Help please, if you can offer advice?

[Elle3]

Hi, Sorry this is going to be rather long!

My dad is 80 and he has Advanced Dementia and still lives alone in his own house and I live about 20 minutes drive away from him. The problem is that he is quite obsessed with money. I have POA which I have registered at his bank and we have come to an arrangement that my dad can withdraw money still from the bank but only at £20 a time. He has no bank card or cheque book, they just know him very well in the bank and are very friendly with him, the bank is about a 30 minute walk from his house.

Now the problem is, that my dad does not associate the money in the bank which he is withdrawing as being his money. The connections he has made in his brain have made him believe that they are just giving him the money, like for a job. I have attempted to explain to him that the money he keeps taking out is his own money and not the banks, that's why they are happy to give it to him. But he just does not understand this or wants to understand it, he just thinks they are being nice and giving him free money just for turning up.

I have spoken to the Bank Manager about this and I asked him if they could occasionally refuse to give my dad some money. He was reluctant to do this just in case dad causes a fuss in the bank and they end up with a big queue. However, they have told me they have since tried refusing him money, but then dad just turned up a few hours later so they gave him some then.

This wouldn't be so bad, as he is only withdrawing up to a max of £100 per week. (Even though it does mount up over a period of time and he likes to carry it all in his wallet, until eventually I persuade him to take some out and I hide it in his house, because he can't be trusted to remember where he hid it or to keep it hidden and not back in his wallet). However, dad doesn't understand that the bank does not open until 9.30am and it doesn't open at weekends. So very often he can be stood outside the bank from 7.30am waiting for them to open and the same at weekends, I have put a huge sign on his door with the bank opening times on it, but he takes no notice of it. Also, if he falls asleep in the day and re-sets his clock he will actually go out in the evening and wait outside the bank for it to open, there is no logic about it being dark and rain and wind won't stop him if he thinks he can get free money! I have lost count of the number of times I have had phone calls from very kind people saying they are with my dad and he is stood outside the bank and won't leave even if they tell him it will not be opening and for some reason Friday and Saturday nights are his favourite nights for doing this, this has ruined many weekends for us and has puts paid to us being able to have any alcohol until we can be certain he's not going out. Usually we (my husband and I) have to drive down to the bank and pick him up and then he just complains about the bank being bad people and not being there for him.

You know how bad the weather was on Saturday night, with storm Brian? Even though dad had spent most of the day with us and he could see how bad the weather was and we continually told him it was Saturday and the bank would be closed. I discovered as I was going to bed that he'd actually gone out around 9.30pm for just over a hour, a good assumption would be to the bank. If you are wondering how I know this, I have the 'just checking' service so I can monitor his movements around his home and I can see when he goes out and when he comes back in. I can't ask him about this the next day as he usually doesn't remember going and we can never have a sensible conversation.

So, my question is, what would you do if this was your dad? How would you stop him going to the bank? I have considered instructing the bank not to give him any money anymore, but I think this may cause more problems than solve them. We are finding this so frustrating and I'm worried now with the weather getting worse and the darker mornings and nights that he could end up getting ill or be vulnerable to theft. Do we just let it carry on?

Thanks for reading and sorry it was so long.

Elle x

 

[Rosettastone57]

Hi, Sorry this is going to be rather long!

My dad is 80 and he has Advanced Dementia and still lives alone in his own house and I live about 20 minutes drive away from him. The problem is that he is quite obsessed with money. I have POA which I have registered at his bank and we have come to an arrangement that my dad can withdraw money still from the bank but only at £20 a time. He has no bank card or cheque book, they just know him very well in the bank and are very friendly with him, the bank is about a 30 minute walk from his house.

Now the problem is, that my dad does not associate the money in the bank which he is withdrawing as being his money. The connections he has made in his brain have made him believe that they are just giving him the money, like for a job. I have attempted to explain to him that the money he keeps taking out is his own money and not the banks, that's why they are happy to give it to him. But he just does not understand this or wants to understand it, he just thinks they are being nice and giving him free money just for turning up.

I have spoken to the Bank Manager about this and I asked him if they could occasionally refuse to give my dad some money. He was reluctant to do this just in case dad causes a fuss in the bank and they end up with a big queue. However, they have told me they have since tried refusing him money, but then dad just turned up a few hours later so they gave him some then.

