Wills, POA, concerns about intentions.

[jojo2018]

Hello,

I wonder if anyone has experience / knowledge of this, or can offer advice?

My MIL has dementia and is declining rapidly. After her husband passed she was reunited with her estranged family, and said she'd like to move back home. The family have been brilliant - they found a home, organised everything, and are keenly awaiting her arrival.

So all seemed well. After years of supporting her alone, we felt a huge flood of relief that others would also care for and visit her, and while we can see her less if we move her away, there are many more people to see her overall.

But, then other people have started dropping hints about their suspicions of the family's intentions. A distant cousin even called my OH to tell him to be careful.

My strong gut feeling is that they are lovely people who are just happy to be reunited with their long-lost sister / aunty. My OH has POA and they know that. But - given these warnings - there's an annoying niggle.

I don't want to worry my OH as he is so stressed at the moment, and has been much happier since they got involved. For him it's also having a new family. So instead I thought someone on here could offer some advice or guidance.

Many thanks for reading,
J x

 

[marionq]

If she is in a care home and he has POA to watch over her finances online then there isn’t much they could do that would benefit them. She can’t change her Will if she lacks capacity.

 

[jojo2018]

Thank you for replying! That was my thinking too (an she's been formally diagnosed since about 8 months ago) - suggesting their intentions are as good as we'd believed and hoped! The warnings threw me a little!

If she is in a care home and he has POA to watch over her finances online then there isn’t much they could do that would benefit them. She can’t change her Will if she lacks capacity.

 

[love.dad.but..]

From the scenario you describe it sounds as though your OH has all things in place to safeguard her if their intentions aren't what they seem. The distant cousin may be too distanced to have a good appraisal of the current situation and MILs decline. You can encourage your OH still to be involved so he can be on the ball in monitoring the situation ready to step in and act if he has any cause for concern in the future.

 

[jojo2018]

From the scenario you describe it sounds as though your OH has all things in place to safeguard her if their intentions aren't what they seem. The distant cousin may be too distanced to have a good appraisal of the current situation and MILs decline. You can encourage your OH still to be involved so he can be on the ball in monitoring the situation ready to step in and act if he has any cause for concern in the future.

Thanks, that's good advice. Really appreciate it

 

[Bod]

Hello,

I wonder if anyone has experience / knowledge of this, or can offer advice?

My MIL has dementia and is declining rapidly. After her husband passed she was reunited with her estranged family, and said she'd like to move back home. The family have been brilliant - they found a home, organised everything, and are keenly awaiting her arrival.

So all seemed well. After years of supporting her alone, we felt a huge flood of relief that others would also care for and visit her, and while we can see her less if we move her away, there are many more people to see her overall.

But, then other people have started dropping hints about their suspicions of the family's intentions. A distant cousin even called my OH to tell him to be careful.

My strong gut feeling is that they are lovely people who are just happy to be reunited with their long-lost sister / aunty. My OH has POA and they know that. But - given these warnings - there's an annoying niggle.

I don't want to worry my OH as he is so stressed at the moment, and has been much happier since they got involved. For him it's also having a new family. So instead I thought someone on here could offer some advice or guidance.

Many thanks for reading,
J x

What is the new home like?
Will it be suitable, both now and in the future as things change?
Has anyone from the new home actually assessed her, to ensure they can meet her current and likely future needs?
Is there a current will? Has she declined too far to make another will?
OH has POA for both finance and welfare?
What was the cause of the family rift, money? Or was father the family "black sheep"?

All questions that you need to find the answers to, without involving any other family members. Or even with their knowledge.


Bod

 

[jojo2018]

What is the new home like?
Will it be suitable, both now and in the future as things change?
Has anyone from the new home actually assessed her, to ensure they can meet her current and likely future needs?
Is there a current will? Has she declined too far to make another will?
OH has POA for both finance and welfare?
What was the cause of the family rift, money? Or was father the family "black sheep"?

All questions that you need to find the answers to, without involving any other family members. Or even with their knowledge.


Bod

Thanks for replying. We have tried to find out the cause of the rift because it is so baffling, but everyone says they don't remember or that my MIL left home and things drifted apart. It makes zero sense to us, especially as they all seem so lovely and so very keen to have her back.

