Problems with registrar - is this common?

[Linzini]

My mother died two weeks ago, and the deputy Registrar made me feel like a criminal when I went to register her death. The doctor had seen Mum 4 times in the 2 weeks preceding her death, and she was in a care home. I wondered whether anyone else has had this experience and whether to complain. In essence, the Registrar didn't like the fact that "dementia" was given as the cause of death (Mum was 75).

She asked me very abruptly what had happened before she died, and I explained that Mum had stopped wanting to eat and drink a few months back, around the time of a fall for which she was seen (and discharged) by A&E in one hospital, but then due to lack of drinking had kidney failure and ended up in another hospital for three weeks with various problems. I was then put through a load of questions, before being told "well this is raising red flags" and then after going out to consult someone she said quite aggressively "you're not going to like this at all but I am going to refer the death to the Coroner". Bedside manner of a house brick in the face, frankly. And she showed me out through an incoming wedding party whilst I was visibly distressed.

The Coroner's office were really kind when I rang them the next working day, and had it all sorted within 3 hours. Has anyone else had this problem with registering a death when cause is given as dementia? Is it a common issue? I am still really upset by Mum's death and I am not sure what to do about this, but I would hate anyone else to go through it.

 

[Shedrech]

sad news Linzini
my condolences on the loss of your mother
I am so sorry that you were treated that way by the registrar - some thoughts should be kept in the head and not spoken - there were ways to let you know what the registrar was going to do, that wasn't one of the sympathetic ones
I'm glad the coroner was kind and professional and efficient - what a contrast
might you write to the chief registrar and describe how you were treated so that the matter can be taken up with the registrar you had to deal with - sounds as though some training in manners is needed - writing to them may also help you to settle the matter; you don't need that in your head right now
best wishes

 

[Beate]

Gov.uk says:

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death/when-a-death-is-reported-to-a-coroner

3. When a death is reported to a coroner
A doctor may report the death to a coroner if the:

• cause of death is unknown
• death was violent or unnatural
• death was sudden and unexplained
• person who died was not visited by a medical practitioner during their final illness
• medical certificate isn’t available
• person who died wasn’t seen by the doctor who signed the medical certificate within 14 days before death or after they died
• death occurred during an operation or before the person came out of anaesthetic
• medical certificate suggests the death may have been caused by an industrial disease or industrial poisoning

The coroner may decide that the cause of death is clear. In this case:

1. The doctor signs a medical certificate.
   
   
2. You take the medical certificate to the registrar.
   
   
3. The coroner issues a certificate to the registrar stating a post-mortem isn’t needed.
   
   However, this link says
   http://www.manchester.gov.uk/info/626/coroners/5532/when_death_occurs/2

There are several other types of death that must always be reported:

• All deaths of children and young people under 18, even if due to natural causes. This is for safeguarding purposes.
• Deaths within 24 hours of admission to hospital
• Deaths that may be linked to medical treatment, surgery or anaesthetic
• Deaths that may be linked to an accident, however long ago it happened
• Deaths that may be linked to drugs or medications, whether prescribed or illicit
• If there is a possibility that the person took their own life
• If there are any suspicious circumstances or history of violence
• Deaths that may be linked to the person's occupation, for example if they have been exposed to asbestos
• All deaths of people who are in custody or detained under the Mental Health Act, even if due to natural causes, including people living in care homes who are subject to Deprivation of Liberties Safeguarding
• Some unusual illnesses including hepatitis and tuberculosis.

So if she died in a care home where she would have been under a DOLS, that might have triggered it. Nevertheless, I would complain about the bedside manner of this registrar, who was dealing with you when you were already distressed. A little tact and explanation goes a long way!

My OH was in a nursing home but died in hospital so I guess that's why it was more straightforward.

 

[nitram]

I asked the doctor if LBD could be mentioned on the death certificate as this may help with future research funding, the certificate simply said 'cause of death, Lewy Body Dementia' , no problem with registrar.

The Manchester.gov.uk site needs updating.
Since 03/04/17 the death of a person subject to a DOLs does not in itself trigger referral to the Coroner .
https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-con...f-liberty-safeguards-3-april-2017-onwards.pdf

 

[mrjelly]

My Dad's death three years ago was also referred to the coroner as his GP hadn't seen him during the previous two weeks, which I also thought was unnecessary as he had been expected to die for some time and it wasn't a surprise to anybody. There was also some reluctance to put dementia as the main cause of death and I think it ended up being old age with dementia. I don't see why the bureaucrats cause these difficulties when, according to the Office for National Statistics, dementia and Alzheimer's disease is listed as a leading cause of death in their annual report and about 63,000 people who died in 2016 in England and Wales had this as their cause of death.

 

[mrjelly]

Duplicate post, sorry.

 

[Pete R]

So if she died in a care home where she would have been under a DOLS, that might have triggered it.

You highlighted the change in a previous post #43
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/the-effects-of-a-dols-order-on-me.95183/page-3

 

[mrjelly]

The attached files show the results of a query that I ran on the ONS database for dementia as a cause of death. It even has its own internationally recognised coding as a leading cause of death, LC18!.

 

[Beate]

Well, looks like I was smarter in April than I am right now!

P.S. OH's death certificate says

1. Lobar pneumonia
2. Alzheimer's disease, Frontotemporal dementia

Didn't have any problems regarding that, only with the fact that I wasn't married to him or present at his death and was therefore only allowed to register his death because I was arranging the funeral. In the 21st century this just isn't ok anymore.