This wouldn't be so bad, as he is only withdrawing up to a max of £100 per week. (Even though it does mount up over a period of time and he likes to carry it all in his wallet, until eventually I persuade him to take some out and I hide it in his house, because he can't be trusted to remember where he hid it or to keep it hidden and not back in his wallet). However, dad doesn't understand that the bank does not open until 9.30am and it doesn't open at weekends. So very often he can be stood outside the bank from 7.30am waiting for them to open and the same at weekends, I have put a huge sign on his door with the bank opening times on it, but he takes no notice of it. Also, if he falls asleep in the day and re-sets his clock he will actually go out in the evening and wait outside the bank for it to open, there is no logic about it being dark and rain and wind won't stop him if he thinks he can get free money! I have lost count of the number of times I have had phone calls from very kind people saying they are with my dad and he is stood outside the bank and won't leave even if they tell him it will not be opening and for some reason Friday and Saturday nights are his favourite nights for doing this, this has ruined many weekends for us and has puts paid to us being able to have any alcohol until we can be certain he's not going out. Usually we (my husband and I) have to drive down to the bank and pick him up and then he just complains about the bank being bad people and not being there for him.

You know how bad the weather was on Saturday night, with storm Brian? Even though dad had spent most of the day with us and he could see how bad the weather was and we continually told him it was Saturday and the bank would be closed. I discovered as I was going to bed that he'd actually gone out around 9.30pm for just over a hour, a good assumption would be to the bank. If you are wondering how I know this, I have the 'just checking' service so I can monitor his movements around his home and I can see when he goes out and when he comes back in. I can't ask him about this the next day as he usually doesn't remember going and we can never have a sensible conversation.

So, my question is, what would you do if this was your dad? How would you stop him going to the bank? I have considered instructing the bank not to give him any money anymore, but I think this may cause more problems than solve them. We are finding this so frustrating and I'm worried now with the weather getting worse and the darker mornings and nights that he could end up getting ill or be vulnerable to theft. Do we just let it carry on?

Thanks for reading and sorry it was so



Elle x

Hi I am struck by the fact I'm reading your post that your father is clearly a very vulnerable adult who is at risk of harm to himself. You don't say whether there is any other provision laid on for his care you say he lives on his own what else is in place to make sure he is safe?

I am sure other posters will be along soon to give you far better advice about wandering than I can but it seems to me that something drastic has to happen to save you and your family getting drawn into this long detailed and exhausting situation.

 

[Beate]

I think you need more distraction for your Dad. To break the cycle he needs to have other things occupying his mind. Could you get him to a Day Centre during the day and have some befrienders at the weekend? And they should not take him to the bank either! He basically needs to forget it's there. It might take a while so maybe you could speak to the bank staff about a different approach? Most financial institutions now pride themselves of being dementia aware, so maybe you could agree an official line with them, something like "You've already been paid today, so we can't pay you again. Please come back next week." They will have to say that over and over of course and I can't guarantee it will work but it's worth a try.

Edit: I'm posting Rosettastone57's reply here because she hid in your post when replying to it:
"Hi I'm sure others will be along very soon to give you better advice that I can on this sort of wandering. However on reading your post I am struck by the fact that your father is clearly a very vulnerable adult at risk and what is there in place to make sure he is safe on a long-term basis. You say he is on his own what other provisions are there during the day does he have care package? I am also struck that it always seems to be yourself who is dealing with the chaos and aftermath of this and it is going to take a toll on you and your family. I can't provider magic solution here and hopefully other posters will be going to give you better pointers."

 

[Elle3]

Hi I am struck by the fact I'm reading your post that your father is clearly a very vulnerable adult who is at risk of harm to himself. You don't say whether there is any other provision laid on for his care you say he lives on his own what else is in place to make sure he is safe?

I am sure other posters will be along soon to give you far better advice about wandering than I can but it seems to me that something drastic has to happen to save you and your family getting drawn into this long detailed and exhausting situation.

Hi Rosettastone57 Thanks for your reply. Yes I agree he is vulnerable but he refuses all help other than from me and I can only do so much and he only allows me to do so much as more often than not I arrange to visit him and he just goes out.

