Hi my Mum has dementia and her short term memory is appalling. I was worried that she was not in control of her money so I registered her, previously completed LPA so I now have joint responsibility with my sister and brother for her financial affairs. When I went to the bank I was shocked to discover that she has been withdrawing over £1000 per month in cash from her bank account. As all her bills are paid by direct debit she only has to pay for her weekly hairdressers appointment and food. She does over buy and has cupboards full of stuff she forgets she has, but this does not account for the amounts she is withdrawing. She does not know what she does with the money, but was shocked enough to give us her bank cards. However since then she: constantly complains about having to come 'cap in hand', for money and secretes money around the house, that we can't find, then complains she has no money. When I visit, daily, her only topic of conversation is money - lack of it or lack of control of it and she phones me up to 10 times a day on the same subject. I try to distract her but she is soon back on topic. I was wondering about getting her one of the cards that you can load with money so that she regains some control. Does anyone have any advice please?
Money issues
- Thread starter Unasmum
- Start date
This is a phase which will pass but in the meantime you have to find a way of limiting her access to large amounts of money. Does she go to a daycentre? That would give her company and keep her busy. She needs more activity to keep her mind off money.
The card you describe sounds like an idea.
The card you describe sounds like an idea.
These preloaded cards might seem like a good solution but with serious memory issues in the mix she'll forget that she's gone shopping and do it again, at one point running out of money on her prepaid card which will be embarassing for her and probably provoke more anxiety laden phone calls to you.
Instead you could try to organise online shopping and setting up an account with her hairdresser's so that they bill you instead once a month. They could then tell her that she doesn't need to pay as it's taken care of, hopefully alleviating some of her anxiety.
I know it's important to try and preserve autonomy, but once someone has no clue about finances anymore, I think its in their best interests to preserve their money, and at the same time, lessen their anxiety about it.
Instead you could try to organise online shopping and setting up an account with her hairdresser's so that they bill you instead once a month. They could then tell her that she doesn't need to pay as it's taken care of, hopefully alleviating some of her anxiety.
I know it's important to try and preserve autonomy, but once someone has no clue about finances anymore, I think its in their best interests to preserve their money, and at the same time, lessen their anxiety about it.
Bank notes are small and flat, which makes them easy to hide. You may be looking for a pile of banknotes when they may have been scattered around as individual notes, or rolled into a tube. Suggestions:
- in old handbags, purses or glasses cases in drawers
- in carrier bags and suitcases
- in the pockets of jackets, coats, trousers, skirts, dressing gowns
- inside shoes, boots and shoe boxes
- in drawers under paper drawer liners
- in the linen cupboard between layers of sheets and towels
- in the freezer, in biscuit tins, inside the body of a torch
- hidden in bags of rice, pasta, cereal or dog biscuit
- behind the bath panel, or the kitchen unit kick boards
- in envelopes taped behind radiators or furniture, or the underside of drawers
- under rugs, layered between carpet and underlay or floorboards
- under mattresses, inside pillows and cushions
- inside video cases, inside books or photo albums
- in the garden shed inside paint tins or other decoy packaging
And the list goes on....It's often a complete mystery how a cognitively impaired person can be so ingenious at hiding their valuables. Such a shame.
I really hope you find some of this money. Don't return any control of debit cards to your mum. It won't make her happy or feel more in control. She was hiding her money in cash when she did have more access to her account, rather than leaving it safely in the bank. It's a symptom of trying to retain control of her life when she feels scared and disempowered by her illness. You must not be tempted to feed the habit, it is not a kindness. She will complain whatever you do, but it's not you that's causing her anxiety, it's her poor damaged brain.
- in old handbags, purses or glasses cases in drawers
- in carrier bags and suitcases
- in the pockets of jackets, coats, trousers, skirts, dressing gowns
- inside shoes, boots and shoe boxes
- in drawers under paper drawer liners
- in the linen cupboard between layers of sheets and towels
- in the freezer, in biscuit tins, inside the body of a torch
- hidden in bags of rice, pasta, cereal or dog biscuit
- behind the bath panel, or the kitchen unit kick boards
- in envelopes taped behind radiators or furniture, or the underside of drawers
- under rugs, layered between carpet and underlay or floorboards
- under mattresses, inside pillows and cushions
- inside video cases, inside books or photo albums
- in the garden shed inside paint tins or other decoy packaging
And the list goes on....It's often a complete mystery how a cognitively impaired person can be so ingenious at hiding their valuables. Such a shame.
