Hi canary:
I thought when we got married we had a friend for life. But I guess they are friends. I do feel for him, it must just be so confusing for him, it's just so stressful on us caregivers.
How do you get a person to understand when they are not capable of understanding.
- Thread starter dancer12
- Start date
I thought when we got married we had a friend for life. But I guess they are friends. I do feel for him, it must just be so confusing for him, it's just so stressful on us caregivers.
Haha,it's made me an extrovert,I love chatting to people now,every time the postlady has to deliver a parcel that's another nice chat,and mum has 4 care visits a day with 2 people at each call,I make the most of the company then,it's like therapy for freeHi witts1973:
I thought women were the chatty ones.
You are absolutely right, communication is more than just talking, a lot of it is body language and other things. And that is were my problem lies, my voice says one thing and my body language tells him otherwise, no question about it he picks up on it. I just wish I knew how to get them to agree so I wouldn't be sending him mixed signals.
I'm finding this lack of reasoning/understanding the most difficult on this roller coaster ride of dementia. My OH is in a CH where the staff all say that he is so nice, so polite, no trouble, yet when I'm there I'm the butt of all his frustration. He just isn't able to comprehend why he's in the CH. He goes over and over the same things, "why can't I come home, you could just take me home and leave me there, I'll be alright, I don't need any help, " Not being able to explain that I've always tried my hardest to keep him at home just doesn't work. He accuses me of just wanting rid of him even though I spend every other afternoon with him. I miss him even though he's given me a hard time for years. I can't enjoy going anywhere really, because I just keep thinking of where he is. I know he's safe and well looked after but not being able to explain and for him to understand is the hardest thing. I realise that there isn't an answer to this. This is dementia. To just rise above it is so hard plus the fact that I can't share with him how much I hate the situation but it's the best option. When I'm with him I try not to talk about home or any of the problems I might be having with anything. When he starts going on about coming home i try to distract him by talking about something else but like most of you have already said, conversation isn't exactly easy. Quite often, we just sit and watch TV.
Is it just me or does anyone else find this a confusing question "How do you get a person to understand when they are not capable of understanding."?
How can someone not capable of understanding be made to understand something they're not capable of understanding...well by definition they can't so there is no answer.
Asking someone to do something they're not capable of doing just doesn't make sense, why if I flap my arms can't I fly, why can't someone in a wheelchair just get up and put one foot in front of the other, why can't people with Parkinson's just stop shaking their hands...because they can't.
I can't fly because I can't, people who are in a wheelchair can't walk and people with Parkinson's have no control over some of their muscles, people with AZ have no control over their certain aspects of their brains so asking them to do something (even you admit they can't do) is just as impossible as me flapping my arms and flying like a bird just because birds can.
AZ is an brain condition that over time can rob people of some or all of their abilities, walking, talking, knowing who people are, bowel control, the ability to put food into your own mouth chew it and swallow.
If it were any other physical/medical condition people would accept the limitations it imposes on a person that disease and how they will decline, but for some reason people seem to think you can reverse AZ by talking about or explain something and suddenly they get better and understand, they won't or if they do it will only be short term at best.
K
How can someone not capable of understanding be made to understand something they're not capable of understanding...well by definition they can't so there is no answer.
Asking someone to do something they're not capable of doing just doesn't make sense, why if I flap my arms can't I fly, why can't someone in a wheelchair just get up and put one foot in front of the other, why can't people with Parkinson's just stop shaking their hands...because they can't.
I can't fly because I can't, people who are in a wheelchair can't walk and people with Parkinson's have no control over some of their muscles, people with AZ have no control over their certain aspects of their brains so asking them to do something (even you admit they can't do) is just as impossible as me flapping my arms and flying like a bird just because birds can.
AZ is an brain condition that over time can rob people of some or all of their abilities, walking, talking, knowing who people are, bowel control, the ability to put food into your own mouth chew it and swallow.
If it were any other physical/medical condition people would accept the limitations it imposes on a person that disease and how they will decline, but for some reason people seem to think you can reverse AZ by talking about or explain something and suddenly they get better and understand, they won't or if they do it will only be short term at best.
K
Edited - meant to private message, not post on forum.
Site has changed since I posted regularly.
Site has changed since I posted regularly.
Last edited:
Hi witts1973:Haha,it's made me an extrovert,I love chatting to people now,every time the postlady has to deliver a parcel that's another nice chat,and mum has 4 care visits a day with 2 people at each call,I make the most of the company then,it's like therapy for free
Are you waiting for them at the front door with coffee & cake. One time we went to my sons school to talk to his teachers, his math teacher was standing outside his classroom door ushering people in. He had a few parents whose kids were not even in his class. One parent asked "What are you planning to teach my son in biology this year?"
