Nursing Home Guarantor?

[Zuzu72]

Hi all
My mum has recently gone into a nursing home (end stage dementia & bed ridden). Currently she is CHC funded, there are no assets to pay fees or contribute if CHC was withdrawn and the Local Authority took over (just her pension). Yesterday the home handed me a form & asked me to return it signed & witnessed next time I'm there. I looked at it & it's a deed making me a guarantor jointly & severally liable with mum for any unpaid fees. There's no way either my mum or I could pay them & I'm very worried about signing a document saying I agree to be liable. Mum has a financial LPA & I'm her representative but this is asking me to be personally liable

Is this just a formality that everyone signs?
Can I refuse (without making mum have to leave the home)?
Thanks

 

[nitram]

Don't sign, the contract is with the CGC/LA and neither you nor your mother is involved.

If you sign they could claim the amount they are being paid is insufficient and invoice you the difference.

 

[Bunpoots]

Absolutely do not sign!!

My county council have a page at the back of the financial assessment that would’ve made me financially liable for dad’s care costs if I’d signed it... I didn’t!!

 

[Zuzu72]

Thank you, they make it seem that its just a formality, it was only when I started reading...

 

[Zuzu72]

Hi again
Went in today & said I wouldn't sign. They replied everyone signs & it's a formality that doesn't make you financially responsible but here's an excerpt:
"I agree as principal obligator to be jointly & severally liable with the residents (ie separately in addition & to the same extent as the resident) & with anyone who has agreed to pay sums to you for the residents as a 3rd pty contributer (ie also separately in addition & to the same extent as any such 3rd pty contributor) for the payment to you of:
A for all the residential fees
B for all 3rd pty top up contributions
C all lifestyle supplements
D all other fees & any other sumsdue to you under this agreement.....executd & delivered by deed...
On the other side (not part of the agreement by guarantor) it says 'permanent stay: how the residential fees will be funded' with various options on the CHC funding one they have put a weekly amount but under that there is also an option 'total residential fees' which is blank, so I'm think they may try for a top up.
Please help, as mum has an infection & the Dr has just prescribed the end of life meds & I really don't need this worry every time I walk through the door
Thanks

 

[marionq]

Tell them to contact LA which is the funder. Do not sign. Do not worry.

 

[nitram]

Leave them to sort the funding out with the CGC/LA

They appear to be asking for a blank cheque rather than stating a fixed amount.

Don't sign, if they pressurise you say you are taking advice on the wording.

With the end of life meds. prescribed it is extremely unlikely that any attempt to move your mum elsewhere will be made. If an attempt is made it is easily countered.

 

[Kevinl]

I had a similar problem as my wife is funded, when the home's manager aske me for the form I just told her I'd sent it to the LA as the home has a contract with the LA for my wife's care not me.
She wasn't best pleased but so what?
Later after we got to know each other a bit better over several cigarettes in the smoking shed she admitted that I'd done the same as she'd do under the circumstances, never make yourself liable for someone else's debts, never guarantee HP, a loan, a mortgage, rent or anything else for anyone, the only way you can become liable for someone else's debts is if you agree to do so.
Let's say the CHC was stopped, you'd be liable, say you mother passed away and CHC don't pay notice charges you could be liable for anything up to 28 days notice. What happens if the home say she needs extra care or one to one and the CCH don't agree...you'd be liable.
Just do what I did post the form to the CCG and tell the home that's what you've done.
K

 

[marionq]

Your advice about never guaranteeing anything @Kevinl is good. One of the issues with Johns scammer was that he tried to get John to sign a bank guarantee form. Fortunately on that occasion John brought the form to show me and you can imagine my reaction. The scammer couldn’t get a bank account as he had previously reneged on a loan.

Never sign anything unless you are certain you want to.

 

[Zuzu72]

Tell them to contact LA which is the funder. Do not sign. Do not worry.

I've told them that, they just keep saying that I wouldn't have to pay anything, but

I had a similar problem as my wife is funded, when the home's manager aske me for the form I just told her I'd sent it to the LA as the home has a contract with the LA for my wife's care not me.
She wasn't best pleased but so what?
Later after we got to know each other a bit better over several cigarettes in the smoking shed she admitted that I'd done the same as she'd do under the circumstances, never make yourself liable for someone else's debts, never guarantee HP, a loan, a mortgage, rent or anything else for anyone, the only way you can become liable for someone else's debts is if you agree to do so.
Let's say the CHC was stopped, you'd be liable, say you mother passed away and CHC don't pay notice charges you could be liable for anything up to 28 days notice. What happens if the home say she needs extra care or one to one and the CCH don't agree...you'd be liable.
Just do what I did post the form to the CCG and tell the home that's what you've done.
K

Hi,
That's a very good idea, I rang the CCG this afternoon (after posting this) & they seemed very puzzled about it & said they'd call the Home & then get back to me. I'll keep you posted if they do.

 

[mickeym]

could someone advise. I am Deputy with COP for mum. she has moved into a new home. I have permission to rent her property. Her brother tops up.
New contract asking for guarantor. Does my DBS deputy inusernce Bond count for paying her any unmet liabilities to her care home? Could this be her guarantor

 

[nitram]

could someone advise. I am Deputy with COP for mum. she has moved into a new home. I have permission to rent her property. Her brother tops up.
New contract asking for guarantor. Does my DBS deputy inusernce Bond count for paying her any unmet liabilities to her care home? Could this be her guarantor

Don't sign any guarantor unless you are prepared to pay unspecified care fees in the future.

The deputy insurance bond is to protect the COP, which actually has the power, if you abscond with all your mum's assets, it does not cover any debt to the care home.