Tenants in Common?

[Cate001]

It's been a very long since I have posted after mum passed away.
I'm hoping someone can help. My closest friends husband has been diagnosed with AD. She has a POA in place. It's also been suggested to her that she and hubby should change her joint ownership on the house they own to something called Tenants in Common. This was by a firm of advisors. The idea being should her husband need a NH then she won't have to pay NH fees. I might be being an old cynic, but if something sounds to good to be true, then it is too good to be true.

I have several concerns, firstly that she could end up in a real mess, should hubby pass away and she wants to sell up for whatever reason, could the other person now the new joint tenant stop her (her son) and thirdly should the son divorce could the X wife claim a share of the property? Seems a mine field to me. Any thoughts thankfully received.

 

[jenniferpa]

Well if she remains living in the marital home, its disregarded anyway. But what this would do, would allow her to change her will so that if she predeceased him, she could leave her share of the property to someone else.

 

[jenniferpa]

Ah you've edited since I responded.

Regarding your edit: I'm assuming that the husband no longer has capacity, or if he does, he has no intention of changing his will? In which case, he can and should still leave his share of the property to his wife. When you own a property jointly as they currently do, the surviving spouse automatically inherits the deceased spouses share. When you own the property as tenants in common you have the right to leave your share of the property to someone else. Now if the husbands current will does not address the property directly but leaves his residual estate to the son, with the expectation that the wife has already got the house based on the joint ownership that might be grounds for concern. If, on the other hand, the will is a straightforward "I leave all my property to my wife" sort of thing then the son doesn't come into the equation. He would not become a joint owner until the person who had left him their share of the property died. So non applicable if the husband predeceased the wife.

 

[Cate]

Ah you've edited since I responded.

Regarding your edit: I'm assuming that the husband no longer has capacity, or if he does, he has no intention of changing his will? In which case, he can and should still leave his share of the property to his wife. When you own a property jointly as they currently do, the surviving spouse automatically inherits the deceased spouses share. When you own the property as tenants in common you have the right to leave your share of the property to someone else. Now if the husbands current will does not address the property directly but leaves his residual estate to the son, with the expectation that the wife has already got the house based on the joint ownership that might be grounds for concern. If, on the other hand, the will is a straightforward "I leave all my property to my wife" sort of thing then the son doesn't come into the equation. He would not become a joint owner until the person who had left him their share of the property died. So non applicable if the husband predeceased the wife.

Thanks Jennifer. Basically my friend would be better off to leave things as they are, and not go down the tenants in common route. Her husband has some capacity some of the time, he has some insight on a good day. Thanks again and best wishes

 

[jenniferpa]

Well I wouldn't necessarily agree. It does rather depend if she would really like to leave her son something or would rather all the value the house go to support her husband in the event of his death. There are advantages to both approaches: the first may result in the Local Authority providing funding, at least at a certain level, the second would provide the husband with more money to self-fund (and I have to say, the primary advantage of being self-funding is that you have more choice).

But assuming that the husband predeceases her, the house remains off the table while he's in a home, and on his death is transferred to her seamlessly.

 

[marionq]

The usual arrangement for husbands and wives is that they leave the home to each other but in the event of their deaths it then goes to their offspring. This is what we did with tenants in common. When I realised John had Alzheimer’s I added a codicil to my will that my half should now go to my daughters directly and not to my husband. He is unlikely, though it is not impossible, to Outlive me and the value would otherwise go to a care home.

If he dwindled on for years there would be nothing left of our lifetimes work.

 

[Philbo]

The usual arrangement for husbands and wives is that they leave the home to each other but in the event of their deaths it then goes to their offspring. This is what we did with tenants in common. When I realised John had Alzheimer’s I added a codicil to my will that my half should now go to my daughters directly and not to my husband. He is unlikely, though it is not impossible, to Outlive me and the value would otherwise go to a care home.

If he dwindled on for years there would be nothing left of our lifetimes work.

I have recently done the same (my wife has dementia) but our solicitor also recommended that we changed to being tenants in common, which he arranged with the land registry for us at the same time.

 

[mancmum]

Don't forget if you do something to attempt to avoid paying care home fees then money can be clawed back. My husband and I intend to move to being tenants in common but this is because if he or I wish to start a new relationship after the death of one or the other of us then at least I will have made sure that my share of the house will go to the kids.

 

[marionq]

Don't forget if you do something to attempt to avoid paying care home fees then money can be clawed back. My husband and I intend to move to being tenants in common but this is because if he or I wish to start a new relationship after the death of one or the other of us then at least I will have made sure that my share of the house will go to the kids.

We wouldn’t be avoiding paying for care with his half. That is protected. My half though would go to my daughters. That is not against any rules. Of course if I need care then the lot goes unless I can find out what that magic pill is that solves everything in this world!

