Health and Welfare Power of Attorney

[Little Circles]

Took my Mum to the Dementia Doctor as a follow up appointment and afterward saw a dementia advice team and I was asked if I had Power of Attorney for Health and Welfare, I have power of Attorney for Financial matters, but not Health and Welfare. I was wondering if I need Health and Welfare as I am not medically trained so I assumed I would always take the medical advice
Could you give me any advice on this

Thanks

 

[love.dad.but..]

Some on TP would say you don't need H and W and sometimes you never need it. The medical profession can overide or make the final decision rather than an attorney and will talk things over with family. However I had it for dad and whilst I didn't have any major problems there were a couple of occasions when I needed it to speak up for dad and for the medics to justify their decision and thinking to me. If lack of mental capacity isn't an issue I would get it done. You may never need to use it but you don't know you need it until you do.

 

[jenniferpa]

Hi there. Health and welfare lpas aren't just for medical issues, but also about things such as where to live. In fact, hardly at all about medical issues, since doctors have a duty to treat patients appropriately.

If your mother still has capacity, I would strongly suggest setting up such an lpa. If she doesn't, well the problem is moot, since it's rare that h &w deputyship is granted, which leads to another point: most people who don't have them manage because family should be consulted. And they mostly are. Where it gets difficult is 1) getting people to talk to you and 2) if there is family disagreement. 1) is particularly relevant as strictly speaking if it did come to something like a medical decision, while you might well be asked what your mother might have decided, you wouldn't be necessarily be given access to the medical records on which that decision might need to be based.

 

[Little Circles]

Some on TP would say you don't need H and W and sometimes you never need it. The medical profession can overide or make the final decision rather than an attorney and will talk things over with family. However I had it for dad and whilst I didn't have any major problems there were a couple of occasions when I needed it to speak up for dad and for the medics to justify their decision and thinking to me. If lack of mental capacity isn't an issue I would get it done. You may never need to use it but you don't know you need it until you do.

Sounds a good idea, is it a separate application?

 

[Jo Sutton]

Hi @Little Circles

I haven't had to use POA for Health & Welfare yet, so this is only my untutored understanding:

I'm pretty sure that it allows you to make 'best interests' decisions for your Mum if she is unable to do so herself. "Should we or shouldn't we operate?" sort of things, that need patient consent.

It also gets you over the 'patient confidentiality' barriers, although in my experience, medical professionals will liaise very closely with a carer, especially if they understand dementia, whether or not the carer has H&W POA.

Other members have said that they have got on very well without the POA, so I don't know how much use it is. I'm sure others will be along with more experience very soon ...

Hugs

Jo xx

 

[love.dad.but..]

Sounds a good idea, is it a separate application?

Yes just as the finance one procedure and fee the same apply in the same way you did finance

 

[Baker17]

Took my Mum to the Dementia Doctor as a follow up appointment and afterward saw a dementia advice team and I was asked if I had Power of Attorney for Health and Welfare, I have power of Attorney for Financial matters, but not Health and Welfare. I was wondering if I need Health and Welfare as I am not medically trained so I assumed I would always take the medical advice
Could you give me any advice on this

Thanks

I didn’t have for my husband and due to this the decision on where my husband lives because of a disagreement with his son on the home he is currently in is going to the court of protection so I would strongly advise doing it. Social services said at the best interests meeting that even though he doesn’t have capacity it’s his human right to decide where he lives, of course when they asked him he said in our home town, he is currently 30 minutes away so they are taking it to court

 

[Rosettastone57]

Took my Mum to the Dementia Doctor as a follow up appointment and afterward saw a dementia advice team and I was asked if I had Power of Attorney for Health and Welfare, I have power of Attorney for Financial matters, but not Health and Welfare. I was wondering if I need Health and Welfare as I am not medically trained so I assumed I would always take the medical advice
Could you give me any advice on this

Thanks

Husband and I decided to get POA for MIL for health and welfare at same time as one for finance. It has come in useful when I needed to organise community dentist appointment. It seemed as soon as I mentioned POA then the waiting list disappeared. I also tried to refer MIL to continence clinic via the GP and the practice manager phoned me to ask if I had poa. I lodged copy at surgery and now get told about district nurse visits. The care agency don't even query if we want to increase visits now. MIL is self funding which is easier anyway.

 

[jenniferpa]

The other thing I wanted to say: in the 10 years since it became an option it's become more and more common to be asked if you have one. For the first 2 or 3 years it really wasn't on anyone's radar. Now the expectation is more that if you have an lpa for finance, you will have the other one too.

 

[Beate]

I've had to show it to a number of health professionals and social workers, and it came in handy when it came to deciding where OH needed to live. I have never regretted getting it, it's a small price for peace of mind that you will be consulted.

 

[jen54]

I didnt get a h&w poa,only the financial ..
It now I a worry though so far though sw said she didn't think mum had capacity, mum has agreed to going to respite,and no one has challenged our choice of home. I do worry though. I had hoped bring next of kin when mum lost capacity would be ok

 

[SimoneLesleyOlivia42]

Am I right in thinking you can’t action a H&W POA until someone has a total loss of capacity?
We have a POA for my FIL but the medical profession have been resistant because he still has some capacity.
He is also an accomplished liar which has come as a tremendous shock. Or it’s his Alzheimer’s. I don’t know and I’m very confused and upset. Today we have had the central heating on all day. When his Carer was here she said how cold it was on his floor. I was baffled because the heating had been running all day. When she went back up to his room, the radiators were beginning to get hot. I feel like I’m going potty. He frequently interferes with the heating in his room, turning off the radiators, etc. He was complaining to the Carer that he pays us hundreds of pounds every month to keep him warm, and we don’t. . The idea that he’s capable of doing this on purpose, either to make us look bad, or to provoke a discussion - it makes me feel physically sick. We have decided to ignore it, but I’ve made a note, and plan to discuss it with the medical profession as an escalation in his behaviour.

