Let or sell?

User

Registered User
Mar 23, 2015
25
0
Mum's in a residential home. She has funds for a while; when these are used, her house will have to be sold.

The question is "let or sell now".

1) Letting will cover some of her care fee, and leaves the important reassurance of having a home for perhaps a couple of years.
2) Selling will give a lump sum to be invested, and may be easier.

Various considerations: tax, property maintenance claims offset against tax, investment possibilities if sold, legacy...

Where to go for good (probably paid-for) advice?
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,306
0
Bury
Mum's in a residential home. She has funds for a while; when these are used, her house will have to be sold.

The question is "let or sell now".

1) Letting will cover some of her care fee, and leaves the important reassurance of having a home for perhaps a couple of years.
2) Selling will give a lump sum to be invested, and may be easier.

Various considerations: tax, property maintenance claims offset against tax, investment possibilities if sold, legacy...

Where to go for good (probably paid-for) advice?

I'll leave the pros and cons of letting versus selling to someone else.

Does your Mum have capacity?
If not does anybody have an LPA?
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,379
0
Salford
In the past letting was fairly easy and pretty informal sometimes, that was then and now is now.
The set up costs are considerable; energy performance certificate with a copy to the tenant too, registration to a landlord deposit scheme and inform the tenant which scheme or you'll get fined, check the immigration statue of the tenant even if they're UK born, landlord insurance, credit check, gas and electricity checks renewed annually, boiler breakdown cover as the landlord is responsible not the tenant, self assessment income tax and you're liable for income tax on all of the income (less expenses) at the relevant rate.
If you do it through an agent then expect to pay 10-15% gross to them, let's not even mention what happens if they don't pay the rent and you have to go to court to get them out.
I could never make the numbers add up on my mum's home, it worked out that if nothing went wrong one months rent would be less than one weeks care and as the house would have to be sold anyway why take on all the aggro and risk for very little return?
Articles are starting to appear saying house prices are starting to drop, if that happens then the tiny return you get by investing the money might be better than a loss.
K
 

love.dad.but..

Registered User
Jan 16, 2014
4,962
0
Kent
I concur with K.. researched and went thoroughly through all the pros and cons practical and financial ...renting v selling. Couldn't make the figures or practicalities for renting work for dad so sold his house.
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
0
England
I did do this for my mother, but as someone has said the rental income was far less than a week's fees, but it did decrease the monthly deficit. After 3 years it all gets slightly more difficult, as it becomes an asset and not her home. Capital Gains is also due and especially when the savings run down to such an extent that one has to make the decision to sell and would have to accept any offer, no matter how low and how big a hit and probably more than wipe out the amount of income generated by renting. Also having to give 2 months notice hampers one's choice of when to sell.
 

Liepy

Registered User
Oct 10, 2017
22
0
I did do this for my mother, but as someone has said the rental income was far less than a week's fees, but it did decrease the monthly deficit. After 3 years it all gets slightly more difficult, as it becomes an asset and not her home. Capital Gains is also due and especially when the savings run down to such an extent that one has to make the decision to sell and would have to accept any offer, no matter how low and how big a hit and probably more than wipe out the amount of income generated by renting. Also having to give 2 months notice hampers one's choice of when to sell.
It’s the first time I have heard of this? Mum in a home for nearly 3 years. Dad died a year ago and left his half of their house to us. We have just put it up for sale to pay mums fees with her share when her savings run out in a years time. How will this affect her and us.?
 

nitram

Registered User
Apr 6, 2011
30,306
0
Bury
In
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/threads/let-or-sell.104771/#post-1457636
I left it to others with experience of the situation to comment, so far they agree with my gut feeling.

As well as the 'is it worth it financially' aspect they have covered you have to consider how much the lack of hassle, maybe at a time when you are stressed, is worth.

If you let the property and approach the stage where it has to be sold, how long do you assume the sale will take, more hassle possibly resulting in a low sale price.

