a day seems optimal for Mum, but her aggression levels are nowhere near as high as they were. These days it's just muddly reluctance... no stage lasts forever.
Maybe that's the only thing you can really hang onto. Your son's gran won't stay like this forever. You just have to keep your sanity for long enough for that to happen. Easier said than done!
Anyway, I'll quit wasting your time with my well-intentioned waffle and say I think it's admirable what you're doing for someone who's not a direct relative. However part of me wonders if you've done your bit already in life, helping so many in the past. Maybe it's time you started looking after yourself, even if that means allowing your son's gran to 'fall apart' so social services are forced to take a greater part of the responsibility.
There are never any easy answers, are there? Good luck.
Hello @Kennyboy, that's our criteria as well, keep mum with us until she doesn't know us, and then review the situation.
Of course, that doesn't take into account my bad back and OH failing health - he is awaiting heart surgery! We look after mum so well, sometimes I think she will outlast us - seriously - and then I start having mean thoughts about the retirement OH and I had planned which have been forgotten since mum moved in with us..
I try not to think to often about what might of been and concentrate on what is. My mum was a lovely mum and our plan is to keep her with us, as long as we don't conk out first.
Mum is not aggressive (not at that stage yet) but definitely speaks her mind, usually pointing out people on the large side (that's the polite way of saying it, mum's way not so polite!), she literally says what she sees and has lost all notion of some things are better unsaid.
If you told your son's nan that the doctor has said you and your husband need a break otherwise you won't be able to carry on looking after, would that swing it with her?
Keep posting = de-stressing.
xx