Social Services have been involved on and off, but can only offer carers which are of no use to my dad as he hates strangers. We have enough issues with him thinking there are people in his home anyway which is his explanation for things being moved or going missing and as I said I have enough difficulty trying to pin him down so I can visit, so carers who would be on a fixed and inflexible arrangement would be of no use. My dad also doesn't want to go to any day care facilities as he's very antisocial. The only solution would be to put him in a home. But this would be against his wishes and Social Services do not want to step in yet and force him.

It is a difficult situation.

 

[Rosettastone57]

Hi Rosettastone57 Thanks for your reply. Yes I agree he is vulnerable but he refuses all help other than from me and I can only do so much and he only allows me to do so much as more often than not I arrange to visit him and he just goes out.

Social Services have been involved on and off, but can only offer carers which are of no use to my dad as he hates strangers. We have enough issues with him thinking there are people in his home anyway which is his explanation for things being moved or going missing and as I said I have enough difficulty trying to pin him down so I can visit, so carers who would be on a fixed and inflexible arrangement would be of no use. My dad also doesn't want to go to any day care facilities as he's very antisocial. The only solution would be to put him in a home. But this would be against his wishes and Social Services do not want to step in yet and force him.

It is a difficult situation.

Oh dear I think it's time to take control this isn't about what your father wants it's what he needs. As other posters have said he needs distraction . He needs routine and distraction away from the situation whether it's the bank or anything else and you need a complete break. It's unrealistic to expect you to do everything for him and it takes a toll on both yourself and your family and you'll eventually have carers breakdown.

My mantra with my mother-in-law who was in a similar situation to your dad she was a controlling unpleasant individual before her diagnosis to save myself and my family a lot of heartache we made the decision to employ carers whether my mother-in-law likes it or not. That was two years ago and we haven't regretted that decision . 2 years on she now accepts at least partially the carer agency although I agree she's self funding which makes it slightly easier to organise. Your father is only going to get worse time to step up to the plate and put things in place now.

This may sound harsh but to be blunt it's the only way forward

 

[Oh Knickers]

Elle,

With regards to your statement about your dad a care home. Sometimes it is not what the PWD (Person with Dementia) wants but what they need. Your dad is, sadly, sounding very vulnerable. He has lost all sense of time and day let alone reality around money.

You have done a fantastic job with regards to the bank and limiting the money he is being given. In addition, you are keeping it safe for him by hiding it away for him. However, there comes a point where your dad's safety comes first. You may not be there yet, but it will come.

Beate has a point, that your dad needs more to keep him occupied. Would your dad accept being a 'helper' in a club? To link to his being a 'worker' for the bank? There have been a number of posts here where a parent has only accepted going to clubs as they are there to help, not to be one of the 'old' people.

Longer term, by going into a home he may also feel a lot safer as there should be a continuous level of some form of activity.

You will be the best judge of the situation and the time to move on.

Best of luck.

 

[LadyA]

It certainly is. And unfortunately, sometimes, we have to wait for a crisis to happen before a pwd will get the support and help they need. I'm afraid I can't think of any solutions, but it does sound like your dad is very vulnerable. No chance of introducing a "new system" whereby his money "doesn't have to be collected any more, but is sent to his home"? I know that would mean someone having to be responsible for delivering it, though.

 

[Elle3]

Elle,

With regards to your statement about your dad a care home. Sometimes it is not what the PWD (Person with Dementia) wants but what they need. Your dad is, sadly, sounding very vulnerable. He has lost all sense of time and day let alone reality around money.

You have done a fantastic job with regards to the bank and limiting the money he is being given. In addition, you are keeping it safe for him by hiding it away for him. However, there comes a point where your dad's safety comes first. You may not be there yet, but it will come.

Beate has a point, that your dad needs more to keep him occupied. Would your dad accept being a 'helper' in a club? To link to his being a 'worker' for the bank? There have been a number of posts here where a parent has only accepted going to clubs as they are there to help, not to be one of the 'old' people.

Longer term, by going into a home he may also feel a lot safer as there should be a continuous level of some form of activity.