If you think the house if sold now would produce £x after all costs have been paid think about what you would do if you had £x in the bank but no house to sell.
Would you invest it or buy a house to rent out?
OK buying a house costs money but it does not alter the drift of the argument.
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
0
England
It’s the first time I have heard of this? Mum in a home for nearly 3 years. Dad died a year ago and left his half of their house to us. We have just put it up for sale to pay mums fees with her share when her savings run out in a years time. How will this affect her and us.?
I only found out about the 3 yr. rule after I'd decided to rent out.

You need to be aware you need to notify HMRC if the home is let out and they're liable for tax on the rental income. And then on the sale they can be liable for Capital Gains Tax on any increase in value between purchase and sale minus an allowance for when it was their own 'Home' and a certain amount of time when they were in a Care Home.
 

Georgina63

Registered User
Aug 11, 2014
973
0
Hi @User, I've recently sold my parents house. Initially I considered renting it out, but my sibling wouldn't agree to this and so we sold instead. I have to say it is such a relief now not having the property to worry about, for which I am grateful, and so this could possibly be a consideration for you. We now just have the dilemma of how best to manage the money from the sale! Georgina.
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
0
England
We now just have the dilemma of how best to manage the money from the sale!
That was one of my major concerns about selling. There is virtually nowhere one can put the money to gain a reasonable rate of interest, have ready access and be relatively risk-free. Plus if you live in one of the richer areas of the country and have above a certain amount sitting in the bank there is Capital gains to pay, reducing the savings further.:(
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,379
0
Salford
Plus if you live in one of the richer areas of the country and have above a certain amount sitting in the bank there is Capital gains to pay, reducing the savings further.:(

Really? Money in a bank isn't subject to CGT, the interest is liable for income tax is the position as far as I know. Keeping the house may incur CGT after 3 years of being let or left empty.
K
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
0
England
Really? Money in a bank isn't subject to CGT, the interest is liable for income tax is the position as far as I know. Keeping the house may incur CGT after 3 years of being let or left empty.
K
To my understanding if you have above a certain limit after sale of a house it does. A colleague 'got caught' after a house sale when he obviously had a large sum of money in his account. He'd moved to our area for work and having 5 children and needing another two rooms for his mother, who lived with them, had great difficulty finding a house large enough, within their price bracket. After a year with no success he found he had to pay Capital gains Tax and subsequently had even less capital to purchase with..:(
 

Kevinl

Registered User
Aug 24, 2013
6,379
0
Salford
The annual CGT exemption is £11,300pa, double if you're a couple and that's on the gain in value not the capital your friend must have made some profit on the capital to attract CGT.
Many people on here sell a house when they go into care, sometimes for a lot of money, none of them pay CGT on the money waiting to be used for care costs. Income tax on the interest but not CGT. If your friend sold his principle private residence then that is CGT exempt.
K
 

jugglingmum

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
7,111
0
Chester
To my understanding if you have above a certain limit after sale of a house it does. A colleague 'got caught' after a house sale when he obviously had a large sum of money in his account. He'd moved to our area for work and having 5 children and needing another two rooms for his mother, who lived with them, had great difficulty finding a house large enough, within their price bracket. After a year with no success he found he had to pay Capital gains Tax and subsequently had even less capital to purchase with..:(

You use the words 'got caught' - are these the words your colleague used, as HMRC do catch people who sell houses liable to cgt and don't declare it, as they link up all SDLT returns. We get at least one enquiry a year on clients who 'missunderstand' the rules and sell something and get caught. The client that I dealt with most recently got a penalty of 40% of the tax as well. So maybe he'd sold 2 properties and not declared the cgt on one or he had a very large garden.. Or else he was going to have to pay a lot of stamp duty on the purchase.

If you have lived in a house for the whole time you owned it there is no cgt as you get Principal private residence exemption whatever the value.

If you move into care, the last 36 months of ownership are exempt. If you rent a house out there is also a £40,000 lettings exemption.

