No LPA

Nutsysmum

New member
Jun 26, 2019
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0
Mum had alz and has just been diagnosed with cancer. Dad at exactly same time diagnosed Vascular dementia.

Advised to find a care home for both.

This is tricky enough, but all are concerned that Mum hasn't a LPA. Dad has with us girls as attorneys. Mum was too far before dad accepted her condition.

The care homes are worried that mum hasn't got LPA. She is social services funded and doctors doing the chc as we speak.

Why are care homes concerned and more importantly, who has the power over mum? Us or who?
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
0
London
Without an LPA no one really.
You can however still apply for deputyship, although this is quite expensive and onerous.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
At the moment no one has power over your mum.
If you cant get LPA, then I really think that you need to get CoP deputyship. If you dont apply, then once they are LA funded the LA will apply, because someone has to have power over finances for both of them.
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,324
0
@canary, as the mum is LA funded there isn't much in the way of finances for the CH to worry about though is there? If they want access to her pension there is another way of doing that isn't there - where someone looks after just their DWP dealings, can't remember what it's called? And I thought a deputyship wouldn't be given for health/welfare? Sorry for all the questions, but I know you know a lot about it.
 

canary

Registered User
Feb 25, 2014
25,018
0
South coast
@Sirena - even though the LA will probably be paying care home fees, there will be other things that will need administering (payment for hairdresser, chiropodist etc) and someone will have to sign a contract too.
You are right that deputyship is only given in very unusual circumstances.

When it was first decided that mum needed to move to a care home - long before there was any talk of whether she would be LA funded, or not, the LA contacted me to ask whether I was willimg to apply for deputyship, because if I didnt want to then they would start the proceedings straight away.
 

joanne d

Registered User
Feb 9, 2013
44
0
Mum had alz and has just been diagnosed with cancer. Dad at exactly same time diagnosed Vascular dementia.

Advised to find a care home for both.

This is tricky enough, but all are concerned that Mum hasn't a LPA. Dad has with us girls as attorneys. Mum was too far before dad accepted her condition.

The care homes are worried that mum hasn't got LPA. She is social services funded and doctors doing the chc as we speak.

Why are care homes concerned and more importantly, who has the power over mum? Us or who?
Hi there,
Both my parents had dementia. My brother had POA for dad but no one for mum. They were both admitted into care within a week of one another. Social Services did a DOLS assessment and spoke to both mum and dad separately to establish if they had capacity. I was present as advocate. It was established that they could not make their own decisions so Social Services made it for them ie It was in their best interests to be admitted into care. At no time did the care home insist on POA. Although it did cause problems with financial management. I was advised to apply for deputyship for my mum to manage her finances but it did not seem like an obstacle regarding their care.
Sadly they have both since passed away and I am in the process, as executor of getting their affairs in order. I understand POA dies with you so , so far there have not been any issues...
In my experience social services have no reason to insist on deputyship or POA for the process of care home funding. But then again, every case is different and others may beg to differ?
Good luck,
Jo.
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
hello @Nutsysmum
a warm welcome to DTP
it's tough on you looking out for both your parents

I wonder whether the nursing home is concerned that Social Services may consider that your mum could live in her own home with a hefty care package in place and so would take steps to move her
however, given your mum's health issues this seems unlikely
or that the LA may not agree to pay the full fee
maybe have a conversation with the hospital SW/discharge officer to find out exactly what is being recommended ... though as you say you have been advised to look into residential care, I assume this is not merely the family's choice it is the LA's also ... the LA must act in your mum's best interests ... and if your mum is fully funded the LA are required to offer at least one placement that they will fully pay for

you also say your dad is moving into residential care ... if they owned their own home, this may lead to them both being self-funders, unless your mum does qualify for the CHC funding
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-financial/who-pays-care

you could apply to become your mum's DWP appointee
https://www.gov.uk/become-appointee-for-someone-claiming-benefits
and her Deputy for finance
https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy
 

Sirena

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
2,324
0
Ah yes thanks @canary you're right, there will be other bits and pieces as you mention which will need to be paid, although I doubt the CH would be too troubled about £20 a month. I guess it is more about who signs the contract.

