Does anybody know the consequences..?

[canary]

Take it bit at a time @CrestFallen
SWs frequently dont understand the finances either - they probably just saw the house and assumed that it would make her self-funded, but from what you say it may not.

Stay in the house and get the financial assessment sorted, ask about discretionary disregard of the house (if applicable) and then you will know where you stand. I found the person who did OHs financial assessment knowledgeable, very fair and helpful - I asked him lots of questions!

Once you know what the financial situation is then you will be in a better place to think about what to do about the house.

In the meantime think about whether you want to go for CoP deputyship. I honestly think that it is not as onerous and frightening as the jargon makes it sound. You will not be personally responsible for any of her bills or debts, most of the decisions you have to make are just common sense and so long as you are not frittering away her money on buying her Prada handbags or skimming off some of her money and transferring it into your own account (aka stealing from her) there is unlikely to be problems.

 

[Whisperer]

I'm pretty sure the ss want me do all the work then effectively make myself homeless down the line. My attitude is I want to move on this period as been upsetting and unsettling enough and I don't see why I should stay here just to keep it occupied and looked after it for them to have it all in the end any way. My big concern is what they will do with mum if anything , I can't see what they can do to me apart from tell me to get out as I have no legal responsibility. But from my experiences so far it seems they want you to do everything on their behalf. I just don't know the consequences of me taking such action. I really don't want the hassle of it all and be left living in an house that ultimately I can't stay in. I may as well move on now and get on with my life.

Just one point. How old are you. My understanding is the value of a property is ignored where an individual goes into care and there is a resident relative aged 60 yo or older? I am sure I have read this on a past thread. Sorry I cannot be more help but if this age limit applies to you no doubt the suggested help line can provide confirmation.

 

[Beate]

CrestFallen is 50 (see post 7). His/her only chance is a discretionary disregard.

 

[CrestFallen]

I'm under the impression that now ive moved mum into a proper care home ( Friday just gone) and out of the ccg bed this 12 week disregard starts on the home is that correct? Or is there some sort of temporary period where the care home and myself see if its a suitable placement?
The financial woman from the council who did the means test and left me with the illustration of what mum would contribute for those first 12 weeks did say to me that if I didn't go down the deferred payment route how would I pay the £800 bills dropping on the matt if I can't sell the house in those first 12 weeks. I questioned this and said since when am I responsible for the payments and she quipped since now your your mothers representative. I still don't know either who's paying what now she's moved in apart from being told she's getting standard rate for this area off the LA and I have to put £20 top up in. Saying that I've now read one of the fact sheets off a previous link which says if the house is under the 12 week disregard period topups are not to be paid. Are the council purposely leaving me in the dark or just saying anything or is it meant to be this confusing. I hope to be an expert in this by time its all over so I can help others as its terrible feeling like this every day. Yes I will consider the COP route as i don't want the LA pushing me out of mums life. But I'm not going get it until I have to because it seems to me and from what people are saying this is not a done and dusted deal. I think now the SS are saying anything because I don't know any better...

 

[Louise7]

If the care home has already assessed your Mum and said that they can meet her needs there isn't usually an initial temporary assessment period. That's something you'll need to discuss with them if that's what you want.

The woman who did the means test gave you an overview of how the system works. Your situation is different form the 'norm' due to the low value of the property once the outstanding mortgage has been paid off. As already stated, they can not place a deferred payment on a property which has an outstanding mortgage, and a 12 week disregard will only apply if they deem that the total value of your Mum's assets make her a self-funder. I'm assuming that you have provided proof of the value of your Mum's house and the amount of mortgage outstanding so that they can see that your Mum's total assets are less than £24k?

It is confusing but you just need to wait until the financial assessment has been carried out. This will show how they have calculated/treated the value of the property and whether a 12 week disregard applies or not. In the meantime you say that the local authority have agreed to pay their standard rate, so they will pay this directly to the home.

As Canary has already posted - take things one step at a time. When you receive details of the financial assessment you will then know how they are going to treat your Mum's property.