 

[witts1973]

I live in the same home that I have lived in since birth and look after my mother who has dementia,diagnosed a couple of years ago,I'm only 45 so if they said she had to go in to a home I would be homeless so that's always at the back of my mind,having to start again,if I was 60 I would be ok,as the rules allow that to happen

 

[sixy74]

I live in the same home that I have lived in since birth and look after my mother who has dementia,diagnosed a couple of years ago,I'm only 45 so if they said she had to go in to a home I would be homeless so that's always at the back of my mind,having to start again,if I was 60 I would be ok,as the rules allow that to happen

Hi
I’ve done quite a bit of research regarding this over the past few months and like you say unless you are over 60 or have a disability then yes you may have to leave your home, however I have also read that if this has been your permanent residence for a long time as in your case, then the council can apply discretion. It may be worth getting some sort of legal advice sooner than later. It’s wrong to think that a son/daughter who has lived at home all of their life and maybe even given up their job and or relationships and in some cases their life to look after an elderly parent and put money into the household can be treated like this in 2018.

 

[witts1973]

Hi
I’ve done quite a bit of research regarding this over the past few months and like you say unless you are over 60 or have a disability then yes you may have to leave your home, however I have also read that if this has been your permanent residence for a long time as in your case, then the council can apply discretion. It may be worth getting some sort of legal advice sooner than later. It’s wrong to think that a son/daughter who has lived at home all of their life and maybe even given up their job and or relationships and in some cases their life to look after an elderly parent and put money into the household can be treated like this in 2018.

Thanks I'm very attached to my mother and I lost my dad and my brother so it's just me and mum,it does seem ruthless that they would throw me out,and perhaps it would depend how long I can manage to have her at home,there is enough to contend with being a carer without the dread of being made homeless my son lives with us 7 days out of 14 but he's 16 in November and he's a little unsure of himself,his school have only just got round to telling us he may be a little autistic and he will be distraught if he can no longer live with me his father, as he has lived with us half of the time since he was 2,if my mum was aware of this she would be absolutely devastated.
I did speak to citizens advice but they didn't have a lot to say,the lady said "well if my mother needed care,I would be quite happy for the home to be sold to pay for it"they did say that they could negotiate for me,but I'm not entirely sure what that meant.
Unfortunately social housing is a scarcity it would be nice in an ideal world to be given a flat when you have your family home taken off you by the council,but they said to me as I don't receive the child benefit I would be treated as if my son doesn't exist,but he's nearly 16 now so I suppose that's irrelevant now

 

[sixy74]

Thanks I'm very attached to my mother and I lost my dad and my brother so it's just me and mum,it does seem ruthless that they would throw me out,and perhaps it would depend how long I can manage to have her at home,there is enough to contend with being a carer without the dread of being made homeless my son lives with us 7 days out of 14 but he's 16 in November and he's a little unsure of himself,his school have only just got round to telling us he may be a little autistic and he will be distraught if he can no longer live with me his father, as he has lived with us half of the time since he was 2,if my mum was aware of this she would be absolutely devastated.
I did speak to citizens advice but they didn't have a lot to say,the lady said "well if my mother needed care,I would be quite happy for the home to be sold to pay for it"they did say that they could negotiate for me,but I'm not entirely sure what that meant.
Unfortunately social housing is a scarcity it would be nice in an ideal world to be given a flat when you have your family home taken off you by the council,but they said to me as I don't receive the child benefit I would be treated as if my son doesn't exist,but he's nearly 16 now so I suppose that's irrelevant now

Hi
I think who ever you spoke to at Citizens Advice shouldn't be in the job, it makes my blood boil when people who have no idea what it is like to be a carer for a person with a dementia and a son who may possibly be autistic speak such rubbish. I'm not up on the legality of these things but I would have thought having your son living with you even if it is 7 days out of 14 may have some sway, especially as he may be autistic, the upheaval etc of having to move home could make his condition worse. Hopefully it will not come to this and somebody who is up on these things will be able to advise you.
I hope things work out for you as you have already had enough to deal with losing your Dad and Brother. Keep checking in here for advice as the guys are brilliant and always have an idea up their sleeves.

 

[witts1973]

Hi
I think who ever you spoke to at Citizens Advice shouldn't be in the job, it makes my blood boil when people who have no idea what it is like to be a carer for a person with a dementia and a son who may possibly be autistic speak such rubbish. I'm not up on the legality of these things but I would have thought having your son living with you even if it is 7 days out of 14 may have some sway, especially as he may be autistic, the upheaval etc of having to move home could make his condition worse. Hopefully it will not come to this and somebody who is up on these things will be able to advise you.
I hope things work out for you as you have already had enough to deal with losing your Dad and Brother. Keep checking in here for advice as the guys are brilliant and always have an idea up their sleeves.

Hi thanks the school has been saying he's not writing a lot or sometimes anything particularly in English lessons and have been concerned for a while,it's a bit late as he has his GCSES soon,but they are going to access him soon to see if he is autistic so I suppose that could help