I really hope you find some of this money. Don't return any control of debit cards to your mum. It won't make her happy or feel more in control. She was hiding her money in cash when she did have more access to her account, rather than leaving it safely in the bank. It's a symptom of trying to retain control of her life when she feels scared and disempowered by her illness. You must not be tempted to feed the habit, it is not a kindness. She will complain whatever you do, but it's not you that's causing her anxiety, it's her poor damaged brain.
My OH appears to have willingly handed over all money issues to me whether I wanted to or not. He still has a credit card, just in case he needs it. I work 3 days a week so leave him enough money to buy a paper, that's all. On the occasions when I have left him a five pound note he managed to spend it all on biscuits and sweets, so I try to have just a pound available. Last week he went to chemist to buy some Sudacrem but it was only £3 so he bought more medicines (which we don't take) because he thought it looked better than spending just £3. I don't think he needed the Sudacrem either! In the past he always carried the money when we went out, now he expects me to go to the bar or pay for a meal and doesn't feel any concern as he would have in the past. This is one of several changes in his dementia over the last year. I am hoping to complete the POA shortly so that myself and our sons can officially take the reigns of his finances.
@Unasmum I work in a charity book shop and we once had £300.00 flutter out of a book that was part of a donation. As it wasn't gift aided we couldn't return the money as we had know idea who ahd brought it in. My mum also hides money (though not as much as your mum). Her trainers are a favourite place. If you can I'd try and have a look in some likely and unlikely places and try and get the money back into her account. Maybe you could go to the bank with her and set up a 'spending' account that has a smallish amount in it, regularly topped up that your mum can access and a main account she can't touch. My mum's bank has been very good with her, they know her and me well and last time I was there said they looked out for her, so I hope they'd contact my brother and I with any concerns. As it is they've called us in to chat about making mum's money work better. I'll do all the talking and mum will nod like she knows what's going on. It does make her feel she is in control even if she isn't.
I had almost the exact same problem with my money obsessed dad. He visited the bank daily, sometimes twice, three times a day to withdraw money and before I took control of his finances with the LPA, he also would withdraw £500-£1000 at a time. It really worried me, firstly that he was a vulnerable adult walking around with such large amounts of money and secondly where was it all going as most of it seemed to disappear and he couldn’t remember where it was or how he had spent it? I couldn’t stop dad visiting the bank daily, but I agreed with the bank, that he could only withdraw a maximum of £100 in a week, so depending on how often he visited them, sometimes they would only give him £10 as 2 x £5 notes. He had no idea of the value of money he just liked to see his wallet full, so having £5 notes worked ok. Dad didn’t have a credit or debit card so no problem there.
Regarding the ‘lost’ money, we did find some, usually hidden, under chairs, behind cabinets/drawers, under rugs/carpets. Every time I visited dad, I would have to play hunt the wallet, tv remote, money etc. I used to find all sorts of things hidden. Dad was obsessed with buying chocolate, umbrellas, when we emptied and sold his house, my last count of umbrellas was 35 and don’t get me started on disposable razors, we found hundreds. I do know he lost a large amount of money which he took out with him and didn’t come back with, we never found out where and he also liked to burn it, yes you read that right.
I also have to say, his obsession with money never dulled, this went on for years. Even now that he is in a care home, when he first went in he had to have his wallet with money in it and he kept trying to escape so he could go to the bank. We tried toy money which worked to some extent and I photocopied some notes of see if that would work, unfortunately the Care home kept washing his wallet with his clothes so that didn’t last. He’s been in care now 10 months, he no longer has his wallet, but he still taps his pockets looking for it when he thinks he has to pay for his lunch etc and he wants to go the bank. We just tell him it’s already paid for or my treat.
Money obsession does seem to be a common issue. Good luck dealing with it.