You will be the best judge of the situation and the time to move on.

Best of luck.

Hi Oh Knickers. I was under the impression that you can not forcibly put someone in a care home against their wishes unless Social Services stepped in, he would also be self funding until his money ran out. I only have POA for his finances, not his health and welfare so it wouldn't be my decision.

My dad is very stubborn and anti-social and much prefers his own company. I know this probably doesn't sound very nice, but I don't much like him we've never had much in common and have never been that close and I find it difficult to communicate with him and the Dementia has made this a lot harder. He also can get very aggressive, not with me fortunately but he can be towards my husband and other people. He also won't accept any help whatsoever. I tried to get a lady to do a bit of gardening for him in the summer as I broke my wrist and couldn't keep up with things, I even told him she was a friend of mine and would do it for free. But the aggression and his total refusal to allow anyone to touch his home or garden was awful and to prove a point he actually managed to do the garden himself even though he seemed to think some weeds were OK. That's what he does, when I bring up an issue that needs sorting around his home and tell him I will sort it, he will just go and try to do it himself to again prove the point that he can do it himself (he was a builder). If this means climbing a ladder onto his roof, he will do it!!!

We have had the problem with his confusion of day and night for well over a year now and he has survived OK. Originally it was much worse as he was travelling much further afield on the train and then not being able to get back and yes a few times the Police have been called and we've had to get up in the middle of the night to rescue him, but what I'm saying is these instances probably have only happened about 15 times and so far the local instances have been a lot easier to cope with. My dad is actually capable of finding his way home and going places OK, it's only when he does this in the evening and someone tries to talk to him that they realise there is a problem as the dementia has affected his communication skills quite badly. He does not know the right words and very rarely answers a question.

Being a helper in a club would be a great idea, but as I said dad is antisocial and if women were involved even more so. When my mum his wife died nearly 9 years ago, he had a friend he would go walking with, but when this friend offered to bring his wife and her friend, who my dad knew as it was his second cousin, my dad totally refused and didn't speak to that friend for a while. I struggle to get my dad to do anything, he won't go near the Dr's, even if I am popping in to order his prescription for iron tablets, he seems to have this sick sense if you are trying to force something on him or put him in a situation he is not comfortable with. I bring him to my house every Saturday for lunch, we never have anyone else there as my dad will refuse for weeks after to come again as he can selectively remember that someone else was there, it might only be someone popping briefly. We do ignore him when he does this but it is a battle until he eventually settles down again. My dad also has no other interests and never has had apart from DIY, which is now too dangerous for him to do. He's never been one for puzzles, tv, crafts etc or anything indoors, he's an outdoors person and the only thing he loves is walking.

I also have the added issue that it is difficult to make any arrangements as I cannot be certain he will be there. To tell him before hand he forgets and to tell him on the day he will deliberately go out to avoid it unless I literally tell him that someone is coming to see him when they actually arrive, I had to do this when getting him diagnosed as it was the only way he would see anyone.

Sorry, I sound like I am being very negative and just making excuses for him, but as I said dad is very difficult and stubborn and very much a loaner and trying to break the habit of him going to the bank is proving difficult. I spent well over a year trying to break his habit of going on a train every day and only when the British Transport Police got involved and I took his travel pass away did I succeed. However, he still remembers the days he went on the train with his friend and they paid him to do a job (no they didn't, but this is also a join the dots connection he's made and his reason he doesn't go anymore is because they sacked him and took his travel pass away!). He has tried since to go on the train, but I have to keep reminding him he's been sacked. I'm trying to do the same with the bank, but not very successfully at the moment as it's very local to him and somewhere he likes to walk to.

 

[Elle3]

It certainly is. And unfortunately, sometimes, we have to wait for a crisis to happen before a pwd will get the support and help they need. I'm afraid I can't think of any solutions, but it does sound like your dad is very vulnerable. No chance of introducing a "new system" whereby his money "doesn't have to be collected any more, but is sent to his home"? I know that would mean someone having to be responsible for delivering it, though.

Hi LadyA, He doesn't actually need the money, as he has more than enough as he spends very little and I do most of his food shopping. But the idea of free money to him is quite an incentive and he keeps telling me he just enjoys the walk. So even if I told him the bank is always closed, he would still go there as part of his walk and if he sees the doors open, he's straight in.