 

[CrestFallen]

Thank you for explaining that Louise I actually understood that lol. Been awake since half 4 thinking this thru as I often am. My social worker is emailing me thru the form today for agreeing to the small weekly top up for the home £20 a week. Not sure I should sign this just yet tho now until the results financial assessment come thru. I take it I'm in my rights to do this. The social worker said there was a six week period where by both parties myself and the home access were both happy with the arrangement. But to be honest I've little faith in anything he tells me which is usually very little because I think he doesn't know. I've told him I want to see him because I'm sick of all the guess work I'm doing. Currently my situation is mums now in a home where id like her stay and I'm waiting to hear off the DWP to be made her appointee. I've no financial assessment results won't have for weeks no COP as I'm going hold off on this until the financial paperwork comes thru then I'm going apply for a discretional disregard depending on if they want the house.
I'm not so sure about they can't do deffered payments because the house is still mortgaged. My understanding is it gets paid off out the eventual sale. Mums allowed £23,500 of this and with administration charges on top I've got to a figure of around £10,000 or slightly more left for the social to defer back. Has my understanding is they can only deffer payments to how much value is left in the home after every one is paid off..
One thing I'm concerned about is time scale as in how all this is taking so long for anything be processed that mums bills for the care will mount up. I know I'm a pain but thanks all of you for trying help me understand..

 

[Bod]

CrestFallen, who is currently paying the mortgage?
This will make a difference to whether or not the house can be sold.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalasse...perty_and_paying_for_residential_care_fcs.pdf
Check this PDF, you might be in a better position than you think. See section 3.1.

Bod

 

[Lindy50]

CrestFallen, who is currently paying the mortgage?
This will make a difference to whether or not the house can be sold.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalasse...perty_and_paying_for_residential_care_fcs.pdf
Check this PDF, you might be in a better position than you think. See section 3.1.

Bod

That’s very interesting @Bod - I hope it helps you, @CrestFallen x

 

[CrestFallen]

Hi Bod

The mortgage is in my mother's name only tho I have contributed to our home obviously in the all the years I've lived with her its only these past few months tho that I've been paying her mortgage for her out of my own pocket to prevent it falling into arrears.

 

[care2share]

Hi Bod

The mortgage is in my mother's name only tho I have contributed to our home obviously in the all the years I've lived with her its only these past few months tho that I've been paying her mortgage for her out of my own pocket to prevent it falling into arrears.

Crestfallen,
I think if I were in your situation, I would probably not apply to be Deputy for Finance through COP, definitely not voluntarily leave the home, not undertake to pay top-ups and only pay any mortgage repayments if they are very small amounts. What I would do though, is keep up utility payments as they will apply penalties for non payment whatever the circumstances. I hope the Council will soon realise there is absolutely nothing in it for them.
Please do not stress out. Your mother cannot be robbed of vast amounts of money in care fees, which is what would have happened if her home was of greater value, and for that reason, I'm glad for you.

 

[CrestFallen]

Funny enough in my early morning stress wake up I've just been thinking I'll do the COP what choices do I have as currently I can't do anything.
So what's likely to happen if I follow that advice because to be honest it was what I originally planned on doing. Only it seems I'll just get deeper in the mess if I don't. Try not worry , I only wish I could. Feel like what ever I do if the council end up funding mum fully after the house is sold or if its not and by some miracle I get a disregard that they will move her to some cheap care home where you wouldn't put your pets..

 

[Louise7]

they will move her to some cheap care home where you wouldn't put your pets..

There are also expensive care homes where you wouldn't put your pets too! The local authority have a set limit they will pay but don't assume that a 'cheaper' home is necessarily going to be awful. It is the level of care provided that is important rather than the state of the décor etc so please don't think that all 'cheap' homes are bad because from personal experience - Mum was placed in homes within the LA rate that we had no choice over - they are not. The problem with agreeing to a top up to get a 'better' home is that the care home fees will rise, and so will the top up, so what is affordable now might not be in a year or two.

 

[CrestFallen]

So far I've found the carers to be very good in both homes mums been in I do agree. My main concern is them putting her miles away the other end of the city hence why I acted and got her in this one very close to where I work. Hence why I agreed over the phone with my SW to the topup fee. Im aware these prices change I asked him and he said they don't all put the price up but we will see. I've not signed nothing yet , but I do wonder is it normal for a social worker not give you there mobile number or email address. Ive got several numbers he rings me on all land lines and I find it difficult to track him down. He said he would email me the top up form but hasn't. I suspect this is because he doesn't want me having his email and also because I've requested a meeting with him to try sort out some of this uncertainty..

