Deprivation of Liberty?

yak55

Registered User
Jun 15, 2015
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My Mum lives with myself and my husband and was diagnosed with Alzheimer's in January 2012.
The reason she has moved in with us is that my fit and healthy Dad passed away in August this year which has been a huge shock for us all.
In a conversation with a SW on the phone recently (first time I've had contact) I mentioned that because Mum has a tendency to walk out the front door we now security lock all doors that lead outside for her own safety.
She told me this could be seen as a 'deprivation of liberty' and she needed to visit us to see for herself if this was necessary and if it was there would be a court order put in place.
This has absolutely terrified us!
Has anyone any experience of this? Any advice would be greatly appreciated
 

HillyBilly

Registered User
Dec 21, 2015
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Ireland
As long as you're not locking your Mum in the house alone while you are out then I don't really see there's a problem. I would think many people lock their doors these days, especially overnight and especially when there is a PWD in the house.
 

LadyA

Registered User
Oct 19, 2009
13,730
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Ireland
Hello @yak55 .
I'm assuming what the Social Worker is referring to is a Deprivation of Liberty (Safeguarding) Order, which would be the same as hospitals, Nursing Homes etc put in place so they can safely keep vulnerable people from wandering, without unlawfully detaining them. Basically, you can't hold a person against their will except for their safety, and you need to have the Order to cover yourself. At least, that's how I under it.
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
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London
The thing is though that a DoLS order is usually only applicable in a hospital or care home setting. Otherwise the Court of Protection would have to be involved and I don't think that happens often, so the SW may be overreacting a bit. Having said that, it's ok to lock the doors if you are in the house as well, but you cannot just lock someone in their house when they are on their own. Apart from the fact that it might cause distress, it could also be quite dangerous, if for example a fire broke out and the person couldn't escape the locked house. If she is not safe to be left on her own, Social Services should organise support in the fom of day care, befrienders or daily carers.

https://www.scie.org.uk/mca/dols/at-a-glance
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
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Salford
I've never heard of someone needing a DoLS order in their own home before, but on the CoP website it does say
"Apply for authorisation
If the person who lacks mental capacity doesn’t live in a care home or hospital but is being deprived of their liberty, you must apply to the court to get an order authorising the restriction of their freedom."
So it sounds like the social worker may be right but like I say, I've never heard of it happening before in someone's own home.
Given the backlog of applications from care homes after the West Cheshire case I'd have thought the last thing the CoP would need is everyone care at home to apply.
It is worth pointing out that it is Deprivation of Liberty Safeguarding order, people miss off the Safeguarding bit but the reason for the order is to keep the vulnerable person safe which may necessitate depriving them of their liberty.
K
 

Beate

Registered User
May 21, 2014
12,179
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London
Yes, basically, that order would give you permission to lock your Mum in. But unlike in a care home where there is plenty of staff available to deal with the fallouts of the deprivation and get them to safety in event of a fire or similar, if you simply lock your Mum in an empty house and leave - I don't think you would get an order for that. So unless someone is in the house with her, please look at other options. If that's what you meant all along - you lock the doors while you're in the house with her, then I think the SW is overreacting.
 

JigJog

Registered User
Nov 6, 2013
236
0
I was told my a member of the community mental health team that it was illegal for me to lock the door to prevent my husband from wandering, even if I was in the house with him as it was a deprivation of his liberty.

She said that if I intended to do that, then I would have to apply to the court for a DoLS order.

I had alarms fitted on the doors but they only told me when he had gone out, they didn't prevent him from going out. There were times when I needed to be sure he wasn't going to go out, like when I was having a shower or going to the toilet, so I'm afraid there were times when the door had to be locked!
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,064
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Salford
Maybe there are still places where people don't keep there doors locked at all times but I've always locked the doors when I'm in the house. If you said you locked them for your safety how could they prove otherwise.
You could say the PWD has a set of keys but doesn't carry them round with him? Who carries there house keys round with them while they're in the house? Not me.
K
 

Pete R

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Jul 26, 2014
2,036
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Staffs
Even more than just the letter "S" there is a huge difference between Deprivation of Liberty (DoL), an order by the Court of Protection and the Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards (DoLS).

DoLS apply to those in CH's or Hospital and not to those in other settings. It is a safeguard for when someone's liberty is deprived without the order of the court which happens to the vast majority of those that enter one of those settings and lack capacity.

The CoP can authorise a DoL in all settings including those outside of a CH or Hospital. If so a DoLS is not needed as it would just be a duplication.

This is how I believe the Law stands.......