Every time something happens and the Police get involved I think is this the time, is this the crisis but I get the feeling Social Services are reluctant to do anything as most of the time he's OK and these instances when he goes out at night luckily are not on a regular basis. He's been assessed by them twice and all they can offer is carers, or day care and they agree neither would be suitable for my dad. We also tried Care Line with door contacts, but this caused more problems than they solved, so it lasted all of 2 weeks before my dad switched it off and ripped it out. The only thing that does seem to work is 'Just checking' which my dad is totally unaware of, but it allows me to monitor his movements around his home, so I can see when he goes out and comes back and when he goes to bed and gets up etc. So if I see he has gone out after a certain period of time he hasn't returned then I know we have to go and look for him. But usually someone has stepped in first or he has returned just as we are driving off our path.

 

[Bod]

As you have had the Police (inc Transport Police)involved, make sure you get an incident number, each time.
This will build a picture of his behaviour, which Social services cannot ignore.
There will come a time when despite his wishes, a safe place will be found.
The Bank situation will have to be sorted, as the bank staff are certainly breaking all-sorts of rules.
Good luck, it's going to be rough, but (big but), it's in his own best interests.

Bod

 

[Elle3]

I think you need more distraction for your Dad. To break the cycle he needs to have other things occupying his mind. Could you get him to a Day Centre during the day and have some befrienders at the weekend? And they should not take him to the bank either! He basically needs to forget it's there. It might take a while so maybe you could speak to the bank staff about a different approach? Most financial institutions now pride themselves of being dementia aware, so maybe you could agree an official line with them, something like "You've already been paid today, so we can't pay you again. Please come back next week." They will have to say that over and over of course and I can't guarantee it will work but it's worth a try.

Edit: I'm posting Rosettastone57's reply here because she hid in your post when replying to it:
"Hi I'm sure others will be along very soon to give you better advice that I can on this sort of wandering. However on reading your post I am struck by the fact that your father is clearly a very vulnerable adult at risk and what is there in place to make sure he is safe on a long-term basis. You say he is on his own what other provisions are there during the day does he have care package? I am also struck that it always seems to be yourself who is dealing with the chaos and aftermath of this and it is going to take a toll on you and your family. I can't provider magic solution here and hopefully other posters will be going to give you better pointers."

Hi Beate, If only I could avoid him going anywhere near the bank, but unfortunately it's on a one way street in the heart of the town where he lives. So it cannot be avoided and if we have to go into town, for lunch, for shopping, for the Dr's we have to drive past the bank and if the bank is open, dad would literally jump out of my car if he could to get in there. The pull of free money is far to great.

Like I said I have spoken to the bank and they are very kind to my dad, it's all first name terms, how are you etc etc. My dad doesn't even have to ask for money, he just stands there and they just sort it out for him, all he does is sign for it, which he is still capable of doing. I think they are just more worried about the fact if they keep telling him he can't have any, he just comes back and he is more likely to return in the evening when they are closed if they don't give him any. Which is what he did do once. They are also aware of him standing outside the bank outside of their opening hours as they see him on the CCTV and they have tried telling him, but he pays no attention.

 

[Moggymad]

Hi @Elle3 there are traits with your dad I can identify with. Although my dad didn't have dementia, he was very possessive about people & some other things. Like you say he used to have a friend he went about with but didn't want to share the time with anyone else. Your dad's obsession with money also is familiar. My dad once retraced his steps over about 5 miles because he 'lost' a five pound note somewhere on his journey! The going to the bank is like an addiction with the 'reward' being the money he is given. My dads addiction was gambling on horses. He would walk miles visiting every bookies in town. He did get banned by some but it didn't stop him going back. He was very antisocial at times, would fall out with anyone who parked outside his house even though he didn't have a car. He wanted the space ready for his visitors, namely me or my sister. Went as far as to put glass on the road outside! My dad was a self employed builder/ decorator yet our house was in a dreadful state. Wouldn't let anyone else do anything. All this got worse after mum left, the gambling obsession took over even more. At times I didn't like my dad but loved him nonetheless. Could see his vulnerabilities & to some extent why he was the way he was. Anyway my point to all this is to say I understand how very difficult this is for you & you are being a fantastic daughter doing what you do. No answers I'm afraid. Just have to do your best to deal with things. The bank is his best friend, it gives him comfort to go there.Time will change the situation, let the authorities do what they can once they can get a foothold in the door. So sorry I can't offer any solutions. Best wishes.

