Selling my Dad's home to pay for Care Home fees

[Sparkysdream]

Hi everyone! My Dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer's several months ago. I have POA, I have no siblings and my Dad's siblings do not really spend much time with him. Dad was assessed as requiring full time care, he has moved into a lovely home, the staff are fantastic, I can visit every day and my Dad is now very settled there.

The financial assessment has just been completed and the time has come to sell my Dad's house to pay for his fees.How much detail should I go into with my Dad? He never asks for home. But I feel sneaky selling the house without a full discussion with him, it is so difficult. Can anyone please advise? I'm stuck between wanting to be completely honest, and not wanting to upset him. What will I do if my Dad starts asking for home when the house is sold? It's such a worrying time!

 

[LadyA]

Welcome, @Sparkysdream . My instinct would be to say nothing. Your dad has moved home, and now is settled in his new home. He won't be going back to his former home again, whether it's sold or not. So personally, I wouldn't mention it, and if he ever asks about it - which is unlikely, if he has settled well - you could just say that the house is being well looked after.

 

[Beate]

Agreed. I wouldn't mention it at all. Nothing will be gained by it. You are acting in Dad's best interests, which also includes not upsetting him. If he asks, don't say it's been sold, just say the house is fine, but he has to stay here right now.

 

[Sparkysdream]

Thank you LadyA, I think that's a kind way of dealing with the potential question and I must remember that response. Some days my Dad is so lucid, and it's those times which make me feel like I'm being devious. I suppose I can't quite take it in myself that Dad has deteriorated so far so fast and won't be going home.

 

[Sparkysdream]

Thank you Beate, it's so lovely to get opinions from others! I've been winging it on my own for months now. I won't discuss the house sale with my Dad.

 

[lemonjuice]

Whilst I agree there's no point in 'stirring the waters' unnecessarily by telling your father, I understand the need to be honest and the 'guilt' of disposing of someone else's possessions.
After 6 years I still have a garage full of my mother's most important treasured possessions. I just knew I couldn't get rid of things which were hers, even though I realised she'd never need them again, ask after them or miss them but it just felt wrong- they weren't mine to get rid of and I knew I couldn't visit my mother knowing I'd done so.

A lot depends how you believe your father might react. Is he likely to remember his old home and ask you questions about it?
By the time my mother moved into the NH I was lucky that she didn't recognise her own home. Hospital had said she needed full-time care and I asked for us to try 'home' for a while, which we did. For all of 2 days. She had no recognition, had no idea of a need to find a special place to perform her 'toilet' let alone locate the correct room and I knew the time was 'right'. I knew she wouldn't remember anything for longer than a couple of minutes, so to assuage my conscience I asked her,
"Do you trust me to make the right decisions for you?" To which she nodded her head. So I took that to mean it ''gave me permission' . Later when I knew she had no concept of home or sale etc. I then told her - again mainly for my benefit to know I'd got her permission.

 

[Sparkysdream]

Oh Lemonjuice, the similarities in our situations are striking! Yes, it's the guilt of getting rid of things which don't belong to me, it's so wrong!! My Dad also came home from hospital but actually only lasted 1 night, his neighbour found him trying to get into a taxi in the middle of the night and he was very disorientated. It just wasn't safe for Dad to be at home anymore.

I don't think Dad remembers his previous home, he speaks very rarely so it's difficult to know. He sometimes refers to his childhood home. When Dad was being discharged from hospital we had discussions about how I needed him to be safe and he told the Social Worker and I that he knew I always had his best interests at heart, he knew then that I'd been fighting his corner but that was 6 months ago. Just realising today how much Dad has deteriorated in such a short time.

 

[love.dad.but..]

I had to sell my dads house, he had never once mentioned his home after he had been placed in the NH, he had declined beyond that understanding. Yes I felt guilty at the time, like when I had to sell his car front under his nose while I was living with him to keep him looked after, it feels deceitful if you and your parents have been honest and open. However I didn't tell him and it was the right thing todo do. Why bring to his mind something he has forgotten about, what would be gained for your dad in telling him, why risk bringing upset into his settled CH life just to do the 'right' thing which of course you would have done if he had not had dementia, you are for good reasons making the decision to sell the house and because of dementia can't change that decision, if you tell him and he gets upset can you change the decision...no. I got used to telling love lies, I have used many, so much kinder for dad...this is no different except you don't have to lie, just not mention it. If he hasn't mentioned the house so far, its likely he doesn't remember it and may not ask about it again. As he declines if he does ask about home it may not even be his last home...for dad he had gone back in time to where he was as a child, that was probably the place in his memory where he found comfort, where he thought his mum was!

