Attendance Allowance - received a fine!

SnowWhite

Registered User
Nov 18, 2016
699
0
just a warning to people to make sure you inform AA if your family member goes into hospital. It was an awful time as Mum had a bad fall and was very ill and the hospital was a long way, I was stressed etc. She ended up being under NHS care for 10 weeks.

Anyway, I finally remembered to notify them a few weeks later so they had overpaid Mum £83.10. I then received a letter asking me why I had not notified them immediately and I apologised and gave the reasons Above. I thought that was an end to it but today I received a letter saying I had to pay back the £83.10 plus pay a civil penalty amount of £50.

They include details of how to appeal but I am so worn out at the moment that I honestly don't know if I can be bothered. It probably is my fault but with all that was going on it did slip my mind but I did ring and tell them albeit a bit late.

It's a pity they're not so quick off the mark chasing these benefit fraudsters who receive tens of thousands of pounds in fraudulent Claims.
 

Shedrech

Registered User
Dec 15, 2012
12,649
0
UK
well yes - always wise to follow the rules
I had the 'opposite' reaction - I called about my Carer's Allowance as soon as I had a date for dad moving in to his care home so that they wouldn't overpay me and I needn't worry about having to make a refund - the operator gathered that I'd not taken any respite/holiday and that dad actually had a month's assessment period in the home before his residency was permanent - so they arranged that my allowance would only end at the end of that period - couldn't have been more helpful
 

Selinacroft

Registered User
Oct 10, 2015
936
0
Sounds as though you were made an example of so to speak. It is so hard when someone goes into hospital, usualy phoning the DWP on day one is not necessarily foremost on your mind! As things go along, the hospital say things like "doing well" "eating well" Will be out next week" "probably out when the drs have seen him" etc and then you find yourself still visiting 5 weeks later getting the same murmerings. Very unreasonable of DWP when you did actualy volunteer the info albeit a week or two late.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
Personally I'd appeal if you simply notified them a week late or similar. As a matter of interest, we're you assessed the penalty or was your mother?
 

SnowWhite

Registered User
Nov 18, 2016
699
0
Personally I'd appeal if you simply notified them a week late or similar. As a matter of interest, we're you assessed the penalty or was your mother?

The letter says "although you are acting for the above named account holder, this letter is written as if it were addressed to them."
 

SnowWhite

Registered User
Nov 18, 2016
699
0
well yes - always wise to follow the rules
I had the 'opposite' reaction - I called about my Carer's Allowance as soon as I had a date for dad moving in to his care home so that they wouldn't overpay me and I needn't worry about having to make a refund - the operator gathered that I'd not taken any respite/holiday and that dad actually had a month's assessment period in the home before his residency was permanent - so they arranged that my allowance would only end at the end of that period - couldn't have been more helpful

In all my dealings with officials, everyone has been really helpful. Both Mum and I are as honest as anyone can be but with all the stress involved it just slipped my mind. Mum lay outside on the concrete for 3 hours waiting for an ambulance, she was so ill she couldn't speak for a week, she had massive bruising, scratches, cuts etc and the hospital was a 2 hour round trip every day. She was screaming in pain for days and the hospital couldn't control her pain. It was just awful.

When things calmed down a bit I was going through her paperwork and realised I should have informed them. I tried a few times and was queuing for ages and then a recording told me I could use their website but you can't actually report anything like this so back to the phones I went and eventually got Someone. The woman on the phone was really polite and I felt I had done what I needed to. I still think a £50 fine is very steep for such a small amount.
 

jenniferpa

Registered User
Jun 27, 2006
39,442
0
Honestly I suspect that this sort of thing is not down to a human: a computer system knows when the hospitalisation was reported and when the benefit should have been terminated and on that basis it spits out a letter. Which is why you should appeal. So that a human gets eyes on it.
 

notsogooddtr

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
1,283
0
As a 'pen pushing jobsworth'I would suggest there have to be rules.You have the right of appeal,if you really feel you have been treated unjustly you should use it.
 

Louise7

Volunteer Host
Mar 25, 2016
4,638
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For info, here is some info about how a £50 civil penalty is applied:

  • A decision maker should only apply a penalty when they are satisfied that a person has ‘negligently’ given incorrect information or failed to disclose information that they are aware of. The guidance defines 'acting negligently' as “acting carelessly, not paying sufficient attention to the task in hand, or disregarding the importance of what is required to be done".

  • The person must have failed to take ‘reasonable steps’ to correct the error. The guidance advises that this means “sensible or practicable actions or interventions to correct the error”. What is considered to be reasonable will depend a great deal on the specific circumstances of each case. It will be important to make sure that the decision maker is aware of all the relevant factors which may have resulted in an incorrect statement being made. Also, that they know of any reasons why that person may not have been aware it was incorrect or been able to obtain any more up-to-date information.

  • A penalty should not be applied if the person has a ‘reasonable excuse’ for their failure to provide the correct information or for providing it late. The guidance gives the example of a person who has not been able to obtain up-to-date confirmation of the amount of their occupational pension from their pension provider.

So the decision will have been made based on the reasons you provided for the delay. It's not clear from your posts whether you provided them with full details about the situation or not, as that might have made a difference with regards to whether the delay in reporting was considered a 'reasonable excuse' or not. Worth an appeal if you provided full details of the situation and think that the decision maker has not taken these fully into account.

I used to work for DWP several years ago and from my experience the people there are definitely not just 'pen pushing jobsworths' who don't understand the struggles people go through. However they do need to know all of the relevant facts/information as decisions can only be made based on what they have been provided with. I was in a similar position, with my Mum's AA being overpaid by a week, but when I advised them that my sister was dying at the same time my Mum went into hospital they were very understanding and so far I haven't received a penalty notice.
 
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love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,962
0
Kent
As with every profession some will be helpful and empathetic some not so. That does sound harsh decision...I would appeal so as others have said the appopriateness of the fine is considered by humans
 

SnowWhite

Registered User
Nov 18, 2016
699
0
As I said earlier, as soon as I had a minute I rang and told them Mum was in hospital and gave them the date she was admitted. The woman on the phone was fine. I then received a form asking me why I had not informed them immediately and I replied immediately apologising and listing the reasons I gave on here. I also provided my phone number and told them I would Be pleased to provide more details if they wanted to ring me.

IT IS my fault, I did apologise and it's only £80ish Mum has been overpaid. I don't need any more stress at the moment so I will just pay the penalty and file it away.

I was more concerned about reminding others on here that you must do this straight away, so I guess I've done that job OK.
 

SnowWhite

Registered User
Nov 18, 2016
699
0
Ha ha can anybody do their job right!!! Just rang debt recovery at DWP to pay full amount on card as I don't need the stress!

Was told I only owe £83.10 so I explained the letter said I have a penalty charge of £50 on top and he says it doesn't show on his screen so he can't take it. He said it should show up by now if I've had a letter.

I paid the £83.10 and told him to put a note on screen to say I had offered to pay the £50 as well but there was no note of it on his screen.

Why is nothing in my life straightforward?
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,019
0
Bury
Was told I only owe £83.10 so I explained the letter said I have a penalty charge of £50 on top and he says it doesn't show on his screen so he can't take it. He said it should show up by now if I've had a letter.

In
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/winter-fuel-allowance.105535/#post-1469149
I said
In my experience the various DWP departments don't always share info - confidentiality?

For departments read sub departments, the 'overpaid' and 'penalty charge' departments appear not be on 'speaking terms'

Forget about it for now, if you are really lucky you might get a refund of the £50 you should not have paid!!