Care home fee annual increases

[snollygoster7]

Hi so the obligatory letter has arrived and mums fees have gone up by 7.5% this year, following a 5% increase last year. Both times, the care home are using the increase in minimum wage to try and justify it.

All in all, Mums been there now 18 months and has gone from paying £930/pw to £1050/pw

That seems like quite the rise to me. The question I have, is (without moving homes, which would not be good for Mum, but also not impossible) is there actually anything at all we can do about this ?

I'd also be intrigued to know if the same fees are being applied to new entrants, which won't be hard to find out of course.

Mum is self funding, & has earlyish dementia but is really one of the easiest patients they have.

 

[Yellowduck]

Hi so the obligatory letter has arrived and mums fees have gone up by 7.5% this year, following a 5% increase last year. Both times, the care home are using the increase in minimum wage to try and justify it.

All in all, Mums been there now 18 months and has gone from paying £930/pw to £1050/pw

That seems like quite the rise to me. The question I have, is (without moving homes, which would not be good for Mum, but also not impossible) is there actually anything at all we can do about this ?

I'd also be intrigued to know if the same fees are being applied to new entrants, which won't be hard to find out of course.

Mum is self funding, & has earlyish dementia but is really one of the easiest patients they have.

I am afraid I cannot answer your question, but it seems ridiculously high increases.

I suppose one of the things you have to look at is whether they take social funded residents as well as self funders. If they do, then I expect they spread the total increase in cost to the self funders, as the Council will not pay any more - full stop!

You also need to look at whether they are full and have a waiting list, or whether they have empty rooms. If they are not full, and they take social funded residents as well, then I would be tempted to try and negotiate and say you MAY have to look at alternative homes. Surely it would be better having your mum in a room paying £950 than either an empty room, or another socially funded resident paying £485 !!!

My Mum has just gone into a home at £720 per week, so we do not know what the increases will be. The home has just had its second CQC 'needs improvement rating', which, in a way, is not a bad thing, as it will not prompt a rush of applications which may make them think twice about putting up fees. Also, it is a church charity run, not for profit home, so hopefully when they do make an increase, it will be reasonable.

 

[SnowWhite]

I dont think theres anything you CAN do sadly. At Mums first home we were paying £650 a week for just a couple of months then it went up by £50 a week and the care got worse. I felt we were being ripped off especially as the majority in there were not self funders and SS were paying a lot less for them. As you said, my Mum was one of the easiest to look after too.

I dont know what the situation is where you live but around here All the good homes have long waiting lists and owners know this so take the attitude that you canntake it or leave it! Sorry I cant help more.

 

[snollygoster7]

how do we find out how many LA ppl the home has ? is there an easy way please ?

 

[Kevinl]

how do we find out how many LA ppl the home has ? is there an easy way please ?

Probably not, it would be a breach of confidence to reveal personal details about someone to a third party. I can only hope that, as children you didn't behave in such a cruel way to children who got free school meals. Someone else's personal circumstances are none of your business.
K

 

[love.dad.but..]

When dad was in his NH annual increases between 8-10% were applied, at end of life his weekly fees were almost £1300 and the NH also received FNC which I think was £155, paid directly to the NH. I never had any success in negotiating the increases down.

 

[notsogooddtr]

Probably not, it would be a breach of confidence to reveal personal details about someone to a third party. I can only hope that, as children you didn't behave in such a cruel way to children who got free school meals. Someone else's personal circumstances are none of your business.
K

Well said

 

[snollygoster7]

Probably not, it would be a breach of confidence to reveal personal details about someone to a third party. I can only hope that, as children you didn't behave in such a cruel way to children who got free school meals. Someone else's personal circumstances are none of your business.
K

I don't want to know other peoples circumstances nor do I judge them. I was merely asking whether I can find out if the home has a mixture of funding or whether everyone is self funded. If it the latter then I'd assume the above inflationary rises are across the board, even for newcomers to the home. Plenty of ppl on here seem to know about their respective homes, I just wondered how they knew.

 

[love.dad.but..]

I don't want to know other peoples circumstances nor do I judge them. I was merely asking whether I can find out if the home has a mixture of funding or whether everyone is self funded. If it the latter then I'd assume the above inflationary rises are across the board, even for newcomers to the home. Plenty of ppl on here seem to know about their respective homes, I just wondered how they knew.