The home has seen all MILs medical records and liaised with her Drs but because of the distance none of us have visited. It sounds lovely and the relatives say it's by far the best place so we are trusting their judgement there.

I understand that she has a will and it leaves the family home to my OH as the only child, though at some point we will need to sell it to help finance her care. He has POA for both medical and financial decisions. My MIL has good days and bad days so it's hard to know exactly what stage she's at with the dementia - to us she seems to be declining fast but others may not see her like that especially when she is in hospitality mode or early in the day.

I hope so much that everything is as it seems and she has the unconditional love and support she so badly needs from her wider family.

Thanks for asking the questions I hope that doesn't raise any red flags!

 

[Bod]

Two red flags.
1. You have not seen the new home.
2. The new home has not seen her.
Both these are absolutely vital to the success of any move.
Extra question, who's going to be paying for this new home, and can they afford the cost?

Bod

 

[Fullticket]

If your OH has POA for finances then it is down to him to ensure that her money is spent wisely and not for the benefit of any third parties. When she is gone, then finances may be scrutinised and questions asked. As such, I would have thought it was imperative that the arrangements with the care home are discussed and I doubt that a contract could be signed without it. You say you realise that her home may have to be sold to finance her care but how much is this home costing? How long will her finances last without the sale of the house? Do family realise that the sale of the house is down to your OH, not them? Presumably her pension and any benefits are being paid into an account over which your OH has control/oversight.
Best intentions aside, and I am not pointing any fingers as their intentions are probably of the best kind, but this needs some in depth investigation and discussion to protect your OH, her best interests and also to add some protection to the family.

 

[jojo2018]

Two red flags.
1. You have not seen the new home.
2. The new home has not seen her.
Both these are absolutely vital to the success of any move.
Extra question, who's going to be paying for this new home, and can they afford the cost?

Bod

Thanks for taking the time to reply - all other homes we spoke to require a face-to-face assessment, but this one didn't as long as they had all medical details and a letter from her GP. We've really gone from the relatives very strong recommendations and are hoping it will work out - we will be there in the first days / weeks to see how she settles in, and if it doesn't work out we will be back to the drawing board! If it wasn't for the distance we would have done it differently, and I agree this is a bit of a risk.
My OH is managing payments (self-funded), using her pension and topping up with her savings. Then at some point we will sell the house, which has more than enough to continue to fun her care.

 

[jojo2018]

If your OH has POA for finances then it is down to him to ensure that her money is spent wisely and not for the benefit of any third parties. When she is gone, then finances may be scrutinised and questions asked. As such, I would have thought it was imperative that the arrangements with the care home are discussed and I doubt that a contract could be signed without it. You say you realise that her home may have to be sold to finance her care but how much is this home costing? How long will her finances last without the sale of the house? Do family realise that the sale of the house is down to your OH, not them? Presumably her pension and any benefits are being paid into an account over which your OH has control/oversight.
Best intentions aside, and I am not pointing any fingers as their intentions are probably of the best kind, but this needs some in depth investigation and discussion to protect your OH, her best interests and also to add some protection to the family.

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. My OH is managing payments (self-funded), using her pension and topping up with her savings. I think that will be fine for at least 1-2 years, then whenever needed we have the house, in which there is more than enough to support her. We may not even reach that point sadly, as she is very frail with multiple cancers and a whole host of illnesses as well as dementia - we are desperate to get her home mainly to give her some happiness in her last chapter. I wonder whether we need to speak to a legal professional to make sure we are doing all the right things, as you mention finances being scrutinised and I don't actually know what we are meant to do except only use the money for things that are for her benefit.

 

[Bod]

Thanks for taking the time to reply - all other homes we spoke to require a face-to-face assessment, but this one didn't as long as they had all medical details and a letter from her GP. We've really gone from the relatives very strong recommendations and are hoping it will work out - we will be there in the first days / weeks to see how she settles in, and if it doesn't work out we will be back to the drawing board! If it wasn't for the distance we would have done it differently, and I agree this is a bit of a risk.
My OH is managing payments (self-funded), using her pension and topping up with her savings. Then at some point we will sell the house, which has more than enough to continue to fun her care.