 

[canary]

I do wonder is it normal for a social worker not give you there mobile number or email address.

They dont like giving out personal contact details (which IMO seems reasonable), but OHs SW did give us the number of his direct work line.

 

[Bod]

Hi Bod

The mortgage is in my mother's name only tho I have contributed to our home obviously in the all the years I've lived with her its only these past few months tho that I've been paying her mortgage for her out of my own pocket to prevent it falling into arrears.

Get your paperwork together, to show your outgoings in respect of the mortgage payments.
Bank statements, letter from mortgage company, anything to show your involvement.
Any receipts for work done/items supplied, etc. in your name.
Better to have them to hand, than trying to find them in a panic later.

Bod

 

[canary]

Bank statements, letter from mortgage company, anything to show your involvement.
Any receipts for work done/items supplied, etc. in your name.

These are the sort of things that you will need to show the person who does your financial assessment. Although you will get quite a comprehensive list from them telling you what you need to show them it certainly wont be amiss to start getting things together now.

 

[CrestFallen]

Anyone know if there is a penalty for not telling the DLA about her going in hospital and then in care with in 28 days. I didn't know they needed informing until last week im now also making myself an appointee for mums DWP. I know they've already told me she's over paid and they will want it back but do they penalise you as well.

While I'm at it regards deffered payments scheme can anyone tell me if mum would still be entitled to her limit of £23,500 from the sale of our home while she still alive or do the council take everything..? If she is allowed to have that from the sale as well as the mortgage money going to the bank to pay them off plus admin fees , there would very little equity for paying back the council under the deffered payment..Or doesn't it work like that.. ?

 

[Kevinl]

The building society will hold the First or Principal mortgage on the property they get there money back before anyone else as technically until you pay off the mortgage they actually own the house, so if you get a settlement figure from them that's the money they get before anyone else gets a look in.
Then the LA can't touch the last £13.5k of your mum's money, the £23.5k is where the LA help with finance it's the last £13.5k they totally disregard so the minimum they have to leave her is £13.5k.
If after selling the house, paying the mortgage, paying the estate agent and solicitor for the sale, clearing the house and all the other moving costs and then disregarding the £13.5k there's anything left and from the sound of it there won't be then the LA can use it towards her care.
Houses (as I believe you've said on another thread) that are in need of "updating" usually sell for well under the market rate, sometimes as little as half so I'd get a couple of estate agents to value the place, get a settlement figure from the mortgage holder and do the sums, if you can show the LA there'll be nothing left they might just back off as making a carer homeless for no good reason never looks good in the press.
Fact is you may be dealing with someone at the SS who doesn't have a clue, standard practise for the SS is to do everything by phone or verbally as there's no paper trail and no evidence about who said what, phone numbers are always withheld when they call and no way will you get an e-mail address in my experience. When I started to e-mail the main SS contact e-mail I CC'ed my local MP in on the e-mail too, that got a reaction.
K

 

[CrestFallen]

Haha awesome Kevin I've got his email address as some one gave it me when I was chasing him down. I actually don't think he knows anything just his procedures. Perhaps I need speak to my local mp as well and ask my SW about applying for discretionary disregard. It hurks me that I'm expected go thru everything arrange everything then make myself homeless. Just doesn't seem fare after all these years and its going kill me moving out and moving all mums belongings. Tho I know emotional attachment counts for zero in these matters. Cheers for explaining the threshold on what mums allowed keep, I'd say there's around 15 - 20 grand in it for the LA. Would that be the same situation if it didn't sell until mum passed away or do they take every penny then under the differed payments..?

 

[canary]

I dont think from what you have said, that the person you spoke to previously about paying for your mums care home is the person who will be doing the financial assessment - I do hope not anyway as they didnt have a clue. The person who did OHs financial assessment was very knowledgable and helpful.

Im not sure how deferred payment works, but if there is only 15 -20 grand for the LA they may be more willing to do a discretionary disregard. I would also try and get the house value down as low as possible - when I got mums bungalow valued I explained the situation to the estate agents - they always have 3 prices in their head; the one they put in their adverts, the one they expect to get and the lowest one they would accept. See if you can get them to quote the lowest one.