 

[Beate]

Gov.uk says "It can only be used when you’re unable to make your own decisions."

No, he is most probably not "an accomplished liar". Dementia causes confusion and it is very common for PWDs to say things that are untrue but they BELIEVE to be true - and that's a world of difference. It is difficult to deal with, but it's not done on purpose. Get mad at dementia but not at the person.

Please read this excellent article on compassionate communication:
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/sho...ionate-Communication-with-the-Memory-Impaired

 

[Rosettastone57]

Am I right in thinking you can’t action a H&W POA until someone has a total loss of capacity?
We have a POA for my FIL but the medical profession have been resistant because he still has some capacity.
He is also an accomplished liar which has come as a tremendous shock. Or it’s his Alzheimer’s. I don’t know and I’m very confused and upset. Today we have had the central heating on all day. When his Carer was here she said how cold it was on his floor. I was baffled because the heating had been running all day. When she went back up to his room, the radiators were beginning to get hot. I feel like I’m going potty. He frequently interferes with the heating in his room, turning off the radiators, etc. He was complaining to the Carer that he pays us hundreds of pounds every month to keep him warm, and we don’t. . The idea that he’s capable of doing this on purpose, either to make us look bad, or to provoke a discussion - it makes me feel physically sick. We have decided to ignore it, but I’ve made a note, and plan to discuss it with the medical profession as an escalation in his behaviour.

My mother-in-law often fiddles with the radiators and the heating in her home she's either always saying that it's too hot or it's too cold or the radiator is turned off in the bathroom etc . And as usual it's always someone else's fault either our fault or the carers fault or in fact anyone's fault that happens to visit. We often go round to her home to find that the heating is being on and is absolutely boiling inside my husband turns it down on the stat but of course always gets turned up at a later date. I don't fret about it anymore

 

[Baker17]

I didnt get a h&w poa,only the financial ..
It now I a worry though so far though sw said she didn't think mum had capacity, mum has agreed to going to respite,and no one has challenged our choice of home. I do worry though. I had hoped bring next of kin when mum lost capacity would be ok

I didn’t get it and when the ss came to our house prior to my husband going into care it was the first thing she asked be, seemingly next of kin has no meaning nowadays, this has become very apparent as I am now living a nightmare due to a challenge from a stepson as to where my husband is currently and they appointed an advocate to represent my husband who has been deemed to not to have capacity and she is taking it to the court of protection. I would strongly advise to get it ASAP, hope this helps

 

[Selinacroft]

I didn't get either until the 11th hour and then opted for just the finance POA . I based this on the fact that Dad already had a DNAR AAND form and was self funding so would remain at home with carers and myself until the end.
Things moved on swiftly, Dad got worse , kept falling and I felt under pressure from Social Services adn GP to get him into residential care and I never really envisaged this beforehand. Sadly he passed away within a month but with hindsight I would advise getting both together as I felt that I lacked some control just when I needed it most.

 

[SimoneLesleyOlivia42]

Gov.uk says "It can only be used when you’re unable to make your own decisions
Thank you. I really appreciate you sharing that article. I’ve read it twice now. It’s a very steep learning curve, very frustrating at times. I’m very grateful to you for correcting my language .

 

[marionq]

We arranged POA for both of us through a solicitor before John was diagnosed and were strongly advised to do both finance and healthy and welfare at the same time. The costs are less than two separate visits to the solicitor and as he pointed out when you need the H&W it is almost too late to start organising and registering it. Good advice.

Since then I have used it when arranging respite and a copy is lodged with Social Work for future use if necessary. I also have a letter from John's psychiatrist to say that John does not have capacity to decide where he lives. At present he is with me but if that changes the paperwork is in place to make other arrangements.

 

[Shedrech]

hi @SimoneLesleyOlivia42
my dad too used to fiddle with the controls of things, just because they were there, and I think because of a vestigial memory of doing such things in his home over the years but because he no longer really grasped what the control was for, he was changing things at unhelpful time and in unhelpful ways - he wasn't lying when he said he hadn't done anything, he couldn't remember that he had and so if the controls had been altered, as he didn't remember doing it, he hadn't done it an by implication someone else must have
so I covered over as many of the problem areas as I could, quite literally often just with white card and sticky tape, and was careful with standby lights as he saw those and knew the whatever was still 'on' so went searching for the plug socket, control etc
can you lock the radiator onto a comfortable setting (which will mean higher than is comfortable for you, probably) or have the control completely changed
as Beate says, your granddad isn't telling lies and certainly not to deliberately deceive or be nasty, he is creating a story that explains the situation for which he has information/memory missing, it's called confabulation and can appear very cunning and spiteful as it often, sadly, involves blaming others for something that has happened

 

[SimoneLesleyOlivia42]

My mother-in-law often fiddles with the radiators and the heating in her home she's either always saying that it's too hot or it's too cold or the radiator is turned off in the bathroom etc . And as usual it's always someone else's fault either our fault or the carers fault or in fact anyone's fault that happens to visit. We often go round to her home to find that the heating is being on and is absolutely boiling inside my husband turns it down on the stat but of course always gets turned up at a later date. I don't fret about it anymore

Thank you. It helps to know we aren’t alone.