Continuing Healthcare

[Flashharry]

Sorry if this has been covered many times but I've been trying to find out more about this for weeks but feel I'm going around in circles, so someone suggested posting here.
My Mum has severe dementia, she's looked after by my 91 year old (super) Dad at their home but we've agreed she needs to go into a home. Dad has helpers in the morning and evening to get her up, wash and dress her and get her to take her drugs (which is getting harder).
I understand her main condition requires social and not medical assistance but she's also really bad on her feet, we've had a stairlift installed but she's fallen over a number of times, so either I go over or occasionally a neighbour helps or they've called 999 a few times. She's also doubly incontinent. So having looked at the checklist looks to me that they should at least consider her. So who do I contact social services or the GP surgery (who've not been great) and can anyone who's gone through this give me any suggestions that might help.
Thanks....

 

[karaokePete]

Hello @Flashharry, you are welcome here.

There are a couple of AS Publications that you may find helpful and you can locate them with these links
http://alzheimerweb.prod.acquia-sit...and-factsheets/booklet-when-does-nhs-pay-care

https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/sites...et_paying_for_care_and_support_in_england.pdf

Beyond that you may find the experts on the help line can guide you and the details are

National Dementia Helpline
0300 222 11 22
Our helpline advisers are here for you.
Helpline opening hours:
Monday to Wednesday 9am – 8pm
Thursday and Friday 9am – 5pm
Saturday and Sunday 10am – 4pm

 

[karaokePete]

BTW, you may also get some assistance by looking for support services in your area and you can do a post code search for what's available by following this link https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/find-support-near-you

 

[Bronzestraw]

Flasharry. Fully sympathise. Looks like your father's been doing a fantastic job given his age. Firstly, does he need respite care? As one in a similar position going sitting on the same roundabout, the answer must be yes! Secondly your GP. should be doing much more. They are the key to other services. Sadly local authorities are sub-contracting everything to charitable organisations to save money. It takes people like us round in circles. The GP should be onto social services who should be arranging for the county council to do an assessment of both parents, your father for respite care and mother for either a care package or a care home if she's very advanced.
Through the county council father can get an NHS grant toward to cost of respite care to give him a break. (It was until recently £1200pa. reduced to £900 and now it' s £600 but at least it still helps, a little) If mother has more the £23,500 in savings (including the house) she will probably have to be self funding (although if nursing care is required that part is paid for by the NHS)
For more information try your local Carers Hub. They can give advice on everything, including finances. The system is such that you are on a frustrating learning curve and have to fight for everything but that the State for you. Try to get a nominated social worker to help you through the maze.Best of luck.

 

[Flashharry]

Thank you. I've contacted my local office who have been really helpful but admit this isn't an area they can really help with.

 

[Flashharry]

Bronzestraw. Thank you. We've been trying for years to get respite for my Dad. I've not heard of NHS funding towards that but the problem is my parent's GP Surgery is pretty dreadful Dad has to go through hoops to get them to visit, as he can't get Mum to them. They even tried to diagnose her recent back problem over the phone. My Mum is really bad now, needs everything doing for her including feeding on bad days. And the Social Worker has visited in the past then went off sick. So they "closed" my Mum's case file.
What's the Local Carers Hub? Not heard of them. Who organises them?

 

[witts1973]

Bronzestraw. Thank you. We've been trying for years to get respite for my Dad. I've not heard of NHS funding towards that but the problem is my parent's GP Surgery is pretty dreadful Dad has to go through hoops to get them to visit, as he can't get Mum to them. They even tried to diagnose her recent back problem over the phone. My Mum is really bad now, needs everything doing for her including feeding on bad days. And the Social Worker has visited in the past then went off sick. So they "closed" my Mum's case file.
What's the Local Carers Hub? Not heard of them. Who organises them?

