Support the campaign.....cctv in dementia care homes

[BeardyD]

One case of abuse is one too many but it's not going to be stopped by CCTV. There were few people more in the public eye than Jimmy Savile but he got away with it for years. When abuse happens other people are aware of it or at least have their suspicions. If the care home has a culture which doesn't allow reporting, or a culture of workers solidarity against management, the abuse will continue.

With news media competing for sensational stories the case of one abusive care worker can swamp the news for days. (Pickles53, we seem to be writing the same view at the same time!) Again I'll say that one abusive care worker is too many but think of the 100,000+ good care workers.

CCTV would take the "home" out of "care home".

"1984" was a warning not an instruction manual.

 

[CarpeDiem]

Thank you all for your comments.

The campaign is for cctv in communal areas. My mum is in an EMI care home in the end stages of Alzheimer's.

People are so quick to jump on the bandwagon of rights for the carers etc.... we are talking about vulnerable people who have lost the capacity to promote their rights.

The person who says if cameras are needed time to move ! to where ?? Have you any experience at all of trying to find a placement even self funded as we are.

Mums home has just had. bad report from CQC main problem is staffing levels - albeit they argue the staff to resident ratio is higher than any other home in the area. There are still not enough staff ! There are times when the communal areas are left unsupervised due to staff toileting other residents or feeding resudents in rooms etc. Do I want a cctv system with people in office watching over my Mum in the communal areas when staff are not always there DAMN RIGHT I DO !

Those people in fairy land will say they should never be left unsupervised.....I TOTALLY AGREE and have spent the last 10 months there myself in arguement with the home about it..... I have to accept we are not in a perfect adult care world and there may be times when staff are dealing with other residents and the room is unsupervised...... in that case the sooner the home gets CCTV in my opinion..... and I have to say the opinion of the Homes Relatives Group.......the better.

 

[Pickles53]

In another context entirely, but relevant to this discussion, I've been reading recently about 'confirmation bias'. Essentially, when we see or read anything we are all much more likely to take notice of information which supports our existing views than information which says the opposite. Social media reinforces this, by offering us 'suggested posts' based on posts we have previously 'liked' or 'shared'. So we often don't even see the other points of view.

The truth is rarely plain, and never simple, someone said once.

I suppose that CCTV could become another factor which would influence the decision about which home was most suitable, so that those who feel this is critical would choose those homes in preference to others.

 

[BeardyD]

CCTV Care Campaign for the Vulnerable campaign organiser: Jayne Connery former Big Brother contestant. - just saying.

 

[Louise7]

There are times when the communal areas are left unsupervised due to staff toileting other residents or feeding resudents in rooms etc. Do I want a cctv system with people in office watching over my Mum in the communal areas when staff are not always there DAMN RIGHT I DO !

I personally would rather staff were in the communal areas interacting with the residents rather than sitting watching a bank of CCTV cameras.

From the website which is promoting CCTV in care environments (not just dementia care homes, anywhere where caring takes place) there are two examples provided from homes that have installed CCTV cameras - one in communal areas only and the other in communal areas & bedrooms (on a consent basis only). In both cases the CCTV is monitored remotely by third parties, and randomly rather than full 24hr observation. They don't say whether the cost of the cameras/monitoring is factored into their rates, but it is obviously not a cheap process.

Personally, I would much rather the funds were spent on more staff / improved training / better managers. If this was made 'mandatory' what would happen in the homes who can't afford to install / monitor it? I imagine there would be either cuts to current staffing levels/facilities to pay for it or increases in fees. Yes, abuse does occur (my Mum has been subject to carer abuse) but I am not convinced that bringing in legislation forcing all care facilities to install CCTV in communal areas is the answer. Proper vetting, training, monitoring of care staff, and good management where a culture of 'abuse' is not tolerated would seem to me to be a better way to go.

 

[CarpeDiem]

I personally would rather staff were in the communal areas interacting with the residents rather than sitting watching a bank of CCTV cameras.

From the website which is promoting CCTV in care environments (not just dementia care homes, anywhere where caring takes place) there are two examples provided from homes that have installed CCTV cameras - one in communal areas only and the other in communal areas & bedrooms (on a consent basis only). In both cases the CCTV is monitored remotely by third parties, and randomly rather than full 24hr observation. They don't say whether the cost of the cameras/monitoring is factored into their rates, but it is obviously not a cheap process.