 

[canary]

This is a very difficult situation and no-one wants to upset anyone, but I really dont think this can continue; he is a very vulnerable person.

I think it might be time to register the POA with the bank and take over his finances so that he cannot withdraw any. He may kick off and the police may have to be called, but it might be the sort of crisis that is needed (even if not what anyone wants)

 

[Risa]

This is a tough one I don't know what the possibility is of trying to get a male befriender for your dad? Just thought if you can get one, maybe introduce him as a friend who is new to your dad's area and ask your dad to take him around the local area to show where things are/interesting places to go walking?

 

[Elle3]

Hi @Elle3 there are traits with your dad I can identify with. Although my dad didn't have dementia, he was very possessive about people & some other things. Like you say he used to have a friend he went about with but didn't want to share the time with anyone else. Your dad's obsession with money also is familiar. My dad once retraced his steps over about 5 miles because he 'lost' a five pound note somewhere on his journey! The going to the bank is like an addiction with the 'reward' being the money he is given. My dads addiction was gambling on horses. He would walk miles visiting every bookies in town. He did get banned by some but it didn't stop him going back. He was very antisocial at times, would fall out with anyone who parked outside his house even though he didn't have a car. He wanted the space ready for his visitors, namely me or my sister. Went as far as to put glass on the road outside! My dad was a self employed builder/ decorator yet our house was in a dreadful state. Wouldn't let anyone else do anything. All this got worse after mum left, the gambling obsession took over even more. At times I didn't like my dad but loved him nonetheless. Could see his vulnerabilities & to some extent why he was the way he was. Anyway my point to all this is to say I understand how very difficult this is for you & you are being a fantastic daughter doing what you do. No answers I'm afraid. Just have to do your best to deal with things. The bank is his best friend, it gives him comfort to go there.Time will change the situation, let the authorities do what they can once they can get a foothold in the door. So sorry I can't offer any solutions. Best wishes.

Thank you Moggymad for your understanding, I feel like I'm making excuses for him all the time, but I know him better than anyone and how stubborn he can be, he survives on his own so well (even though you wouldn't think he should due to his Advanced Dementia) but this is due to the fact he is and has always been a man of routine and very happy in his own company. In every fact apart from his brain, he is very fit and well, which is a blessing in some ways but not in others as it would be nice if he would just stay put and allow me or others to look after him!

I can certainly see some similarities between our dads, maybe it's something to do with them both being builders and outdoorsy kind of men. My dad has never been a gambler but has always been very tight with money and being a builder he thought he could do every trade himself when it came to his home as he wouldn't pay anyone else to do it. My poor mum wanted a new modern kitchen years ago and what did my dad do? He picked up scraps of kitchen cupboards from the building site where he worked and pieced it together himself not costing a penny. It was awful and it's still there and now falling to bits. My dad also doesn't have central heating in his home, being a builder he was used to the cold and all weathers, he totally refused to have it installed over the years even though mum begged him. He would also only allow mum to have one bar on the electric fire in just one room to keep warm. I was brought up very tough, no hot water, hot water bottle in bed to keep warm etc etc. My dad still boils a kettle if he needs hot water to wash now!!!

The bank is certainly his best friend, who wouldn't like to be given money for doing nothing? I also think he enjoys the walk and looking around the shops, it's become part of his routine and has taken over from the routine he used to have which was going on the trains every day or walking along a path next to a dual carriageway. So in some ways doing the bank routine is more preferable and a lot closer to home. It's the lack of understanding which goes with the territory of Dementia that troubles me, of not knowing the time of day or the day of the week even though he does have a Dementia clock, wears 2 watches and there is a big sign telling him when the bank is open and closed, he just chooses to take no notice of them.