The role I was thinking of is DWP appointee, as linked above by Shedrech.
 

Vicky3116

New member
Aug 3, 2019
8
0
If there is no LPA then no one will have the power as you put it, it would simply mean that any decisions that need to be made would have to be done so in your mums best interest. A best interest meeting would need to be held with health professionals and family members, all views and opinions would be taken into consideration and a decision made. If you are not happy with the decision then a IMCA can be sort and someone would act on your mums behalf.
 

Nutsysmum

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
0
Thank you all.

It has been a terrible couple of months.

Mum died 3 weeks ago from an underlying cancer we or the drs hadn't seen until she was admitted. So the POA issue was not finally relevant.

Dad entered the care home on discharge 2 hours after mum died. We had no option as we had no contact from the discharge team. Whilst the care home was good to him, his own home would have been better if we had had support.

A warning to others here is that once across the hospital threshold, the NHS social care side is non existent if it has not been arranged. Furthermore, in our case community social services were not interested as the NHS did not tell them Dad was discharged.

Indeed, the interest level of social services is now minimal because Dad is self funding despite the LA doing the brokerage on our behalf.

Dad now back in hospital following another UTI induced delerium but should be out next week. There will be no mistakes made this time. We should be able to get him home if NHS social services play ball.

There are more horror stories to this, but there is not enough space
 

Nutsysmum

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
0
Thank you all.

It has been a terrible couple of months.

Mum died 3 weeks ago from an underlying cancer we or the drs hadn't seen until she was admitted. So the POA issue was not finally relevant.

Dad entered the care home on discharge 2 hours after mum died. We had no option as we had no contact from the discharge team. Whilst the care home was good to him, his own home would have been better if we had had support.

A warning to others here is that once across the hospital threshold, the NHS social care side is non existent if it has not been arranged. Furthermore, in our case community social services were not interested as the NHS did not tell them Dad was discharged.

Indeed, the interest level of social services is now minimal because Dad is self funding despite the LA doing the brokerage on our behalf.

Dad now back in hospital following another UTI induced delerium but should be out next week. There will be no mistakes made this time. We should be able to get him home if NHS social services play ball.

There are more horror stories to this, but there is not enough space
I’m sorry about your Mum @Nutsysmum. My thoughts are with you.
I’m sorry about your Mum @Nutsysmum. My thoughts are with you.
I’m sorry about your Mum @Nutsysmum. My thoughts are with you.
 

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
4,693
0
Sorry to hear about your Mum.

Unfortunately, as you have discovered, getting access to a hospital social worker can be difficult, and it is common for social services not to get involved if someone is self-funding. Families are just left to get on with things.

Just to clarify, the NHS doesn't have it's own social services. In my Mum's case the hospital had an integrated discharge team which included local authority social workers who were based in the hospital. As you have LPA for your Dad, and he is self-funding, it's unlikely that social services will be involved in his discharge. Not sure what you mean by 'we should be able to get him home if NHS social services play ball'? If you'd like them to undertake a care needs assessment for your Dad and arrange carers via their brokerage team then you will need to be proactive and contact the hospital based social work team yourself. This may however delay your Dad's discharge so if you have the funding I'd recommend arranging for carers yourself as a lengthy hospital admission is not good for those with dementia. Like you I have plenty of 'horror stories' about the care system, including a safeguarding investigation which was upheld against the carers who were provided by social services....
 

Nutsysmum

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
0
Sorry for the multi replies - too early on a Sunday morning.

Thank you Cat. It had really not been easy. I'm hoping to get Dad home on Tuesday. He does have an LPA so when the time comes things will be more manageable.

We paid £3500 for the care home for 3 weeks. Dad had been in the hospital for 4 weeks before that and now a further week and a bit. The Local Authority through Capita are now demanding over £1000 plus brokerage fee for his self funded care package that was not delivered due to him not being there. The care provider is aghast and disgusted because they will not see that money and had not billed for it.