Hi Ernest:
Sounds exactly like my husband only he is still at home with me. He is super sweet to everyone and then there's me. I'm the devil incarnate to him. There is only so much we can do before we have a nervous breakdown. And then who is going to take care of us both. Take care.
Hi Kevini:
If you keep saying can't you won't. I'm just trying to find alternative ways to communicate with him without my getting so upset thus making him upset. I'm also trying to discover through others if I am doing something wrong and find a better way to allow him to understand me better. If people kept saying can't, the airplane, car, wheel, penicillin, etc. wouldn't have been invented.
You are on the right track Dancer, a teaching I came across says We cannot change other people we can only change our own attitude towards them, the one person we can change is ourself.
Kevini is right we can expect the impossible.
I wonder if part of the problem is we have a deep fear of losing our own 'Self' in a similar way.
Another problem is that understanding is fluid, so if one thing is understood we get tricked in thinking all things can be. Yet so much depends on the atmosphere and tiredness levels of both concerned.
We are on very steep learning curves, so do not expect too much understanding yourself, that comes in time.
One simple but deep read is Contented Dementia by Oliver James. It is full of techniques that help both the carer and one cared for, he is a child psychologist. He uses Penelope Garners Methods. Penny advises that anyone diagnosed buys the book, reads it and passes it on to the person who will be caring for them.
It is a remarkable easy informative read.
Warning. Interestingly, he suggests that even with someone close to you that you as a carer developed a professional outlook. He says this wil make many uncomfortable but as the book goes on it will be self explanatory. My initial interest was as a friend and neighbour now it is closer to home.
Buddhists and other groups speak of non attachment this is not being detached from the person but from the situation the carer finds theirselves in. I think this stops (well most of the time!) the pain of taking the disease personally)
My own view is that this approach helps us to Love the other fully, unconditionally without the conflict of our own unmet needs. Love flows back to us more often than not.
Saying this, I had a really bad day yesterday, a critical daughter's rare visit, not being well and coping with dangerous behaviour of my dearest husband who when my back was turned did foolish things. His long term memory triggered actions but the short term failed to provide safe methods. Somehow events were all interconnected.
We are going to fail at some point, we are but human. Ditch the guilt about that.
The thread link is brilliant, Teepa Snow's videos on YouTube are good at showing how.
Kevini is right we can expect the impossible.
I wonder if part of the problem is we have a deep fear of losing our own 'Self' in a similar way.
Another problem is that understanding is fluid, so if one thing is understood we get tricked in thinking all things can be. Yet so much depends on the atmosphere and tiredness levels of both concerned.
We are on very steep learning curves, so do not expect too much understanding yourself, that comes in time.
One simple but deep read is Contented Dementia by Oliver James. It is full of techniques that help both the carer and one cared for, he is a child psychologist. He uses Penelope Garners Methods. Penny advises that anyone diagnosed buys the book, reads it and passes it on to the person who will be caring for them.
It is a remarkable easy informative read.
Warning. Interestingly, he suggests that even with someone close to you that you as a carer developed a professional outlook. He says this wil make many uncomfortable but as the book goes on it will be self explanatory. My initial interest was as a friend and neighbour now it is closer to home.
Buddhists and other groups speak of non attachment this is not being detached from the person but from the situation the carer finds theirselves in. I think this stops (well most of the time!) the pain of taking the disease personally)
My own view is that this approach helps us to Love the other fully, unconditionally without the conflict of our own unmet needs. Love flows back to us more often than not.
Saying this, I had a really bad day yesterday, a critical daughter's rare visit, not being well and coping with dangerous behaviour of my dearest husband who when my back was turned did foolish things. His long term memory triggered actions but the short term failed to provide safe methods. Somehow events were all interconnected.
We are going to fail at some point, we are but human. Ditch the guilt about that.
The thread link is brilliant, Teepa Snow's videos on YouTube are good at showing how.
Look, I know this sounds daft, but my OH understands and pays attention more if I am a little distance away from him. I discovered this at his nursing home. I was sitting with another resident a few yards away but well within sight and hearing of OH and suddenly he was paying attention and answering what I was saying. Get right close up, and I guess he can't see me. Glasses went ages ago, he threw them down the toilet.
Kindred.
Kindred.
There is so much truth about living with a person with dementia in this thread, so helpful to make me realise that I am not a very bad person, just a normal human being trying to care for someone who is mentally ill. Thank you all for your honest words.
@dancer12 - There are some things that people with dementia are incapable of understanding (cant do) and in that respect kevin is right. Understanding that their confabulations arnt true is one of them and often things like understanding that they are not allowed to drive, that they have to take medication, how to work the TV and even that they have dementia come into this category.