As Kevin said there is also an £11,300 exemption, so in practice most people moving into care and letting a home for a period will not pay cgt. If the person dies before the home is sold there is no cgt.

(Note the gain is calculated over the total period of ownership, so cost £40,000, sold £440,000 - gain is £400,000 then divide by the number of months owned and you get the monthly gain for tax purposes, so no intermediate values are needed. If purchased before March 82 the march 82 value applies not cost)

If you sold the house and invested it, and the investments were sold, cgt would still apply, although again it is likely that the annual exemption applies.
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
0
England
You use the words 'got caught' - are these the words your colleague used, as HMRC do catch people who sell houses liable to cgt
Not sure of all the details. I know I just remember him having great difficulty finding a suitable house large enough to accommodate everyone within his price range and moaning that because he'd had such a large amount sitting in the bank for a year he'd lost a lot of money due to CGT. Didn't take much interest at the time to be honest and it was only when I read about a home becoming an 'asset' and liable to CGT thereafter that I read up on it.
 

jugglingmum

Registered User
Jan 5, 2014
7,111
0
Chester
It sounds like he may have sold 2 properties (ie one being a rental property) and had to pay cgt on that. If it was a while ago he might have had little or no penalty. If he was moaning about the bank issue, people are often caught via bank reports, we had a lady in last month with undeclared rental income caught via a bank report (banks have a legal obligation to report sometimes) where she was receiving rental income on a property she had inherited from her mum (previously let by mum). The property was in Turkey and bank had to report money coming into UK.

The comment we apply to lots of clients moaning about tax bills(in the office not to client), is they've had the money so it's only fair they pay the tax, after all we've had to through PAYE. (the richer people are the more they seem to moan - especially if they've already spent the money)
 
Last edited:

istherelight?

Registered User
Feb 15, 2017
128
0
We went down the rental route but, even with an agent, it's quite hard work. And expensive. It cost £10,000 to get the house up to scratch and odd extras keep cropping up. Hopefully, the improvements will mean a better sale price, and sold it will be as soon as the tenancy is up.
Really, we only rented it out because I felt that dementia had robbed Mum of so much that I couldn't bear to sell the house from "under her" and her savings gave us the rental option. It didn't really make economic sense for us but it was the less painful route at the time.
 

lemonjuice

Registered User
Jun 15, 2016
1,534
0
England
We went down the rental route . . . .
Really, we only rented it out because I felt that dementia had robbed Mum of so much that I couldn't bear to sell the house from "under her" and her savings gave us the rental option. It didn't really make economic sense for us but it was the less painful route at the time.
I think is probably the reason why a lot of us choose the rental route, provided there are sufficient savings and it can be useful for a short space of time, whilst we cope with all those emotions.

Hopefully retaining, it may/could allow prices to rise again, if one is in area where prices have fallen (as in our case) and with interest rates being so poor having money of the value of a house however small is difficult to invest with a decent return , whereas 'bricks and mortar' generally are better.
And if the rental income decreases the shortfall significantly every month can help eke out those saving a bit longer.
 

Georgina63

Registered User
Aug 11, 2014
973
0
We went down the rental route but, even with an agent, it's quite hard work. And expensive. It cost £10,000 to get the house up to scratch and odd extras keep cropping up. Hopefully, the improvements will mean a better sale price, and sold it will be as soon as the tenancy is up.
Really, we only rented it out because I felt that dementia had robbed Mum of so much that I couldn't bear to sell the house from "under her" and her savings gave us the rental option. It didn't really make economic sense for us but it was the less painful route at the time.

Hi @istherelight? - I agree! Even though we did sell it is all so emotional sorting through things, arranging clearance etc, all whilst fols still around but unaware. It feels really strange not having to visit the house now that the sale is complete and new owners are in. One consolation is that the new owners are very happy with their move, so it is good to know the house is being enjoyed, but very bittersweet nonetheless. Georgina x