Elle x
Regarding the ‘lost’ money, we did find some, usually hidden, under chairs, behind cabinets/drawers, under rugs/carpets. Every time I visited dad, I would have to play hunt the wallet, tv remote, money etc. I used to find all sorts of things hidden. Dad was obsessed with buying chocolate, umbrellas, when we emptied and sold his house, my last count of umbrellas was 35 and don’t get me started on disposable razors, we found hundreds. I do know he lost a large amount of money which he took out with him and didn’t come back with, we never found out where and he also liked to burn it, yes you read that right.
I also have to say, his obsession with money never dulled, this went on for years. Even now that he is in a care home, when he first went in he had to have his wallet with money in it and he kept trying to escape so he could go to the bank. We tried toy money which worked to some extent and I photocopied some notes of see if that would work, unfortunately the Care home kept washing his wallet with his clothes so that didn’t last. He’s been in care now 10 months, he no longer has his wallet, but he still taps his pockets looking for it when he thinks he has to pay for his lunch etc and he wants to go the bank. We just tell him it’s already paid for or my treat.
Money obsession does seem to be a common issue. Good luck dealing with it.
Elle x
We went through this obsession too. Before we realised how bad our PWD had become we too were worried about how much money she was spending per week but she was very good at hostessing when we visited and she would say it was none of our business what she spent her money on and was insistent that she went shopping with it.
We installed a camera with sound on her front door and were horrified to see a procession of neighbours and druggies calling at all hours saying she owed them money. One of the favourite tricks was asking to "borrow" cat food as they had no money then a few hours later coming back to sell her the tin of catfood for a tenner.
We now have LPA and she has accepted that a lot of money was stolen from her so it's not safe for her to have more than a tenner in her purse.
It was a long hard battle as she would constantly take her purse out to count how much she had.
We removed her bank card and replaced it with an old phone card with a printed sticker with the name of her bank and debit card stuck on the front. Amazingly she does think this is her card and is quite happy with it. She is not able to use a cash machine so is quite happy for us to help her and has no idea when she hands her card over that a different one goes into the machine
We installed a camera with sound on her front door and were horrified to see a procession of neighbours and druggies calling at all hours saying she owed them money. One of the favourite tricks was asking to "borrow" cat food as they had no money then a few hours later coming back to sell her the tin of catfood for a tenner.
We now have LPA and she has accepted that a lot of money was stolen from her so it's not safe for her to have more than a tenner in her purse.
It was a long hard battle as she would constantly take her purse out to count how much she had.
We removed her bank card and replaced it with an old phone card with a printed sticker with the name of her bank and debit card stuck on the front. Amazingly she does think this is her card and is quite happy with it. She is not able to use a cash machine so is quite happy for us to help her and has no idea when she hands her card over that a different one goes into the machine
Hi, I have found thread this very interesting reading ,
No official diagnosis yet other than MCI 18moths ago, now told some form of dementia with Parkinsonism.
Since OH returned home from hospital, is now immobile ( wheelchair) etc he has become obsessed with cash!!!!
Until Sept this year, his routine was as to collect his state pension weekly. Now he still wants it collected each week and is hoarding it in his wallet! ( only 8 weeks to date,,but what when it is 8 months worth ) .
He has no out goings from that cash! He just wants it and counts it!
I thought at first it was his only bit of his ‘old’ self, but I am now wondering??
Anyone else the same experience!
No official diagnosis yet other than MCI 18moths ago, now told some form of dementia with Parkinsonism.
Since OH returned home from hospital, is now immobile ( wheelchair) etc he has become obsessed with cash!!!!
Until Sept this year, his routine was as to collect his state pension weekly. Now he still wants it collected each week and is hoarding it in his wallet! ( only 8 weeks to date,,but what when it is 8 months worth ) .
He has no out goings from that cash! He just wants it and counts it!
I thought at first it was his only bit of his ‘old’ self, but I am now wondering??
Anyone else the same experience!
My mum pre-dementia was very savvy about her money - she had ISAs, shares and bonds, knew about gilts, paid everything by DD and dint use cash much at all. I was therefore amazed when I discovered that when she was taken into hospital with a TIA that she had £800 in her pockets and handbag! I also found hundreds of pounds in her knicker drawer and pieces of jewellery hidden around the house.
Its definitely a dementia "thing" and seems to be related to a fear of losing control.
