LA brokerage & top-up contributions

[Jenni_B]

Hi,

My sister had first Financial Assessment for her husband yesterday. He currently lives at home and she is his sole carer. As anticipated, for respite care he will be self-funding for a short while. Couple of queries:

I gather the assessor told my sister that the LA brokerage scheme might work out cheaper than organising respite in-home or outside privately. Is that the experience of any of you here? Thought I'd ask before she goes rushing into it.

Also, I wonder if my sister should ask for more clarification on something else. The assessor apparently said that if they reach the £23,250 threshold and then BIL goes into residential care, as things stand now (accepting that the law could change), they "would have to contribute round about £247 a month and the LA would have to find the rest." But wouldn't "the rest" have an upper limit for the council? I don't think the assessor specified any such limit. However, if they only fund, say, £650pw, and my sister wanted her husband to go to a CH that charges £1,000pw (which most do, locally), wouldn't my sister be expected to bridge the gap somehow? Or am I misunderstanding the system? I just suspect there may be a catch my sister isn't aware of.

 

[nitram]

"would have to contribute round about £247 a month and the LA would have to find the rest."

Firstly any top up is optional, the LA have to find a placement that does not require a top up or pay more themselves. Typically it will not an ideal home, if you want him to go elsewhere you can pay a voluntary top up.

Secondly the amount the LA will pay includes all of his state pension and half of any state pension.

 

[Louise7]

Local authorities can sometimes negotiate reduced charges with care homes but I don't know whether that also applies to respite care - hopefully someone here will have experience of this.

LA's will have a maximum amount that they will pay towards care home fees, which is set by individual LA's so varies. As Nitram has stated, the LA is legally obliged to provide at least one home which will meet the individual's needs and is within their maximum budget. You sister would need to find out what the limit is for her LA - sometimes this is posted on their website - but (from experience) it is unlikely to be anywhere near the amount that most care homes charge so your sister is unlikely to have much choice as to where her husband is placed. If she wanted to place him in a home which costs more than the LA will fund than she could pay a 'top up' herself but as Nitram has said, this would be entirely voluntary.

 

[Jenni_B]

@nitram @Louise7 Many thanks. That's more or less what I thought, but I'm especially grateful for clarity on the rather crucial point that the LA's maximum amount includes the state pension and half of private pension.

So I'm not sure what the assessor's "about £247 a month" refers to. Perhaps she was calculating additional amount (on top of pensions) for when their finances are between the upper £23,250 threshold and the lower one (around £14,000?). That's me thinking aloud, really. I need to ask my sister if she is clear about this, as I think there's room for misunderstanding.

Will be interested to hear anyone's experience of LA brokering. My gut feel is it could be a waste of money, and the brokerage fee might cancel out any saving on CH cost. I imagine it might be worth considering if a carer hasn't the energy or time to phone round all the CHs, but in my sister's case there are family members who could help with that.

 

[Louise7]

If someone has capital between the £23,250 upper threshold and the £14,250 lower threshold a 'tariff income' applies:

If your capital is between the two thresholds, the local authority may start to contribute towards the care home fees, depending on your income. You must still be left with your PEA. A person with assets between the two capital limits will pay what they can afford from their income, plus a means-tested contribution from their assets (calculated as £1 per week for every £250 of capital between the capital limits).

The PEA is a personal expenses allowance (around £25 weekly) which the person is allowed to keep to pay for things like toiletries, clothes, hair cuts, chiropody etc.

 

[Jenni_B]

Thanks @Louise7. Takes some getting one's head around. Massive PEA!!!

 

[rainbowcat]

If someone has capital between the £23,250 upper threshold and the £14,250 lower threshold a 'tariff income' applies:

If your capital is between the two thresholds, the local authority may start to contribute towards the care home fees, depending on your income. You must still be left with your PEA. A person with assets between the two capital limits will pay what they can afford from their income, plus a means-tested contribution from their assets (calculated as £1 per week for every £250 of capital between the capital limits).

The PEA is a personal expenses allowance (around £25 weekly) which the person is allowed to keep to pay for things like toiletries, clothes, hair cuts, chiropody etc.

