LPA attorney overseas

[charlie10]

I know this would be extremely difficult to make work, but if BiL refuses to do PoA for himself and my husband for their dad, is there any way we could make it work with just my husband, bearing in mind we.re across the world. Legally, attorneys don't have to be in the UK (govt website) but would he have to go to the UK to sign it etc?

And then if he did get it, could we possibly 'run' it, if it became necessary, at arms' length? If it was Europe with cheap fares I can see possibilities, but a 48hr journey and plane fares etc is just impossible.....unfortunately my husband was made redundant and we just don't have the money for more than a dire emergency dash. I'm clutching at straws here but the alternative of doing nothing doesn't seem to be any better....leaving it to a stranger appointed by CoP (and presumably it would be my FiL who would have to pick up the bill for that?) There's no-one else we could even think of asking to be his attorney

This is all, of course,predicated on FiL still agreeing to the LPA when presented with it

 

[Louise7]

Could your husband and his brother both be attorneys as joint & several? In relation to a Financial POA, providing the finances aren't complicated it is not too onerous a job being the attorney. Once the POA has been registered with the bank you can request internet banking and arrange for bills etc to be paid by direct debit. Your husband could then maybe agree to deal with any ongoing paperwork & correspondence via email and his brother could deal with any urgent matters that arise in the UK. Your BIL may feel more comfortable sharing the role with your husband but if he doesn't want to get involved then an alternative to the OPG appointing someone could be for the family to appoint a solicitor, although either way it would mean that fees would need to be paid for by your FIL.

 

[jugglingmum]

There have been people on TP who have run LPA from overseas.

@jenniferpa springs to mind as one, although I don't know how often she comes on TP now. She operated bank accounts for her mum on line from US and I think arranged shopping etc.

My OH and his sister are both LPA for his mum, but she doesn't have dementia (yet ?) but they have registered it. OH's sister is in the US and I have suggested she should use her registered LPA to link to bank account and utilities. SIL set all this up on a visit to UK and it took a couple of visits to get it done (SIL comes over every 6 months or so). OH is reluctant to get involved in things due to complex family issues from his childhood.

I think your bigger problem is setting it up, you have three issues, does your FIL still have capacity? I'm not sure from your other posts if he does, in terms of getting someone to sign it, although you only need capacity in the moment and getting a friend or neighbour who has known him for 2 years is the best way to do this rather than a Dr or solicitor, 2nd if he does have capacity will he willingly sign it, it would seem if BIL is not prepared to initiate this then to arrange this remotely is going to be very difficult and 3rdly the form needs to be signed in the correct order by donee and donor so form will need to be sent to US and back to get this done.

I am not sure how easy it is to set up remotely with banks, they will need a certified copy of OH's passport provided as a minimum, together with LPA copy (certified one, posting an original is considered risky as once lost not easy to deal with).

If FIL loses capacity, OH could then apply to be a deputy, it doesn't need to be a stranger, and act on behalf of Cop. Yes this is costly but in the grand scheme of things only a month's care home fees if FIL is self funding.

I know there are issues with BIL not seeming to think that FIL needs support, and host mode may be coming into play with one or other of you.

 

[Sirena]

Why do you think BIL may not agree to being an attorney? It could be presented to him just as 'being prepared'. My mother did her LPA about ten years ago, pre-dementia, and I only started using it 3 years ago. And the reason she did it ahead of time was because *her* parents hadn't - so she encountered difficulties when accessing their funds when it became necessary.

But from what you have said, I suspect the other issue will be getting FIL to agree to do it.

 

[Spamar]

Same happened with fil. No LPA and I think he died before it was ready. When my father got ill, I persuaded my cousins to get it, which he eventually did. Cousin was then converted and paractically all the family did theirs! Mine is still around somewhere (!), ready and waiting.
My personal opinion is that anyone who doesn’t do them well in advance is silly ( I’m being polite!).

 

[Sirena]

Same happened with fil. No LPA and I think he died before it was ready. When my father got ill, I persuaded my cousins to get it, which he eventually did. Cousin was then converted and paractically all the family did theirs! Mine is still around somewhere (!), ready and waiting.
My personal opinion is that anyone who doesn’t do them well in advance is silly ( I’m being polite!).

Yep - my grandfather finally did an LPA and it arrived in the post the day after he died!