I dont know the sort of things that you are trying to communicate with him, but if it is something that they are no longer able to understand (they cant do it) then however you try and communicate this information they wont be able to understand. I still make this mistake at times and try to talk to my OH in the way that I used to do about something that he can no longer understand. I tried recently to explain about fake news, but he has no understanding of this concept - to him, if he reads it somewhere or someone tells him it then it must be right (unless its me telling him this, of course) and he just got very angry with me and accused me of trying to tell him what to think.
Sometimes it is difficult to tell whether he does not understand because you havent communicated it properly, or because he has lost the understanding of the concept. I have learned from bitter experience that it is often better not to have conversations with him as he usually misunderstands what i am saying. I tend now to only tell him about immediate things (oh look at the birds on the bird feeder, Ive just heard that a friend has had a baby) and stuff he has to know about (its cold so you will need a coat). I no longer ask him questions (he interprets this as me telling what to do) or try to find out why something happened (he interprets this as me trying to control him), or give him multiple information. I remember a time our daughter came to visit. She was going to a friends hen party and said she would stay with us overnight. On the evening of the hen party I went out and when I got back OH said that daughter had phoned to say that she wouldnt be coming. I was therefore surprised when she walked through the door the following day. What she had actually said was that she wouldnt be coming that night because was staying with one of the other hens, but she would see us in the morning. This, however, was too much information for OH and he was unable (couldnt) retain it all and only remembered the first statement. I never correct him (unless its something important, like, yes he does take blood thinners) and if he wants to tell me about something I agree with him and never tell him my true opinions. Its a lonely life, but he is no longer so aggressive towards me now. I think the aggression was due to frustration because I was trying to make him think about things that he was no longer capable of. Now that I (mostly) respect his limitations he is much more settled.
There are techniques to improving communication (which have been outlined on here) which should help matters, but please be careful that you dont stray into the realms of concepts that he can no longer understand.
I dont know the sort of things that you are trying to communicate with him, but if it is something that they are no longer able to understand (they cant do it) then however you try and communicate this information they wont be able to understand. I still make this mistake at times and try to talk to my OH in the way that I used to do about something that he can no longer understand. I tried recently to explain about fake news, but he has no understanding of this concept - to him, if he reads it somewhere or someone tells him it then it must be right (unless its me telling him this, of course
) and he just got very angry with me and accused me of trying to tell him what to think.Sometimes it is difficult to tell whether he does not understand because you havent communicated it properly, or because he has lost the understanding of the concept. I have learned from bitter experience that it is often better not to have conversations with him as he usually misunderstands what i am saying. I tend now to only tell him about immediate things (oh look at the birds on the bird feeder, Ive just heard that a friend has had a baby) and stuff he has to know about (its cold so you will need a coat). I no longer ask him questions (he interprets this as me telling what to do) or try to find out why something happened (he interprets this as me trying to control him), or give him multiple information. I remember a time our daughter came to visit. She was going to a friends hen party and said she would stay with us overnight. On the evening of the hen party I went out and when I got back OH said that daughter had phoned to say that she wouldnt be coming. I was therefore surprised when she walked through the door the following day. What she had actually said was that she wouldnt be coming that night because was staying with one of the other hens, but she would see us in the morning. This, however, was too much information for OH and he was unable (couldnt) retain it all and only remembered the first statement. I never correct him (unless its something important, like, yes he does take blood thinners) and if he wants to tell me about something I agree with him and never tell him my true opinions. Its a lonely life, but he is no longer so aggressive towards me now. I think the aggression was due to frustration because I was trying to make him think about things that he was no longer capable of. Now that I (mostly) respect his limitations he is much more settled.
There are techniques to improving communication (which have been outlined on here) which should help matters, but please be careful that you dont stray into the realms of concepts that he can no longer understand.
Dancer 12 I am no saint believe me. 3 months ago I was ready to walk away I was stressed to the hilt but took him back to the Drs and he gave him some new meds and there is now a world of difference.
The other night when I was trying to get him undressed I had a light bulb moment and suddenly I understood what his problem was. EG: I am always telling him what coat to wear because he has no idea what the weather is like, or what shoes he needs because we walk every day and depending where we go depends on shoes or walking boots. He just wanted to make his own decision on how to undress.
I know things will get worse over time - he has already deteriorated over the last 12 mths, much more than I would have guessed. I too have the blank stare now and again and sometimes it's also most as tho' he is deliberately ignoring me and I get accused of being mean to him.
I realised we always had a fun, loving relationship and I found continuing that way even against the odds works best for us. I make a game of most things we do. 'I can clean my teeth quicker than you can' (he was taking up to 8 minutes and making his gums bleed) worked well. Helping him on with a jumper and kissing him on the nose when his face appears, it makes him smile and makes him more willing to do as requested, which is good for both of us.