This worries me even more.
No Care Home I've ever come across, would take a person unseen, on a permanent basis. Most won't even just for respite.
The fact you say "all other homes...........face to face" and this one doesn't should be enough to put a halt to the entire idea.
OH is entitled to expenses as POA to go and see for himself this new home, and be satisfied that the move is in MiL's best interests. It's his responsibility as POA.
Distance does not come into it.
Many members here have been faced with moving their PWD because the "Care Home" couldn't/wouldn't cope as the dementia got worse.
There is a great difference between an Old Folks hotel, and Dementia friendly Care Home that can cope with all levels.

Bod

 

[Sirena]

I can understand someone being wary of a sudden interest by family members at this late stage, but if your husband has POA and is controlling the money I can't see what they would have to gain.

If your MIL is going to be self funding for the rest of her life (and it sounds as if she will) there will be no financial scrutiny (unless a query is raised by, say, a concerned family member). All the POA is required to do is spend her money in her best interests.

BUT in order to ascertain her best interests he needs to visit the proposed care home, and ensure she has a proper assessment. If there is considerable distance involved, a care home will sometimes accept a detailed written assessment from the current professional carers; or if it's a chain of care homes they will send a staff member from a nearby branch. A letter from the GP presumably gives the diagnosis and medical details but it will not give details of her daily personal care needs or behaviours. If this goes pearshaped it will be your husband's responsibility because he's POA, so he needs to protect both himself and your MIL by making sure things are done properly.

 

[jojo2018]

I can understand someone being wary of a sudden interest by family members at this late stage, but if your husband has POA and is controlling the money I can't see what they would have to gain.

If your MIL is going to be self funding for the rest of her life (and it sounds as if she will) there will be no financial scrutiny (unless a query is raised by, say, a concerned family member). All the POA is required to do is spend her money in her best interests.

BUT in order to ascertain her best interests he needs to visit the proposed care home, and ensure she has a proper assessment. If there is considerable distance involved, a care home will sometimes accept a detailed written assessment from the current professional carers; or if it's a chain of care homes they will send a staff member from a nearby branch. A letter from the GP presumably gives the diagnosis and medical details but it will not give details of her daily personal care needs or behaviours. If this goes pearshaped it will be your husband's responsibility because he's POA, so he needs to protect both himself and your MIL by making sure things are done properly.

Thank you that's really helpful. We are going together to see the home and if there is anything unsuitable we will still be able to return to her current home. I asked if they could do an assessment and they said they would, but had wanted an assessment to be sent from the Drs here (which the Drs here said they don't so as we are self funding) so it seems a bit complex, but based on feedback here we will certainly push for a proper assessment (something in writing with medical professionals present I assume). We had a bad day today, and MIL got really upset at not remembering everything (she's normally unaware).Thanks for your helpful advice x

 

[Sirena]

The assessment is usually done by the manager of the care home who is best placed to know if they can meet the person's needs. S/he will need a full medical history, which presumably can be provided. It sounds as if your MIL has complex medical needs so I guess she will need a dementia nursing home which can deal with her medical care as well as her personal/social care. While it's tempting to think that if it doesn't work out you can just take her back home, if they cannot meet her needs there could be safeguarding issues, so it's great you are going to visit the home and ensure they carry out an assessment.

 

[Susan11]

The assessment is usually done by the manager of the care home who is best placed to know if they can meet the person's needs. S/he will need a full medical history, which presumably can be provided. It sounds as if your MIL has complex medical needs so I guess she will need a dementia nursing home which can deal with her medical care as well as her personal/social care. While it's tempting to think that if it doesn't work out you can just take her back home, if they cannot meet her needs there could be safeguarding issues, so it's great you are going to visit the home and ensure they carry out an assessment.

When I wanted to move my Mum from the North to London the London care home arranged for a local person to visit my Mum and make an independent assessment as to whether they could meet my Mum's needs. It was done within a week with no problems, I woukd think it's important to see the new home yourself so you can make up your own mind as to whether it would suit your Mil. Good luck

 

[jojo2018]

The assessment is usually done by the manager of the care home who is best placed to know if they can meet the person's needs. S/he will need a full medical history, which presumably can be provided. It sounds as if your MIL has complex medical needs so I guess she will need a dementia nursing home which can deal with her medical care as well as her personal/social care. While it's tempting to think that if it doesn't work out you can just take her back home, if they cannot meet her needs there could be safeguarding issues, so it's great you are going to visit the home and ensure they carry out an assessment.

Thanks for your advice it is much appreciated.