Welfare power of Attorney Scotland

[Annie55]

My husband was forced to resign by his siblings as POA for his mum about a year ago. A long and painful story.
His sister and a brother are POA'. My question is, when does welfare power of attorney come into place? His siblings have been making all the decisions. Tomorrow she is going into a nursing home at their decision because her ability to care for her personal needs have declined, no home assessment done and she still has 'capacity', no Psychiatrist or GP certificate has been given yet to say she has no longer got capacity.
I believe with more carers going in and an overnight carer she may have been able to stay at home a bit longer. I'm a retired District staff nurse with many years of home care experience but that all falls on deaf ears I'm overshadowed by a b-in-l who was a Consultant Geriatrician The Care manager has not offered any advice on more care at home. My mother in law has no idea what's happening.
My husband just doesn't know what to do and I'm worried about his health. Because of all the family dispute it has caused him so much distress he took early retirement. All he wants is what is best for his mum and her rights be recognised so he can give her all the support and care during the last stage of her illness.
Any help or words of support would be very much appreciated.
Thank you for listening

 

[Kevinl]

The problem is that in Scotland you draw up your own POA and it needs a doctor or a solicitor to sign it. Without reading this specific POA it's not possible to guess what may be in there.
It is fairly standard (in England) for a clause to be added saying the POA can't be used until after a doctor or someone specified has deemed that you lack capacity.
As in Scotland you use a solicitor do make the POA then I'd be surprised if they didn't advise you to include a similar clause.
K

 

[jenniferpa]

You say your mil had no idea what is going on. That doesn't sound as if she is any way competent. I'm not saying this move is necessarily the right option but I'm also not sure that it isn't. Is she safe and unafraid in her home? I think that's the question that needs to be asked.

 

[Pete R]

It is fairly standard (in England) for a clause to be added saying the POA can't be used until after a doctor or someone specified has deemed that you lack capacity.

Are you getting mistaken with a Finance PoA as a Health and Welfare PoA can only be used when the Donor lacks capacity (same for Scotland & England) so there is no need for such a clause?

 

[Pete R]

My question is, when does welfare power of attorney come into place?........................and she still has 'capacity',

If your MiL still has capacity then she gets to deicide where she wants to live. The PoA only comes into affect if she has lost capacity but still should be included in any decisions if possible.

"Welfare Power of Attorney (WPA) enables the Attorney to make decisions about your health and welfare but only if you are unable to do this yourself. No-one can make decisions about your welfare whilst you have the ability to do this for yourself."

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/scotland/money-matters/power-of-attorney/

 

[marionq]

We certainly didn't draw up our own version when we each took out welfare and finance in 2012.

 

[Annie55]

The problem is that in Scotland you draw up your own POA and it needs a doctor or a solicitor to sign it. Without reading this specific POA it's not possible to guess what may be in there.
It is fairly standard (in England) for a clause to be added saying the POA can't be used until after a doctor or someone specified has deemed that you lack capacity.
As in Scotland you use a solicitor do make the POA then I'd be surprised if they didn't advise you to include a similar clause.
K

In her POA welfare part of the document my mum in law has put in the clause that incapacity can only be deemed after a Psychiatrist has assessed her.

 

[Annie55]

It states in the POA document that she can only be deemed as not having capacity after an assessment from a GP or Psychiatrist, this has not happened.
My m I l is still able to get dressed, feed herself (microwave food) prompting at times for medication, have a conversation, go to social events. She does however, sleep a lot in the house and when she's visiting others which is fairly common at this stage of her illness. She did have a fall this week and unable to get back up but managed to call 999. She is in continent of urine.
Just feel more could be put in place in the home as all options I believe have not been exhausted.
The 2 siblings with POA have been calling the shots for months with regards to health and welfare.
The Social care manager has gone behind my husband and myself a disclosed personal details of a meeting with us with my m I l present saying she had to tell the POA everything from our meeting. She kept saying there are 'grey areas' with regard to welfare POA and she must report back!

 

[Annie55]

Are you getting mistaken with a Finance PoA as a Health and Welfare PoA can only be used when the Donor lacks capacity (same for Scotland & England) so there is no need for such a clause?

No not mistaken

 

[Annie55]

You say your mil had no idea what is going on. That doesn't sound as if she is any way competent. I'm not saying this move is necessarily the right option but I'm also not sure that it isn't. Is she safe and unafraid in her home? I think that's the question that needs to be asked.

Sorry I mean she doesn't know what's going about nursing homes etc. She has not been asked how she feels about it all and we are constantly told not to discuss anything with her!

 

[Amelie5a]

Annie,

have you contacted the Mental Welfare Commission? I think it can offer advice in situations such as this. It's based in Edinburgh and has staff who cover all the regions in Scotland.

This link will give you much more info

http://www.mwcscot.org.uk/contact-us/

 

[Shedrech]

hi @Annie55
I wonder whether an advocacy service might help you

Scottish Independent Advocacy Alliance 0131 556 6443
I got this number from the AgeUK Scotland website factsheet
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/documents/...scotland/age useful numbers mk3.pdf?dtrk=true
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/scotland/

and might it help to talk with someone on the AS Helpline?
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/...048.612758088.1512139873-213745934.1462100281

 

[Annie55]

hi @Annie55
I wonder whether an advocacy service might help you

Scottish Independent Advocacy Alliance 0131 556 6443
I got this number from the AgeUK Scotland website factsheet
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/documents/en-gb-sc/factsheets - scotland/age useful numbers mk3.pdf?dtrk=true
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/scotland/

and might it help to talk with someone on the AS Helpline?
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/info/...048.612758088.1512139873-213745934.1462100281

Annie,

have you contacted the Mental Welfare Commission? I think it can offer advice in situations such as this. It's based in Edinburgh and has staff who cover all the regions in Scotland.

This link will give you much more info

http://www.mwcscot.org.uk/contact-us/

Thank you,
I think it's time to walk away from his siblings as it's all just too painful and making us ill. We will love and do all we can for my m I l just as we always have.
The last straw was this morning when my husband phoned his mums GP just ask the question, has a certificate for incapacity been issued and the answer was no. He told both doctor and receptionist his name.
Later in the morning the GP mistakingly phoned his other brother who is now aggressively saying my husband impersonated him to get information. I was right beside my husband when he phoned and he would never dream of doing anything like that.
We are seeing someone to help and she has kindly organised counselling for my husband.
So sorry you are having to listen to all this but it's just all too much for us now.
You don't need to reply I just needed to write my feelings down. : )

 

[Shedrech]

so sorry, Annie55
I know some of family disputes - and I too decided that I have to look after myself - so as long as my dad is cared for, I accept that; though in my case there is no doubt about dad being fine

if it is at all possible, drop into conversation/correspondence that slander is still a legal issue and the GP would well know that he was speaking to your husband not his brother - though people who are so quick to make such accusations are unlikely to be too bothered about the facts

I'm glad you have support and your husband will have someone to talk this over with
and TP is here for you too

 

[Annie55]

so sorry, Annie55
I know some of family disputes - and I too decided that I have to look after myself - so as long as my dad is cared for, I accept that; though in my case there is no doubt about dad being fine

if it is at all possible, drop into conversation/correspondence that slander is still a legal issue and the GP would well know that he was speaking to your husband not his brother - though people who are so quick to make such accusations are unlikely to be too bothered about the facts

I'm glad you have support and your husband will have someone to talk this over with
and TP is here for you too

Thank you so much for your reply. Cried a lot but feeling better this evening.

 

[Annie55]

Thank you all for your supportive answers, really appreciate them.