Btw...don't be on your own anything you need help or advice with, pop onto TP, always someone to help.

 

[Kevinl]

As others have said sometime saying nothing is the best option.
A few years ago I brought my mother to live with me (long story, falls, hospitals and all that), not longer after I decided to sell her house, not to pay for fees but; I couldn't easily get insurance as the house was empty, it was winter but the house still had to be heated which costs money, the LA said that if my mum officially moved out then her much reduced council tax would revert to 100% (less 25% for living alone) but that over doubled the CT bill then it got vandalised, nothing too serious but empty houses can attract the wrong kind of attention.
The hardest thing (as has been said) wasn't not telling her it was clearing the house out, little trinkets, pictures, perfectly preserved wedding presents always kept in their original boxes, trust me it gets very hard throwing some things in a skip, that's the really hard part, not telling my mum was easy, I didn't.
But just before it sold when she asked to go home I took her there, she hated it and wouldn't go in the door, she reminded me that my dad died there...made the sell decision a whole lot easier for me but the house clearance was one of the worse few days of my life.
K

 

[lemonjuice]

the house clearance was one of the worse few days of my life.

Gosh you were lucky.
Our house clearance took over 4 months , going pretty much every day.
Mainly because my mother had 'hidden' all her important documents. After my father died she showed me a briefcase where all important docs were stored, incl birth / marriage certificates etc. When she moved into the NH I went straight to the briefcase only to find it empty!
Consequently I had to shake out every single book, mag. in the house- she'd put odd things between the pages.

I reckon she'd kept every paper and plastic bag for the past 20 years. They were bundled up in 10s, put into a bag and tied up with string. Then those 10 were bundled put into a bag and tied up. There were shopping bags, galore everywhere full of these things. I had to unpack every last one as occasionally there was 'something precious' in the very last bag. Once I found 'the pattern' I realised I would have to go through everything with a very fine toothcomb. Emotionally that was very draining and then of course I had to sort all the other stuff and clean and get the house presentable.

 

[mab]

This thread has brought back memories!
With my mother it was money secreted under the stair carpet, inside books, in the hems of curtains.... all very random........

 

[love.dad.but..]

I didn't feel I could dispose or distribute amongst siblings dads things like all his college notes from 1947, GPO promotion board letters, books, etc while dad was still alive that really did seem like I would be disrespectful and symbolically disgarding lovely dad but it all reminded me of how much he and mum had achieved from very impoverished childhoods, so as my dear siblings left the whole process to me...big sigh...it took many weeks but I have shelves in my spare room stacked to the rafters with all his stuff. Still there 8 mins after he died,

 

[SnowWhite]

Hello Sparkysdream - I sold my Mums house in August but I kept her fully informed all the way through. You know your Dad better than anyone so it has to be what YOU think best.

Mum was in care and I told her we would have to sell her house to pay for her care. She asked a few times whether she could go back but she wasn't very well and her mobility was poor and then the house sold very Quickly so she never got to go back but it would all have been too emotional for her anyway.

A brother and I emptied the house which took two weeks to go through properly and all her treasures like photos, personal papers, clothes, handicraft materials, diaries etc, knitting wool, needles, patterns etc are now overflowing in my summerhouse, our "office", my landing and the garage.

You will save a lot of money using a licensed conveyancer rather than a solicitor and I also saved a lot of money by negotiating a fixed fee with the estate agent as it sold for £25,000 more than they told me I would get. That's another thing, if you have a figure in your head and they tell you something lower just stick to your guns and see how it goes. 3 estate agents gave me the same price and I insisted with the one we went with that they put it on for £15,000 more but actually got £25,000 more.

 

[Toony Oony]

A timely post ... no prizes for what I was doing yesterday! Yes - sorting through Mum's things in her flat.
I did this 5 years ago when she moved from her home to assisted living and it was grim as she has been a bit of a hoarder all her life. Then, I carefully packed 4 huge storage containers with all the 'memorabilia' and stacked these tightly at the non-opening end of a cupboard that had the spare bed in front of it. This memorabilia was stuff that I knew she wouldn't want to part with, but wouldn't be needed or on show ... wedding bits, my school stuff, an old teddy, badges earned, baby bits etc.
Sometime over the past couple of years she managed to get to the cupboard, clear enough space to get to the boxes and remove handfuls of random small items. As her mobility was bad and she was not robust, I haven't a clue how she managed it. Yesterday, every vase, pot, dish, receptacle had a few little bits poked in them - the odd certificate and photo hidden in books, behind things, under things, wrapped in envelopes. All secreted so I never really noticed them when visiting.
I too am having to decide what needs to be kept.I know the things that were important to Mum and Dad - those will be kept, along with all the photos but do I keep the collection of EVERY greeting card a family member has ever sent her??