Our local surgery is a bit like that,they diagnosed things over the phone several times and prescribed creams for my mums inner ladies parts that didn't do anything they sent sent an advanced nurse practitioner out who didn't have a clue,it wasn't until an actual doctor visited that made a diagnosis in 2 minutes that my mother was prescribed the correct cream that worked

 

[witts1973]

Bronzestraw. Thank you. We've been trying for years to get respite for my Dad. I've not heard of NHS funding towards that but the problem is my parent's GP Surgery is pretty dreadful Dad has to go through hoops to get them to visit, as he can't get Mum to them. They even tried to diagnose her recent back problem over the phone. My Mum is really bad now, needs everything doing for her including feeding on bad days. And the Social Worker has visited in the past then went off sick. So they "closed" my Mum's case file.
What's the Local Carers Hub? Not heard of them. Who organises them?

If you get the number for community nurses they can be of help outside of GP hours so evenings and weekends,they visit the same day or the following day and are very understanding

 

[Kevinl]

If mother has more the £23,500 in savings (including the house) she will probably have to be self funding (although if nursing care is required that part is paid for by the NHS).

This should be excluding the house, not including, if the mother needs funding and her partner still lives in the house it is a mandatory disregard so doesn't get included in a financial assessment by the Local Authority.
My wife was sectioned for 6 months, has been in an EMI nursing home for over 2 years, is and has been for a long time doubly incontinent, is classed as a high fall risk by the home so it needs 2 members of staff to move her and as a high risk for choking so can only be fed soft food as she hasn't been able to feed herself for about 3 years...bottom line, no, she's not eligible for CHC.
I'm surprised that even the people in the nursing home don't get CHC even when they're on end of life care and are bed bound and being fed nasally, the home don't even bother applying as it's so hard to get but they will support the family if they want to apply.
There's a whole thread on the link below about CHC, you can see the experiences other people have had on there and it isn't good.
K

https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/chc-continuing-healthcare-support-thread.86059/

 

[Flashharry]

Kevin. I thought that might be the case. A friend's mother is in a similar condition to my Mum and was eligible for CHC but that's in a different council's area. I'll try to get an appointment to talk this through with a GP at their surgery but I'm not hopeful...

General question, GP first or Social Worker....

 

[canary]

A good rule of thumb on whether you are likely to get Continuing Health Care is :
Does she/he require a qualified nurse on the premises at all times?
Things like washing, dressing, dealing with incontinence, feeding, moving/hoisting can all be done by carers and dont require a qualified nurse

 

[Saffie]

A good rule of thumb on whether you are likely to get Continuing Health Care is :
Does she/he require a qualified nurse on the premises at all times?
Things like washing, dressing, dealing with incontinence, feeding, moving/hoisting can all be done by carers and dont require a qualified nurse

Not necessarily. That is the rule of thumb for requiring a nursing home not CHC funding. Needing a nurse on site at all times does not necessarily qualify for CHC funding, far from it. However when someone moves into a nursing home CHC will be applied for and the nursing element usually approved. However, it usually makes little difference to the overall cost of the home.
Serious illness, immobility and so may other genuine medical conditions do not meet the criteria but one thing that does seem to qualify is severe aggression.
Of course, each authority has their own interpretation of the checklist and the full DST so nothing is set in stone but with budgets ever tightening the bar is having to be being set higher all the time.

 

[canary]

Yes, that is true @Saffie but you have to apply for CHC in order to get FNC.
I did say it was only a rule of thumb - so many people think that they should be eligible for CHC, just because they are incontinent, need feeding,have to be hoisted etc which just doesnt count.

 

[Saffie]

Yes, that is true @Saffie but you have to apply for CHC in order to get FNC.
I did say it was only a rule of thumb - so many people think that they should be eligible for CHC, just because they are incontinent, need feeding,have to be hoisted etc which just doesnt count.

You’re right, they are far from the criteria for the funding . I did mention that CHC will be applied for if someone goes into a nursing home and that the nursing care element (FNC) should be approved even if the CHC funding is refused. I found it a bit absurd that someone with practically no mobility, even unable to lean forward in a chair, was classed as moderate in the Mobility catergory because they weren’t capable of resisting being hoisted! Aggression seems to be the keyword!

 

[canary]

Aggression seems to be the keyword!

It does indeed - and even then its not certain, it needs to be extreme and unpredictable

 

[Saffie]

Very true!