Moving from hospital to a home with a section 3

[Pet37]

Hi All

I am looking fro some advice please. My Dad is currently in a mental health ward for the elderly in hospital after an overdose led to mini strokes that have led to vascular dementia (a few broad strokes to cover the last two months of bedlam in our lives)

He was on a section two assessment for a month and was moved to a section 3 last week. Yesterday the doctor took Mum aside for a chat and the outcome was they feel he is doing so well that it would be better for him to be in a home rather than in the hospital.

I am really happy about this if I am honest, Mum keeps making noises about him coming home but watching how she copes with him, particularly on a bad day, I am not convinced she would manage him 24/7. He desperately wants to be out of hospital so in my mind a home is the best of both worlds. A little more like being at home while still having professional care givers on hand.

I think we will have a meeting to discuss what happens next with them, but I want some real advise from the people who are living through this. What options will we get? I see lots of people mentioning EMI homes, are they the only choice we will get? I think section 3 means he is entitled to funding but is it enough to get him into a good home? Any help or advice gratefully received.

I want to go into the meeting with as much understanding of things as I can. My Mum can be a little blinkered about things. She can't seem to understand that she may not get to put him in the home she wants just because it is closest to her. Oh the joys of having to be the grumpy adult for both your parents.

 

[KathrynAnne]

I think you will be restricted to EMI homes. This was the case for my Dad and there were only 3 in our area we could choose from. We ended up with the best of a bad bunch I’m afraid.

 

[Pet37]

Thanks KathrynAnne

I had a feeling that might be the case, if so Mum is not going to be a happy bunny as the nearest to her is going to take 2 hours either way to get to as she doesn't drive. Oh well, one drama at a time.

 

[marionq]

I know nothing about section 3 so this another question really. If your Dad improves or at least calms down would he be able to move to another less secure home nearer to your mother? Perhaps one of our members knows the answer to this.

 

[allchange]

I think a lot depends on your local authority, and how determined you are. Push for his human right to a family life and that his wishes need to be taken into account. Some Local authorities try to tell you that you are restricted to their standard rates but in reality they have to provide one suitable home with no top up required. Many homes will not accept Section 3 clients as they are more likely to be difficult/staff and therefore cost intensive and so you may find that none of the three will accept your dad. If you are given a list of possible it means nothing. I would recommend that you research suitable local alternatives and put any forward that you find. Reject any that you deem unsuitable and fight your dad's corner, even if he ends up bed blocking.

Insist on a best interests meeting. You may well find that the psychiatric consultant is on your side as the last thing they want is a failed placement and the patient to pop up on their ward again.

 

[J53]

Hi All

I am looking fro some advice please. My Dad is currently in a mental health ward for the elderly in hospital after an overdose led to mini strokes that have led to vascular dementia (a few broad strokes to cover the last two months of bedlam in our lives)

He was on a section two assessment for a month and was moved to a section 3 last week. Yesterday the doctor took Mum aside for a chat and the outcome was they feel he is doing so well that it would be better for him to be in a home rather than in the hospital.

I am really happy about this if I am honest, Mum keeps making noises about him coming home but watching how she copes with him, particularly on a bad day, I am not convinced she would manage him 24/7. He desperately wants to be out of hospital so in my mind a home is the best of both worlds. A little more like being at home while still having professional care givers on hand.

I think we will have a meeting to discuss what happens next with them, but I want some real advise from the people who are living through this. What options will we get? I see lots of people mentioning EMI homes, are they the only choice we will get? I think section 3 means he is entitled to funding but is it enough to get him into a good home? Any help or advice gratefully received.

I want to go into the meeting with as much understanding of things as I can. My Mum can be a little blinkered about things. She can't seem to understand that she may not get to put him in the home she wants just because it is closest to her. Oh the joys of having to be the grumpy adult for both your parents.