Like others, since entering CH in July Mum has not once mentioned her old place and appears to have no memory of it. When she very first moved in she asked what would happen and I just said that I would sort everything for her and she need not worry, and that was it. I tentatively brought a few bits from her flat to decorate her room and she thought those and the clothes I brought from home were all new things. Sad but at least she is not distressed.

 

[canary]

Yes, memories brought back here too.

I had to sell mums bungalow and clear it out; decide what to keep, what to send to the charity shop and what to bin. By far, the hardest bit for me was taking her bed to the tip. Birth etc certificates in with the books, deeds of the house behind the chest of drawers, her will in with her best linen, hundreds of pounds in cash in her knicker drawer and jewellery in the tea caddy under the tea bags! So yes, a fine toothed comb needed there too. It felt deceitful, as if I was purposely wiping out mums life, but it had to be done.

I never told mum that I had sold the bungalow either. Once she asked me what had happened to it, but as I had sold it to a friend of hers I just said that this friend was living there and mum was happy about this - I think that she imagined that this friend was looking after it until she got back! After this when she talked about "home" she meant her childhood home that had been bombed in the war, but she talked as if it was still there with her parents and siblings (all long dead) still living there.

 

[Witzend]

I just told my mother when she asked about her house (she did at first, quite often) that there was nothing to worry about, we were looking after everything for her. Which we were, including the sale. We never discussed the question of selling it with her - she would only have got upset or angry or both, and it just had to be done.
But it wasn't too long before she seemed to forget about it altogether and stopped asking.

Have to say that clearing her house was awful, in that there were so many things of sentimental value that just had to be chucked, since none of us had room for very much. We did find the local freecycle helpful - it was amazing what people came and took away at an 'open afternoon'.

Having done both, I think it's worse having to clear a house when someone's gone into a care home, than if they've died. You feel as if you're throwing their life away - at least I did.

 

[Primrose19]

Yes, agree with Witzend it is worse doing it when person is in a care home. We are clearing mum’s bungalow very slowly as she had mixed up all the important papers with the mass of advertising flyers and magazines she kept. She had a locked briefcase we had to break into as the keys were lost but nothing much in it! Hoping to find cash she asked for but probably just hid but no luck yet.
How far back do we need to keep bank statements , tax returns etc?

 

[love.dad.but..]

I just told my mother when she asked about her house (she did at first, quite often) that there was nothing to worry about, we were looking after everything for her. Which we were, including the sale. We never discussed the question of selling it with her - she would only have got upset or angry or both, and it just had to be done.
But it wasn't too long before she seemed to forget about it altogether and stopped asking.

Have to say that clearing her house was awful, in that there were so many things of sentimental value that just had to be chucked, since none of us had room for very much. We did find the local freecycle helpful - it was amazing what people came and took away at an 'open afternoon'.

Having done both, I think it's worse having to clear a house when someone's gone into a care home, than if they've died. You feel as if you're throwing their life away - at least I did.

I agree I too have done both and although when a parent is in a care home you generally know just about everything about them it still feels like you are intruding into someone's life who is still living. When someone dies, whilst sad to sort and clear the house, it has a much more needs must practical feel. I guess it maybe because deep down we never wanted our loved one to be living in care at all.

 

[lemonjuice]

Having done both, I think it's worse having to clear a house when someone's gone into a care home, than if they've died.

it still feels like you are intruding into someone's life who is still living. When someone dies, whilst sad to sort and clear the house, it has a much more needs must practical feel. I guess it maybe because deep down we never wanted our loved one to be living in care at all.

I think both these comments sum up the problem and explain our feelings of guilt. When someone has died we are 'free' to decide what to do with their possessions, whereas when sorting through their things because they have entered a Care Home, we feel we have no 'right' to decide what to do with their possessions and realise they are no longer capable of telling us what they would like us to keep. Plus I always had the worry that one day she might just remember a possession and ask for it. Keeping it meant I could honestly say, "Oh I didn't bring it with me, I'll bring it next time", knowing I could do so.

Hearing all tehse stories also emphasizes how almost all dementia sufferers seem to 'squirrel away things, often important things/ documents, because they've lost ability to differentiate what is important from what isn't and makes the job of 'clearing' much more of a difficult job.

 

[DeMartin]

Mum was incredibly organised, gas and electric bills all filed, trouble was the 3” file included bills for houses 7 moves back (Mum liked moving house!)