When I looked round dad's NH...I asked the manager.....at that time and no doubt it changed across dad's nearly 3 years...she was candid in telling me that they rely as a working business model on 60% self funding the remaining part funded or fully funded whether that be LA or NHS/CHC. My question was part of my discussion around what happens if funds run out, top ups and knowing the ratio they worked to gave me a clearer understanding if dad's circumstances changed and I asked for reasons none of which was to find out individual personal circumstances of the residents.

 

[Yellowduck]

Probably not, it would be a breach of confidence to reveal personal details about someone to a third party. I can only hope that, as children you didn't behave in such a cruel way to children who got free school meals. Someone else's personal circumstances are none of your business.
K

I do not care how many people are council funded or not. However my concern, and my duty as PoA looking after her funds, is that my Mother is not subsidising them.

I did not act, nor did my children, in any 'cruel way' to children receiving free school meals. But then again. we were not being asked to pay for them .......

 

[jugglingmum]

But then again. we were not being asked to pay for them .......

Perhaps I have missed something, but I thought that the taxes we all pay, pay for free school meals and LA funded care so we are indirectly paying for them.

 

[lemonjuice]

Actually that increase is less than ones I had for my mother during her nearly 6 year stay.

During the period from her entry into the Home and her final payment, the total increase was over 50% in total. One year the increase was 27% and although I protested and had an interview with the owner, they were not prepared to budge on that figure. Obviously with a huge hike like that further increases were also effected as to percentage value.

 

[love.dad.but..]

I do not care how many people are council funded or not. However my concern, and my duty as PoA looking after her funds, is that my Mother is not subsidising them.

I did not act, nor did my children, in any 'cruel way' to children receiving free school meals. But then again. we were not being asked to pay for them .......

Unfortunately the industry is a take it or leave it type so even gaining the knowledge you want I am not sure it is of any benefit to know or that you can effect any change. What perhaps is more important is are you happy with the care?

 

[SnowWhite]

I don't want to know other peoples circumstances nor do I judge them. I was merely asking whether I can find out if the home has a mixture of funding or whether everyone is self funded. If it the latter then I'd assume the above inflationary rises are across the board, even for newcomers to the home. Plenty of ppl on here seem to know about their respective homes, I just wondered how they knew.

The reason I know is that I live in a rural community where just about everybody knows everybody else! I also worked with older people (not as a carer) so I know many of them and their families. Because it was a very small home you chatted to people in the home or the car park.

My Mum was paying £650 a week for her room but the woman who got it when we took Mum away was only having to contribute £30 a week for it. Her Son in Law told me that himself.

 

[jenniferpa]

but the woman who got it when we took Mum away was only having to contribute £30 a week for it. Her Son in Law told me that himself.

I think you have to assume that either he didn't know what he was talking about or there were some crossed wires there.

Everyone who is LA subsidized pays the vast majority of their state pension to defray the cost.

 

[canary]

I wonder whether the £30 was a top-up fee?

 

[jenniferpa]

The only situation I can think of where a person would be paying their own top up fee long term is if they were getting 117 aftercare.

 

[Yellowduck]

Perhaps I have missed something, but I thought that the taxes we all pay, pay for free school meals and LA funded care so we are indirectly paying for them.

And when Care home fees are dealt with in the same way as free school meals, through taxation, then it would be a lot fairer...

At the moment it appears to be a small number of self funders subsidising council places, in homes that take both.

This would be the same as the 'non free school meal pupils' directly funding the free school meal pupils within the same school.

 

[SnowWhite]

I think you have to assume that either he didn't know what he was talking about or there were some crossed wires there.

Everyone who is LA subsidized pays the vast majority of their state pension to defray the cost.

I’m telling you what he told me. I assume they take most of her pension (leaving her a few quid spending money) and maybe he means they pay £30. Why would he lie to me?

 

[SnowWhite]

And when Care home fees are dealt with in the same way as free school meals, through taxation, then it would be a lot fairer...

At the moment it appears to be a small number of self funders subsidising council places, in homes that take both.

This would be the same as the 'non free school meal pupils' directly funding the free school meal pupils within the same school.

that would be fairer Yellowduck.

According to this 40% are self funders but this is last years figures so I’m guessing that its even higher now.

https://www.ft.com/content/6c61fa30-f1dc-11e6-8758-6876151821a6