So could someone please clarify...:
* if my father has a private pension of £1,3k a month, a state pension of £136 a week, and savings of £8k, would he be left with just £25 per week if he's LA funded?

(thanks OP for starting this thread, as it's confused me too!)

 

[Jenni_B]

So could someone please clarify...:
* if my father has a private pension of £1,3k a month, a state pension of £136 a week, and savings of £8k, would he be left with just £25 per week if he's LA funded?

(thanks OP for starting this thread, as it's confused me too!)

@rainbowcat - I've found this LA circular which might shed some additional light for you.
https://assets.publishing.service.g..._charging_for_care_and_support_-_LAC_2019.pdf

Looks to my inexpert eye that if your father were LA funded in a care home he would be left with £25pw spending money from his pension(s). What I don't understand is what happens to his £8k savings in this scenario. Because that's below the lower threshold of savings, it looks as though the LA can't touch it. So can you father use it to top up his spending money or for anything else?

If he's not in a CH but receiving LA-funded care in his own home, then the Minimum Income Guarantee comes into force (p4 of circular). Regardless of his 8k savings, presumably.

 

[canary]

So can you father use it to top up his spending money or for anything else?

He can certainly use it for spending money - buying clothes etc, but what he cant do is use it to pay top-up fees. Top-up fees have to come from a third party.

 

[Louise7]

Yes, in Mum's assessment she is allowed to keep the £25 PEA amount to spend as is required, and also keeps her savings, which are below the minimum threshold of £14,250. As Canary has said, the savings can be spent on anything (apart from top up fees to pay for the care home) and you may want to think about buying a funeral plan with the savings if there isn't already one in place.

 

[Jenni_B]

Good idea about the funeral plan. Hadn't thought of that and doubt my sister and BIL will have either.

 

[rainbowcat]

Thanks for clarifying, yes I meant care home fees

 

[Roseleigh]

If the PWD goes into a care home initially self funding, when the LA takes over can they force you to move them somewhere cheaper?

 

[Kevinl]

If the PWD goes into a care home initially self funding, when the LA takes over can they force you to move them somewhere cheaper?

If the PWD goes into a care home initially self funding, when the LA takes over can they force you to move them somewhere cheaper?

In a word, yes. The LA will have a figure they will pay and have to find a home able to cover their needs within that amount, if you want of want to remain somewhere more expensive then a third party has to pay a top up to cover the difference.
K

 

[AliceA]

These answers are more or less what I have found out, it has been like pulling hens teeth.
However we live in a long narrow county so there are no homes brokerage have offered near enough for any visitors. There are a over the border suitable. The one offered is a more general mental health placement with a unit for dementia symptoms but not a dedicated just for dementia. It depends on bed places too. It is still too far for regular visits with no transport links.
I cannot see top ups being possible, perhaps in the short term but very short term, the county is a very low payer, far lower than surrounding counties.
The human rights act gives a right to a family life. Regular visits uphold this.
Any advice?

 

[canary]

Do you have a care home in mind @AliceA ?
If its not much more than the lowest charging ones, you might be lucky. No harm in trying.

 

[AliceA]

Yes, it is just a under 2 miles away but over the county border.
It is a bit dearer than the place with commissioned beds that are retained prepaid. full or empty, so a very low rate. The full rate is not much less but they do not use that rate. It is too far and difficult to get to get to, it is over an hour at good times or much more on very busy roads. Not the sort of journey I could ask a elderly neighbour to do. Not even volunteers would be that happy.
Not that I would agree to such a place.
Ironically we lived over the border until four years ago.
I have asked for a list of places from LA. south of the city.
I have thrown it back to them at the moment.

 

[Jenni_B]

@AliceA Brokerage experience you've had doesn't sound helpful at all - and the whole cross-county complication must be an extra nightmare. Good that you've thrown it back at the LA for now. I do hope they come up with a satisfactory answer.

 

[AliceA]

@AliceA Brokerage experience you've had doesn't sound helpful at all - and the whole cross-county complication must be an extra nightmare. Good that you've thrown it back at the LA for now. I do hope they come up with a satisfactory answer.

Thank you, I did feel that the LA were trying to rush me into agreeing. But a bad respite is worse than no respite isn't it. Brokerage is nameless and faceless too. We are just names and numbers, I feel.