My father in law has dementia and Parkinson's and several years ago we put powers of attorney in place so my husband and I could look after this health and wealth. This has run in the background without any problems until his wife said she was taking his housekeeping debit card away from him and recommended we do the same with his personal accounts as he couldn't remember what he was spending his money on. So we had a family conference and came to an agreement with her and her son that Dad would pay into the joint account over twice as much as her because his income was over twice as much. The joint account was to pay for respite for dad as well. This worked for 6 months and then she started to worry about the dwindling balance in the joint account, she asked me to look into the account so we would agree to pay in more money. We discovered she was overspending on things and tried to get her to agree to either reduce the spending or both of them jointly fund more money into the account, this was refused. Then to our disbelief she walked Dad into the bank and building society and removed the power of attorney on both accounts and cancelled our access, also has told us via her son, that if we darken her door she will call the police, not that this is stopping us seeing dad. We have complained to both the bank and building society but both say that Dad was able to answer the identification questions and refuse the reversal of this action. Dads NHS caseworker is taking a long time to get back to us, Any ideas anyone?
Power of attorney reversed
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The LPA has been "unregistered" from the bank. But the LPA document is still in place at the office of the public guardian. To fully dismantle the LPA requires a legal process with the office of the public Guardian. That would be quite a complex and lengthy process for everyone to go through.
You could go back to the bank to understand if you can re-register the LPA on the account. However if it is a joint account and the LPA only covers one of the people then the other person (non dementia) may have to agree and would probably be informed by the bank.
You could go back to the bank to understand if you can re-register the LPA on the account. However if it is a joint account and the LPA only covers one of the people then the other person (non dementia) may have to agree and would probably be informed by the bank.
Reading
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/thr...-with-a-bank-when-you-register-an-lpa.111975/
is the LPA in respect of your father in law and the account a joint one with his wife who has not granted an LPA.
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/thr...-with-a-bank-when-you-register-an-lpa.111975/
is the LPA in respect of your father in law and the account a joint one with his wife who has not granted an LPA.
Unless your FIL has capacity to revoke the finance LPA and does so then set up a new individual bank account for him at another bank under the LPA and arrange for all of his pensions etc to go into that and just pay for things directly from it for him, or pay money to his wife for his expenses from it if that is a workable arrangement.
We went into the branch the day after it was done, as her son didn't let us know that she had done this until after banks had closed the day before, and they say we can't do anything without his permission because it's done already. I have checked with which legal and they said write a letter explaining his condition and they still wouldn't shift. It's dad's own account not a joint one.
We are unable to open anything as his wife holds all his proof of identy, so we assume that we would have to get his dementia team to confirm his status, to force the re-registration of the LAP, but they are dragging their feet on it.
I sympathise with the situation you're now in. Do you need proof of the PWD's identity to open an account? You don't need it to register the LPA with an existing bank account, you only need the LPA and proof of your OWN identity.
(I'm thinking of opening an additional account for my mother and don't have any proof of identity for her, she has no passport and never learned to drive, it never occurred to me I'd need it.)
When I opened some accounts for dad as his attorney I didn't have id for him but needed to provide evidence of his UK residency and was asked for a letter from his NH and copy of anything from DWP although I seem to remember other sources of info were also acceptable.... in his case statement of state pension.
Oh interesting, thank you. I've got DWP letters for sure so may have what they require, although her paperwork came to me in such a mess it will depend exactly what they ask for. Thanks for the info.
hi @Debaters
welcome to TP
money matters can certainly get tricky
Attorneys may support the donor in managing their finances as soon as an LPA is registered with the OPG with the permission of the donor if the donor has capacity, and can take on full responsibility for managing the finances should the donor be deemed to no longer have capacity
I'm not sure which applies in your dad's situation
if he has capacity (which the banks seem to be saying is what they believe) he can manage his finances as he wishes, including making 'unwise' decisions and deciding he wants to manage his finances without support from the Attorneys
if he no longer has capacity, the Attorneys take on the management of finances, which is straight forward as far as accounts in his name only are concerned, trickier with joint accounts
I guess you are caught in the issue of whether your dad has capacity
you also mention that his wife is, in your opinion, overspending, which seems to be what has led to them going to the banks - maybe she hasn't been as careful with money as you might have hoped; I can appreciate, though, that as his spouse she may well have been upset by questioning of her spending which generally is a private issue between spouses and may be how the two of them have always run their finances - though, I appreciate, it may also be part of your dad's reasoning in choosing his Attorneys
welcome to TP
money matters can certainly get tricky
Attorneys may support the donor in managing their finances as soon as an LPA is registered with the OPG with the permission of the donor if the donor has capacity, and can take on full responsibility for managing the finances should the donor be deemed to no longer have capacity
I'm not sure which applies in your dad's situation
if he has capacity (which the banks seem to be saying is what they believe) he can manage his finances as he wishes, including making 'unwise' decisions and deciding he wants to manage his finances without support from the Attorneys
if he no longer has capacity, the Attorneys take on the management of finances, which is straight forward as far as accounts in his name only are concerned, trickier with joint accounts
I guess you are caught in the issue of whether your dad has capacity
you also mention that his wife is, in your opinion, overspending, which seems to be what has led to them going to the banks - maybe she hasn't been as careful with money as you might have hoped; I can appreciate, though, that as his spouse she may well have been upset by questioning of her spending which generally is a private issue between spouses and may be how the two of them have always run their finances - though, I appreciate, it may also be part of your dad's reasoning in choosing his Attorneys
Just to let you all know. It seems all we had to do come end up is walk Dad back into both bank and building society and let him tell the managers about why he did what he did. Of course he couldn't remember anything about it and was upset that his son was no longer on the accounts acting as his poa, his conversations were one on one, we were not in the room. Both accounts immediately had the poa's reinstated and my father in law's authorisation to revoke removed. Meanwhile while she (his wife) had had access to his building society she got dad to remove £2000 to supplement their joint account. Lesson learnt. Hopefully this will help someone else. Dad is now permanently in a care home where she took him once we got control of his money back.
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