Personally, I would much rather the funds were spent on more staff / improved training / better managers. If this was made 'mandatory' what would happen in the homes who can't afford to install / monitor it? I imagine there would be either cuts to current staffing levels/facilities to pay for it or increases in fees. Yes, abuse does occur (my Mum has been subject to carer abuse) but I am not convinced that bringing in legislation forcing all care facilities to install CCTV in communal areas is the answer. Proper vetting, training, monitoring of care staff, and good management where a culture of 'abuse' is not tolerated would seem to me to be a better way to go.

I agree...... but again in a perfect world ..... which we dont have.

Abuse and neglect has happened since man began.... it will never end totally...... so in my mind anything that might prevent just one person being neglected is worth it.!

If you look on the job sites companies are crying out for carers...... cant get them because of bad pay.... and there we are on another story...... CCTV will never take the place of sufficient carers BUT if its presence can answer some questions re unseen falls/injuries theit has to be good.

 

[SnowWhite]

We are talking about two different things here. 1 is CCTV in communal areas and then I brought in the matter of hidden cameras in bedrooms to ensure people are not being mistreated which may have confused the issue.

I have, over the summer, visited 14 care/nursing homes and in most of them elderly people were taken to the day room or lounge and left to watch TV with usually nobody supervising them. Most of them had no call bells so if somebody fell over or needed assistance they had to wait until a member of staff came along or a more able resident could go and find someone. So I think CCTV in a communal area is good.

 

[Louise7]

I have, over the summer, visited 14 care/nursing homes and in most of them elderly people were taken to the day room or lounge and left to watch TV with usually nobody supervising them. Most of them had no call bells so if somebody fell over or needed assistance they had to wait until a member of staff came along or a more able resident could go and find someone. So I think CCTV in a communal area is good.

CCTV won't stop somebody from falling over or needing assistance though, and even if there is 24hr 'live' monitoring they will still have to wait until someone came along to assist. Help might arrive a bit quicker but if the problems are due to a lack of staff/supervision then, if there are large amounts of funds available to install & monitor CCTV, wouldn't using those funds to recruit more staff / increase carer wages be a better way to spend them? My Mum has had a couple of falls recently and the only way they would have possibly been prevented is if someone was with her 24hrs a day, which isn't sustainable either at home or in a care home. I just think there are better ways of ensuring that people in homes are well cared for than pressing for legislation to mandatory install CCTV.

 

[Pete R]

CCTV Care Campaign for the Vulnerable campaign organiser: Jayne Connery former Big Brother contestant. - just saying.

What an extremely crass comment to make. You do know her Mother suffers from Dementia and received poor care in 3 establishments. Do you think she is just using it to further her own career?

The more that can be done by anyone to highlight this Disease and some of the terrible treatment that goes on is to be applauded and not sneered at.

Here a list of just a few of the "celebrities" that are Official Ambassadors for The Alzheimer's Society......Just Saying.


David Baddiel

Gordon Banks OBE

Jo Brand

Lord Fellowes of West Stafford (Julian Fellowes)

Russell Grant

Ruth Langsford

Carey Mulligan

Arlene Phillips CBE

Angela Rippon CBE

Sir Tony Robinson

Robbie Savage

Meera Syal CBE

Kevin Whately

 

[canary]

Just because I dont support the campaign doesnt mean that I dont care about abuse and it doesnt mean that I dont want the bad ones stopped, so please dont assume.

My argument is that CCTV wont stop the abuse and, in fact, is likely to be counterproductive. If you want good care, then fight for the good carers, not for expensive, intrusive gizmos that wont work.

 

[Pete R]

.............not for expensive, intrusive gizmos that wont work.

Maybe expensive to install but not to maintain.

CCTV is more than a gizmo in our everyday lives.

Those that are monitored "live" can prevent incidents happening or make sure resources arrive so much earlier than would if CCTV were not there.

Those that just record and store also have their uses even if it is "after the fact" in order to identify what has actually happened and if malicious who was responsible.

In a perfect world there would be enough staff on the floor to be able to monitor everyone all of the time but would that ever be enough? In any case in reality it ain't ever going to happen so alternative methods need to be found.

No one is saying CCTV is the answer to all the problems in the care system but I believe it can certainly be a great help.

I ask a question of why it is socially acceptable for CCTV to be mandatory in Prisons, Police Detention Blocks and now becoming the industry standard in Child Day Care Centres where it is even possible for parents to view in real time?

 

[Saun_A]

We would like to thank everyone for their contribution to this thread. We now feel that the discussion has run its course and diverse views on this topic have been expressed and debated.