Usefulness of Tenants in Common. Gifts=Deprivation of Assets?

[Kamperfan]

I posted a question on this forum last year and received some useful answers so here I am again.
I've just returned to the UK for a few months to help Mum (nearly 87 y.o.) cope with Dad (83) who has Alzheimer's.
Unfortunately I can only stay in the UK for a few months and Mum can't look after Dad alone so it's likely that he will have to go into care later this year.
I've been abroad for the best part of 30 years so I'm not particularly knowledgeable about my parents' affairs or UK law but I do know that back in 2014 they consulted a solicitor who helped them make wills, financial powers of attorney and change the status of the property to tenants in common.
On Tuesday my brother and I will accompany Mum to meet another solicitor for a review of the situation so I would would like to be better informed when I meet him.
So my first question is .. how does tenants in common status benefit them? From what I've read a law change means that since 2007 married couples have been able to transfer their inheritance tax allowance to each other anyway without changing to tenants in common status. And how does it protect the property from being used to pay for care home fees?
Second, my parents have always been generous to my brother and I on birthdays and at Christmas. Long before Dad showed any sign of memory problems they were giving us £1000-£2000 per year each (it's all documented in bank statements and savings books) and in recent years as my parents have become less active and spent less from their pensions and savings on themselves they have given us £3000-£5000 per year each. If these gifts have been happening on a regular basis over many years, could they be regarded as deprivation of assets? I would be interested to read the experiences of others.
Thanks

 

[nitram]

how does tenants in common status benefit them?

If your Mum predeceases your Dad she can bequeath her share of the property to A N Other than your Dad, this takes it out of reach of the LA to use to fund Mum's care, For info, with joint tenancy Mum's share would pass to Dad outside of any will.

And how does it protect the property from being used to pay for care home fees?

As long as your Mum stays in the house it is disregarded in any financial assessment by the LA .
With tenants in common if Mum predeceases Dad the LA will expect the house to be sold but will only get half the value if Mum has not left her share to Dad

Unless your parents are very wealthy with gifts of the size you mention your Dad's share is likely to be regarded as deprecation from the time that it was obvious he would need care.

 

[canary]

My OH and I changed the ownership of our house from joint owners to tenants in common a couple of years ago. The reason for this was so that we could bequeath our individual share of the property to our children in our will. All the while I am alive and living in our house it will be disregarded if/when he moves into a care home, but if I died and he then moved into a care home the house would be sold to fund his care. However, he would not have inherited my share - that will go to our children and only his half will be used to fund his care. If we had remained as joint owners then he would have inherited all of it. It is not deprivation of assets as my half never belonged to him and will not belong to him after my death.

The gifts are more of a grey area IMO. The rules are that gifts should be in line with what has always been given, but those sort of amounts will probably raise eyebrows.

 

[witts1973]

I wish that my parents had been savvy enough to have protected our home,we just didn't ever think that anything like dementia would happen so it didn't occur to us,with care fees being a hot topic now people must be running to the solicitors trying to protect the family home,sadly I'm under 60 but have lived in our home for 45 years,I would imagine the people involved in those LA departments responsible for finance of care have given their loved ones the nod to safeguard their own properties as they know what may be approaching them.

 

[Theresalwaystomorrow]

This is why the government has to sort this unfair cost out once and for all, if not, as you say Most people who have experience of family with paying out their savings or selling property will be safeguarding their own assets to make sure It don’t happen to them .
In 20yrs time a high percentage of people with dementia / Alzheimer’s would of already off loaded their assets and where will the nhs be then?
I have experience of pwd self funding and somebody in next room had the savy to put their bungalow in their children’s names 10 yrs ago so now don’t have to use their hard earned money to unfairly fund
We can only learn from this until something changes

 

[witts1973]

Yes it's a kick in the teeth particularly if you have been a care giver like me and there are some people like me that have been so attached to a parent that they felt unable to leave them and so have stayed at home,yes there is the slight chance that they could disregard but I bet they are ruthless when it comes to that now.
I give my mum the most amazing care at home which is commented on by health professionals that visit our home,but I still have to look over my shoulder and think about being made homeless in the future,that's the part that is draining,I wanted to pass this home down to my son,who is 16 now and has had 6 homes living with his mum,I have him half of the time and this has been his secure place,it's so sad.
Oh well thats my rant over for today,lets look forward to some sunshine soon.

 

[nitram]

In 20yrs time a high percentage of people with dementia / Alzheimer’s would of already off loaded their assets and where will the nhs be then?
I have experience of pwd self funding and somebody in next room had the savy to put their bungalow in their children’s names 10 yrs ago so now don’t have to use their hard earned money to unfairly fund

We can only learn from this until something changes

The change could be the introduction of filial responsibility, currently law in some parts of Europe and the US

 

[LadyA]

Just on the matter of gifts. The Power of Attorney situation is slightly different here. I'm in the process of drawing up an Enduring Power of Attorney at the moment, in case my daughter should ever need it. We have two types of POA - Enduring Power of Attorney, which would only ever be used if the person loses mental capacity (and when the time comes, it must be registered in the Courts, but the person must be examined for capacity by both a Solicitor & a doctor). And an ordinary Power of Attorney, which would be used if, for example, you were away for a lengthy period or in hospital for some other reason and unable to deal with your affairs at home - but you had full mental capacity. The ordinary POA becomes invalid immediately if you lose mental capacity. And an EPA cannot be registered if (as my Solicitor said she had one case recently) a doctor feels the loss of capacity could be temporary.

Anyway - one of the things the Solicitor recommended to me was that I start now, when I'm relatively young and certainly there's no question of my capacity, to keep a notebook and to just write in there a note of all gifts I give my family, and the cost. So that, in the event of the EPA ever having to be registered, my daughter will be able to continue to do that, and if necessary, will have documentary proof going back (hopefully!) many years that it was indeed my habit. She said it's a very simple thing, but could make life easier if it came to it. So, I've already started my notebook!

 

[jugglingmum]

My mum was in the habit of giving us reasonable sized birthday and christmas presents, not as big as you mention though, so £250 each at Christmas and birthday ie £1000 a couple a year. I have continued this. She is not in a care home yet, something I realise could happen any minute, or in 5 years time, she is accumulating savings as income exceeds expenditure in her sheltered extra care flat and she has in excess of 10 years of care home fees in savings so I don't forsee this being an issue, however if she was in a care home and savings were running down I would stop the gifts.

If your father does not have sufficient savings to fund his care for a good few years, then the point at which problems arose is the point at which the gifts become an issue.

 

[Kamperfan]

Great responses. Thanks to everyone for the input. If anything interesting emerges from Tuesday's meeting with the solicitor I shall post info here.