With regard to your own home if some one has capacity to make decisions and they are deprived of their liberty say by locking doors in such a way as they cannot leave then this could be classed as false imprisonment, kidnapping or wilful neglect and the State would need to be involved. If it was felt that the actions were the only way to keep the person safe then a DoL would be needed from the CoP. As far as I know a private individual cannot do this and it can only be applied for by the State. The form suggested above cannot be completed by an "individual".

To me the above makes sense.

Alarmingly though, in terms of the Law, the same applies to someone who lacks capacity and is being deprived of their liberty even if it is their best interests and the only way to keep them safe.:eek:

If you are doing this the State she be informed and they would have to go down the CoP route as above.

If the State are already involved with any part of the care they HAVE to go down that route if there are no alternatives to keeping the person safe.

However as long as the "best interests" principles of the MCA are applied and it is being done in good faith then I doubt the State will be coming round early one morning kicking in the front door of the 50,000 carers that are believed to be in this position, locking up around and allowing the PWD's out to roam the streets.


New guidelines called Liberty Protection Safeguards, to replace DoLS are under discussion to hopefully streamline/clarify all systems that are currently in place.

:)
 

Pete R

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Jul 26, 2014
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Staffs
This has absolutely terrified us!
Having the State involved with anything can be quite daunting.
However you should not be terrified and sleep easy, if ever possible when looking after a PWD, in the fact that you are doing a great job and acting in the best interests of your Mum. If this is the only way to keep her safe then nothing should change.

:)
 

Rosie4u

Registered User
Jun 22, 2017
219
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South Manchester
Hi I read this with interest and must say that we lock all our doors all the time when we are in the house and lately I have taken to carrying a key with me. We do this so people cant come in (cant imagine where the social worker lives if the think you don't need to lock a door) and I carry a key so if I go out to the bins I don't get locked out.
A Dols is quite a thing to have in your own home - my aunt had one when we had to move her to a care home - for her own safety and well being and she didn't want to be there.She didnt have a diagnosis of dementia so a Dols was required or she would have left.
I've never heard of it except in a hospital or care home.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing :)
 

yak55

Registered User
Jun 15, 2015
616
0
Having the State involved with anything can be quite daunting.
However you should not be terrified and sleep easy, if ever possible when looking after a PWD, in the fact that you are doing a great job and acting in the best interests of your Mum. If this is the only way to keep her safe then nothing should change.

:)
Thank you Pete R
 

yak55

Registered User
Jun 15, 2015
616
0
Hi I read this with interest and must say that we lock all our doors all the time when we are in the house and lately I have taken to carrying a key with me. We do this so people cant come in (cant imagine where the social worker lives if the think you don't need to lock a door) and I carry a key so if I go out to the bins I don't get locked out.
A Dols is quite a thing to have in your own home - my aunt had one when we had to move her to a care home - for her own safety and well being and she didn't want to be there.She didnt have a diagnosis of dementia so a Dols was required or she would have left.
I've never heard of it except in a hospital or care home.

Sounds like you are doing the right thing :)
Thanks for replying Rosie4u. I’ll know more when the SW has visited us.
Your tip on keeping a key on you is a great idea. I hadn’t even thought I may get locked out!
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
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Nottinghamshire
Maybe the social worker will go and fetch your mum when she wanders? These jobsworths make my blood boil!! As if we don't have a hard enough time...
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
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Staffs
Maybe the social worker will go and fetch your mum when she wanders? These jobsworths make my blood boil!! As if we don't have a hard enough time...
I am afraid in this case it is the law. Nothing to do with being a jobsworth and will probably put the OP on a stronger footing.

I know that it is not happening in this case but imagine the uproar if someone was being locked in a house against their will and the SW failed to do any checks.

:)
 

Bunpoots

Volunteer Host
Apr 1, 2016
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Nottinghamshire
I understand the reason for the law @Pete R, but I feel the social worker could have used a bit more compassion in communicating it. I also think the law needs looking at. Imagine the uproar if a vulnerable person wandered out into the main road and caused a serious accident just because you're not allowed to lock your own front door :eek:
 

Pete R

Registered User
Jul 26, 2014
2,036
0
Staffs
I also think the law needs looking at.
Last paragraph of post #9. :)

Imagine the uproar if a vulnerable person wandered out into the main road and caused a serious accident just because you're not allowed to lock your own front door :eek:
I don't think anyone has ever said that they have been told not to lock their doors have they? The OP certainly hasn't and I seriously doubt she will ever be told to do so.

:)