 

[charlie10]

thank you so much everyone for your considered replies.....it helps to clear my thinking just to put it down on Paper (you know what I mean! ) My husband has explained to BiL the implications of not getting the LPA....as in FiL will either be administered by a stranger, or he will have to spend a lot of his dad's money and his own time sorting out Deputyship.....to me it seems a no-brainer, why wouldn't you do a fairly cheap LPA which is private in the family (and may never need to be used) rather than the hassle of CoP .....but he is now talking about the risk of being sued by his dad for making decisions he doesn't agree with and is showing signs of possibly just not doing it. Maybe he's been listening to urban myths....we've tried to tell him how unlikely that is, but maybe he just doesn't want to do it. Neither does he want to persuade his dad, as he respects his right to be independent and won't see that he also has the right to be looked after and supported if he can't do it for himself. We go round in circles and really it comes down to it will happen the way he chooses....if we push too hard and he stops talking to us we're out of touch with FiL

I do appreciate your help and will reread the replies to see if they prompt an lightbulb moment

 

[love.dad.but..]

Just a thought...I think you mentioned your father visited FIL in hospital...does your father have poa arranged and if so...is he on good enough terms to bring up in conversation the importance of having it...a bit of an in road to altering or setting the seed into FILs mind rather than BIL.?

 

[charlie10]

Hi @love.dad.but.. .....yes I can see we all have sneaky minds at this stage! Since I have been enlightened as to the importance of LPA I have opened negotiations with my dad and brother about doing one for him.....he more or less agrees so am now nagging the pair of them to get together and do it. I have, in the past, got my dad to casually chat about such things as benefits etc, peer to peer, but that's usually as far as it gets, doesn't trigger any action! I am holding dad in reserve for an LPA chat ("I'm getting it done too"), but if BiL isn't proactive as well I think it will all fizzle out. I'm a dreadful control freak and maybe I just need to step back and let it sort itself out

 

[Amy in the US]

Hi, Charlie. Hope you and your OH are hanging in there.

If your BIL absolutely refuses to take on PoA for FIL, he refuses. I’m sure he is tired and stressed, given the fall and surgery and hospital stay, in addition to whatever level of denial he has about his and your OH’s father’s ability and level of cognition. I’m sure none of that is helping him to make a considered decision.

My best advice is for you to let go of this as much as possible, and I say that fully aware of how easy it is for me to type, and how difficult it is for you to do, and let your OH and his brother figure this out. If it were possible for your OH to make a trip, that might be helpful (maybe set up an alert for any airfare deals and book a trip if it becomes remotely affordable?), but if it isn’t possible, that’s just the way it is.

That is not terribly helpful and I am sorry.

I’m not sure if you said on your other thread, but how is FIL doing?

 

[jenniferpa]

I was paged? Well at the time I was doing this it was an EPA. But while I didn't have to be in the UK when the EPA was created, I did have to be there to get the banking set up (and even then the bank lost the signature card that I signed, so I had to do it all over again, sigh). But this was more than 10 years ago - it might be easier now. Now shopping - thank god for online shopping. I did all my mothers shopping online and had it delivered - it was a true life saver.

OK - thinking it through, if you can get an LPA signed and witnessed by your FIL you probably should. Although to do that probably your BIL would have to shepherd the procedure and it rather sounds like he's not willing, even if he himself is not the attorney. I say this because I'm not seeing a downside. As you say - if you don't get one, and one is eventually needed (and your FIL has lost capacity) - you're looking at deputyship which is more expensive. Maybe it will never be needed but it doesn't cost anything to set up the LPA (registering costs but less than applying to be a deputy).

The truth is, though, if your BIL won't cooperate - I think you might drive yourself crazy trying to persuade him. As you say - I think he's been sucked in by some kind of bizarre urban myth - but if he won't do it, he won't do it.

 

[charlie10]

Jennifer and Amy - thank you for your replies.....everything really confirms what I already know, that we really should take a breather and hope for the best....the thought that something might trigger a sudden loss of capacity is spurring us on....we can see it but he won't admit that might happen, or go against his dad's wishes. Trying to sit on my hands now and hope that he suddenly sees it

Amy thank you for asking....he had his hip pinned and my dad reported seeing him soon after the op and said he is in good spirits they're going to try him walking today (tomorrow? can't work out time zones!)....don't envy the physios that job! He's expecting to be in for a week or so (that's what he told dad....need to double check with BiL to see if that's right.) He's pretty tough....has always been a creaking gate ever since I've known him