The other night when I was trying to get him undressed I had a light bulb moment and suddenly I understood what his problem was. EG: I am always telling him what coat to wear because he has no idea what the weather is like, or what shoes he needs because we walk every day and depending where we go depends on shoes or walking boots. He just wanted to make his own decision on how to undress.
I know things will get worse over time - he has already deteriorated over the last 12 mths, much more than I would have guessed. I too have the blank stare now and again and sometimes it's also most as tho' he is deliberately ignoring me and I get accused of being mean to him.
I realised we always had a fun, loving relationship and I found continuing that way even against the odds works best for us. I make a game of most things we do. 'I can clean my teeth quicker than you can' (he was taking up to 8 minutes and making his gums bleed) worked well. Helping him on with a jumper and kissing him on the nose when his face appears, it makes him smile and makes him more willing to do as requested, which is good for both of us.
Last edited:
Rosetta, yes, I think you are right, keep it light and loving. Eye drops means a kiss on the top of his head.
A touch as I pass the chair, a squeeze of the hand when we are out. Just reassurance, connecting.
I use we instead you when appropriate. Sometimes I mirror needs so 'I am thirsty shall we have a drink now.'
If it looks cold i say I better put my warm purple coat, shall I get your warm green one out?
Perhaps it is easier for those of us slower to react too.
I joke when I can, I try to make him smile.
All this takes an energy we do not always have, but it does oil the way, I find.
Sometimes on the stitch in time saves nine approach.
Sometimes when I say what I am going to do, I use, we, so it does not sound like a direct order.
Anything like an order is a real no no. Stubbornness is very real.
I try to assure we are in it together, as we really are.
If this sounds as it I am all sweetness and light, I am NOT! But I do apologise and accept blame if needed and when not needed too. Do not follow what I say, we all have to find a way to cope in our own way.
A touch as I pass the chair, a squeeze of the hand when we are out. Just reassurance, connecting.
I use we instead you when appropriate. Sometimes I mirror needs so 'I am thirsty shall we have a drink now.'
If it looks cold i say I better put my warm purple coat, shall I get your warm green one out?
Perhaps it is easier for those of us slower to react too.
I joke when I can, I try to make him smile.
All this takes an energy we do not always have, but it does oil the way, I find.
Sometimes on the stitch in time saves nine approach.
Sometimes when I say what I am going to do, I use, we, so it does not sound like a direct order.
Anything like an order is a real no no. Stubbornness is very real.
I try to assure we are in it together, as we really are.
If this sounds as it I am all sweetness and light, I am NOT! But I do apologise and accept blame if needed and when not needed too. Do not follow what I say, we all have to find a way to cope in our own way.
Hi Alice A:
Thanks much, I know he can't change and it has to be me. I'm just trying to adjust my way of thinking so that I can better persuade him to do things my way and am looking for ideas on how I can do this to make it easier & less confrontational for both him & me. There have been many terrific ideas and that's all I was asking for I'm not one to stop searching. Thanks Again.
Hope your days get better.
Hi RosettaT:
Thanks Much. I know our physio therapist says that gentle touches & simple guidance seems to work best with him when she was trying to get him to do exercises. I guess I have much learn. It's true we never stop learning.
Hi Rosetta T - I haven’t been on this site for a bit but after having a bad night with my OH spending 6hrs last night telling me that we had burglars and he didn’t want the light in as th burglars would see in, I notic d that you said after having a bad time you had took him to the docs, I have just made an apt to see our doc as th last few weeks have been horrendous, he has to have the gates doors and blinds all shut by 3.30pm even though we are not Overlooked and have burglar alarms on. I was wondering if it as the dark nights . I felt like you ready to tar my hair out but in e I read your note realised that there others out there just doing what we are doing, I often have a good shout but it doesn’t do any good, after a couple of minutes I think well that won’t help. Thank you for the rant and I hope I have mor than 2 hours sleep tonight, xHi RosettaT:
Thanks Much. I know our physio therapist says that gentle touches & simple guidance seems to work best with him when she was trying to get him to do exercises. I guess I have much learn. It's true we never stop learning.
Maryland, lack of sleep is one of the worst things to make most of us irritable fortunately my hubby sleeps very well. Our Dr is fantastic. I've taken my OH to see him a few times over the last 6 weeks. He's one of the few who asks my OH the question but looks to me to see if I agree with my husband's answer or not. I was amazed when we were going through the process of stalising his meds after diagnose that they took every thing he said as gospel. Our Dr also always ask me just before we leave if I am ok, it's obvious he understands what we as carers have to manage and put up with.
I hope the appointment eases the situation for you. I know I was very close to a break down a few months ago.
I hope the appointment eases the situation for you. I know I was very close to a break down a few months ago.