Hi my heart goes out to you having to be the grown up my dad is in a care home and has full funding as can not do anything other than lie on the floor all I can advise is take a pad and pencil and note everything that is said as you will probably be hearing a report from nursing staff about how your dad has been while staying in hospital but mainly you will need to support your mum. My mum was very upset after this meeting which my brother attended with her as your dad is her life, through sickness and health

 

[Kevinl]

My wife was under a section 3 for 6 months in a secure unit and as allchange has said there should be a best interests meeting, at my wife's there were eight of them; 2 social workers, a consultant, an occupational therapist and some of the nurses from the unit and me.
I had the feeling that the decision that she needed EMI nursing care had been made before I entered the room but as I didn't disagree but they did put a lot of reasons why it was the best option and as I say I didn't disagree difficult though it was to shake the feeling I was letting her down by allowing her to go into a care home.
Again as allchange says the first hurdle is finding somewhere that will take someone who's been sectioned most just said no as soon as I mentioned the sectioning.
My wife is one of 5 people that were all sectioned together and have all ended up in the same nursing home and others have come from there since, so the choice of homes is limited.
If you've been under a section 3 then you're entitled to funding under section 117 and the LA has to supply them money to totally cover the cost of care, but that will be the cheapest option and you're unlikely to be offered a choice of more than one.
Unlike normal LA funding someone getting section 117 funding can pay a first party top up and you do get to keep their pensions so you can use his money if you want somewhere more expensive than the LA option.
Social Services won't get involved in finding a home other than their one option, they won't help and they won't recommend as they're not supposed to but I asked a social worker about some of the homes on the list and she said "how would I know I've never been to any of them".
I was lucky in that I got talking to some of the other visitors who were in the same position as me, looking for a care home and we just all sat round and compared notes on where we'd been and what we thought of the places and it was obvious that we were all being made to jump through the same hoops with no help from the SS, until then we'd all been traipsing round the same places with very little clue as to what to look for, what to ask, clueless really.
I'd get social services to tell you the names of any homes within their budget figure and visit them, once you see what's on offer them you can decide if you want to pay more for a better home or a more convenient location, but the sectioning will be a limiting factor.
Good luck in your hunt, they are out there.
K

 

[Pet37]

Thanks for all the advice

I have managed to find a more local EMI unit that looks quite nice so at least it will only take her an hour to get to. The joy of Mum not being able to drive.

I am wondering if he will have to go to a EMI unit as the main reason the hospital are pushing for him to move on is he is so settled now compared to when he arrived. He wanders and does the occasional thing that causes bedlam (like flooding the bathroom) but on the whole he gives them no trouble and he doesn't have 1:1 care.

He certainly seems to be one of the more coherent residents on the ward and I almost get the feeling they want him to be in a home with people that he can interact with to help keep him stimulated for as long as possible. Yesterday she took him down to the hospitals coffee shop and then sat outside with him for a while, which is the first time he has been off of the various wards he's been on for two months. I am taking this all as positive signs.

I am researching homes for all I am worth, I want to walk into the meeting with as much information as I can to try and get the best for dad. I have already told mum that we will go and visit every available home to make sure we get the best for him.

This is where my role as the 'adult' comes in. Mum hears what she wants to and she openly admits she doesn't understand half of what they tell her. I am a planner by nature so I read everything I can to try and get the maximum amount of information. I am trying to convince Mum to apply for deputy-ship for Dad's finances (too late for a POA) but she doesn't want to know. While she is not touching his money at the moment at some point she may have to, and I want her to be covered when she does. I also worry that if something happens to her, my sister and I will not have anyway to cover his costs.

Again thank you all for your advice, I have a feeling I will be needing much more of it before this settles down.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @Pet37
might you take on the Deputyship to save any concerns for the future - and have your mum arrange LPAs for herself so that you can support her with her own finances, which could be a weight off her mind

 

[Pet37]

Hi @Shedrech

That is what I am hoping we will get to eventually but I have found my Mum has to find her own way to these conclusions, I just leave the suggestions with her and see where we go.

I love my Mum to pieces but she can be very obstinate when she sets her mind to it (I can't imagine where I get it from) so I have to work towards these things slowly. I am still trying to make her see that dad being 'sectioned' is not something that needs to be whispered. She is very old school where mental health is something that is not discussed openly. Not the best stance when your eldest daughter has been treated for depression for nearly 20 years and your husband now resides in a mental health ward.