Its definitely a dementia "thing" and seems to be related to a fear of losing control.
So are you the one collecting it for him? If so, don't. Be forgetful. Is there a way you can change the payment to bank transfer rather than cash in person? If he's collecting it himself, then you could be sneaky with the notes if you can access his wallet. Substitute fivers for higher value notes, and pay your gleanings into a savings account to which you have online access. Ask him for cash from his wallet when you go shopping, to reduce the surplus. If you think he would notice any subterfuge then how about a distraction? Give him bags of mixed coins to count.
I agree with others who have said you give her a preloaded card she will just withdraw money and hide it and forget it's there. So it won't stop the anxiety. Katrine has given a great list of places to look for the money she's already hidden, but another possibility is that she has thrown or given it away. My mother hid things but also had a phase of taking clothing to the recycling bank, and anything hidden in pockets disappeared along with it. Unfortunately at this stage you have to protect her from herself.
A friend recently clearing out an old relatives house found a wardrobe full of carrier bags filled with screwed up dirty tissues. She picked up the four carriers and put them in the skip they had hired just before it was taken away.
The next day she found another 2 carriers of dirty tissues and something made her look. In nearly every screwed up tissue was either £5 or £10!!
My aunt would hide money between clothes in her drawers, in shoe boxes, old tea caddies in fact everywhere. This happened when her mobility became very restricted and she was afraid of having to rely on others to get her money.
The next day she found another 2 carriers of dirty tissues and something made her look. In nearly every screwed up tissue was either £5 or £10!!
My aunt would hide money between clothes in her drawers, in shoe boxes, old tea caddies in fact everywhere. This happened when her mobility became very restricted and she was afraid of having to rely on others to get her money.
Thank you for all your input. It is encouraging to know I am not alone. I have not given her a prepaid card and her advancing osteoarthritis in her spine has diminished her mobility, so she is grateful that I handle her money. Unfortunately her obsession is not diminished. Every Friday she asks for between £200 and £500 in case she needs it.
Would giving her 'fake' money help to reduce her anxiety? There's plenty like this on places like ebay & amazon: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/gag-gift...m=202615794839&_trksid=p2047675.c100008.m2219
You missed in the pages of books, newspapers and magazines! Years ago, some relatives of mine found a couple of thousand pounds hidden in old newspapers and books in the home of an elderly relative that had moved to a nursing home! She had been constantly worrying because she "had no money", and they thought she was losing it, as she had a habit of wandering around the town. Nope! It was all there, hidden! It was just chance it was found as they were clearing her home. As someone picked up a pile of old newspapers to throw out, a couple of notes fluttered to the floor!
Besides other places, FiL would hide money inside, or in between or behind books on shelves. And a colleague found over £2000 hidden inside or between newspapers and magazines, of which there were piles in the flat of an old uncle after he died.
As far as possible it's advisable to check absolutely everything that could possibly serve as a 'container' before binning it. Books, cornflakes packets, everything.
That doesn't just apply to money, either. It was pure chance, since they happened to visit that day, that my sister and BiL found a valuable diamond ring wrapped in something extremely unsavoury and dumped in the waste paper bin of an aunt's care home room. She had been complaining that someone must have stolen it.
It was also pure chance, since my husband was visiting that day, that he found a mass of family tree research, accumulated by MiL and her brother, all torn up and bagged up by FiL, ready for the dustbin. Among other things were letters from the 1800s and old wills. We spent hours piecing it all together. FiL was only in the early stages then, but was getting rid of 'rubbish' as he saw it.
As far as possible it's advisable to check absolutely everything that could possibly serve as a 'container' before binning it. Books, cornflakes packets, everything.
That doesn't just apply to money, either. It was pure chance, since they happened to visit that day, that my sister and BiL found a valuable diamond ring wrapped in something extremely unsavoury and dumped in the waste paper bin of an aunt's care home room. She had been complaining that someone must have stolen it.
It was also pure chance, since my husband was visiting that day, that he found a mass of family tree research, accumulated by MiL and her brother, all torn up and bagged up by FiL, ready for the dustbin. Among other things were letters from the 1800s and old wills. We spent hours piecing it all together. FiL was only in the early stages then, but was getting rid of 'rubbish' as he saw it.