The excuse... Dad has to keep paying to get a good rate but because he's not there he has to pay on top to bring it up to the normal private rate. I can't get my head round that. What if he passes on, does his estate pay forever?

We never signed a contract nor saw Ts&C's nor received a copy of the financial assessment. I did it with the assessor but she whisked it away never to be seen.

Needless to say I have paid the few days worth of care he received for that period but am withholding the rest with the words....take me to court!

If they refuse to broker care then we will just go completely independent as he is self funding.

What on earth do people do if they don't have family support - get fleeced?
 

Nutsysmum

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
0
Sorry to hear about your Mum.

Unfortunately, as you have discovered, getting access to a hospital social worker can be difficult, and it is common for social services not to get involved if someone is self-funding. Families are just left to get on with things.

Just to clarify, the NHS doesn't have it's own social services. In my Mum's case the hospital had an integrated discharge team which included local authority social workers who were based in the hospital. As you have LPA for your Dad, and he is self-funding, it's unlikely that social services will be involved in his discharge. Not sure what you mean by 'we should be able to get him home if NHS social services play ball'? If you'd like them to undertake a care needs assessment for your Dad and arrange carers via their brokerage team then you will need to be proactive and contact the hospital based social work team yourself. This may however delay your Dad's discharge so if you have the funding I'd recommend arranging for carers yourself as a lengthy hospital admission is not good for those with dementia. Like you I have plenty of 'horror stories' about the care system, including a safeguarding investigation which was upheld against the carers who were provided by social services....
 

Cat27

Registered User
Feb 27, 2015
13,057
0
Merseyside
Sorry for the multi replies - too early on a Sunday morning.

Thank you Cat. It had really not been easy. I'm hoping to get Dad home on Tuesday. He does have an LPA so when the time comes things will be more manageable.

We paid £3500 for the care home for 3 weeks. Dad had been in the hospital for 4 weeks before that and now a further week and a bit. The Local Authority through Capita are now demanding over £1000 plus brokerage fee for his self funded care package that was not delivered due to him not being there. The care provider is aghast and disgusted because they will not see that money and had not billed for it.

The excuse... Dad has to keep paying to get a good rate but because he's not there he has to pay on top to bring it up to the normal private rate. I can't get my head round that. What if he passes on, does his estate pay forever?

We never signed a contract nor saw Ts&C's nor received a copy of the financial assessment. I did it with the assessor but she whisked it away never to be seen.

Needless to say I have paid the few days worth of care he received for that period but am withholding the rest with the words....take me to court!

If they refuse to broker care then we will just go completely independent as he is self funding.

What on earth do people do if they don't have family support - get fleeced?

I think you’ll benefit from having a chat with our helpline

National Dementia Helpline
0300 222 11 22
Our helpline advisers are here for you.
Helpline opening hours:
Monday to Wednesday 9am – 8pm
Thursday and Friday 9am – 5pm
Saturday and Sunday 10am – 4pm
 

Nutsysmum

New member
Jun 26, 2019
8
0
Originally when Mum was self funded and on verge of leaving hospital, the social services team there as part of the discharge team and not connected to the Local Authority, arranged rapid response care, fully funded until the care package was reinstated.

We are hoping the same applies to Dad because there is no capacity over the summer fir the care companies to come in due to summer holidays. It will take another couple of weeks for them to get the manpower. Additionally his needs have changed so we need to know what he will require and putting the original package back in may not be safe.

So a week or so of rapid response which will include physio OT and community nurses will inform us to what is needed.

He is still with us to insist he will only pay what is essential, and will at present refuse to go into a residential home because of the cost. He feels that he has contributed to the community all his life and doesn't want to be penalised financially for being prudent.

This has two outcomes a) revolving door hospital admissions or b) recognition he will lose all his money and have to eventually enter residential care. But we have to give him the option to realise that himself. We cannot take all his control away just yet.

So let's see what the discharge team come up with. They need the bed.