Thanks & Take care. Elle x

 

[Elle3]

This is a tough one I don't know what the possibility is of trying to get a male befriender for your dad? Just thought if you can get one, maybe introduce him as a friend who is new to your dad's area and ask your dad to take him around the local area to show where things are/interesting places to go walking?

Hi Risa, my dad did have a friend he used to go out with twice a week, but that friend couldn't cope with my dad as my dad became more and more awkward with him. My dad is very stubborn and determined and won't listen. They used to travel on the trains together, but we all know train times can change, platforms can change, but my dad wouldn't have it and even though the friend would try to tell my dad and show him he was wrong, dad would just ignore him and get on the wrong train because he knew best. What are you supposed to do about that? I have also witnessed this first hand so I know how bad it was for him. My dad also would arrange to meet the friend at the station at 10am, but would turn up a hour early and then blame the friend for being late and then he would arrive 2 hours earlier and blame the friend again for being late. They had travel passes which they could only use after a certain time to get free travel, but my dad would try to ignore this and then complain if he was asked to pay. You could actually see that my dad was doing all these things deliberately sometimes just to try and prove a point. He would even get an earlier train, so his friend would be waiting at the station at their agreed time not knowing what to do and he would very often have to get on the train and go looking for my dad and he would eventually find my dad at the usual cafe they would have lunch at, having his lunch and my dad would usually say something quite nasty to his friend. So his friend stopped going out with him.

So even though it's a good suggestion, I'm sorry it wouldn't work my dad is totally antisocial and always has been. Even when my mum was alive, he would hate walking with others, usually as they were too slow, or talking too much or wanting to stop for drinks all the time, he was a total nightmare for my mum who was very social and had lots of friends. Dad was an only child and just enjoyed his own company and couldn't see the point in others. I go walking with him sometimes and he always complains he doesn't like the route we are taking or we are going too slow and if I comment he's walking slower, then he will literally start running to show me how fit he is!!

 

[Elle3]

This is a very difficult situation and no-one wants to upset anyone, but I really dont think this can continue; he is a very vulnerable person.

I think it might be time to register the POA with the bank and take over his finances so that he cannot withdraw any. He may kick off and the police may have to be called, but it might be the sort of crisis that is needed (even if not what anyone wants)

Hi Canary. I have already registered the POA with the bank and we have an agreement about the money he can withdraw. Like I said, he has no means of taking money out, no bank card or cheque book, so he isn't vulnerable to others taking advantage of him and there is an instruction in place that he can't take anymore money out than £100 in a week unless I am present, the bank ring me if they are concerned. We felt it was better that my dad could take a small amount out, rather than none at all. They know him very well and he has banked with them all his working life. I really don't mind him taking the money out, far more money goes in than he can take out. It's the carrying it all around with him and the out of hours visits he does when he gets confused that I would like to manage, but I suppose I've realised things actually could be a lot worse.

 

[Elle3]

As you have had the Police (inc Transport Police)involved, make sure you get an incident number, each time.
This will build a picture of his behaviour, which Social services cannot ignore.
There will come a time when despite his wishes, a safe place will be found.
The Bank situation will have to be sorted, as the bank staff are certainly breaking all-sorts of rules.
Good luck, it's going to be rough, but (big but), it's in his own best interests.

Bod

Thanks Bod, I do have an incident number for this, but the other instances were the Police have been involved, no I haven't. But the Police have also reported it then onto Social Services. As these instances are few and far between though, Social Services are not yet worried and apart from being able to offer Carers and day care which they have agreed won't work, they can do nothing. They have even told me they would prefer for him to stay in his own home for as long as possible and when they have come out to see him, they can see that within his home he actually manages very well and there is no current risk to his welfare. The only issue is the night time excursions but when we got Care Line installed to try and prevent this, it actually caused more problems than it solved and dad quite literally deliberately opened doors just so he could ignore them trying to contact him to see if he was OK. They then had to call me to say they think he'd gone out, but because I had 'just checking' I could see on my system that he was still home but ignoring them, it got to the stage they were calling me every night just to find out themselves if he was still in or not. Dad also called me every day to complain about it and it lasted all of 2 weeks before dad kept switching it off and then he eventually ripped it off the wall. So they came and took it away and now all I have is 'just checking' which I find brilliant and I couldn't manage without it.