Employing a day carer, where to start?...

[RaspPav]

Currently my mum has a carer coming in once a week & she goes to daycare once a week. Between myself & the carer who comes in we've established that now is the time for mum to have more care in place, she's so vulnerable but not at care home stage yet. She has moderate mixed dementia. This seems like such a huge task & I have so many questions! The care agency I currently use would be far too expensive to have on a regular basis so they suggested I get someone in to be with mum during the day, take her shopping, help her with her cleaning & getting her meals etc.

So, I know what I'm after & have an idea what to ask for, but do they have to show me their DBS or do I have to request one? If so how do I go about this?

With regards to paying someone I assume I just pay them the agreed amount & they sort out their own tax etc? I've no time to sort this out myself nor the money to pay someone else to do it. I'm assuming I'd be paying for a service rather than employing someone?

Where do I start looking, where could I place an advert? I know my local paper charges an arm & leg for a simple line ad!

Any advice would be really helpful.

Many thanks
RaspPav

 

[Pickles53]

Hi and welcome to TP.

You do need to be quite careful if you are employing someone. You are their employer and therefore have exactly the same legal responsibilities as any other employer. Tax, NI, paid holidays, sick leave, pensions.... HMRC following various court cases has made the definition of self-employment much narrower than it was. If a person works all the time for fixed hours with one person, most likely they would be treated as employed whatever you call them. This is prevent unscrupulous employers (and maybe employees) colluding to avoid legitimate tax/NI.

If you want to have someone who is self-employed, and sorts all this themselves, you need to read the HMRC guidance very carefully and make sure that the person you choose has registered themselves as self-employed for tax etc. Otherwise you could be caught out with a big bill later on.

Try this for starters:

https://www.gov.uk/working-for-yourself

 

[Beate]

This might be an obvious question, but has she ever had an assessment by Social Services? She would only need to pay for all her care herself if she was self-funding.

From your previous posts I understand she lives with your family? Why would she need to do her own shopping and cleaning? Of course if you had a regular cleaner that could help the whole family but it's not a paid carer's job to clean. If it's just about keeping her company and giving her food, I think a Day Centre is a better solution, and if she is already going to a Day Centre once a week couldn't she go there the other days as well? I would think that's a hell of a lot cheaper than employing a daytime carer, plus as others have said, you'd have to become a proper employer with NI and tax etc. You really have to go the right way about it or you'll land yourself in trouble.

If Social Services were contributing and you wanted a specific carer, there is the option of Direct Payments, where they cost her needs and give her a personal budget to use. There are charities which can help with the employer situation in that case, because again, that's what you would be.

 

[RaspPav]

Hi Beate

We've had SS in & to be honest they were no help at all. They've just given me a few contacts. What I was expecting was an assessment of mum's needs & how to keep her safe. What I got was a 2hr discussion where mum kept repeating that she can look after herself when she clearly can't. Eventually they did talk her into day care which I've had to organise myself! Mum is self funding. I've tried to phone/email since their visit & have had no response at all!

Yes she lives above us in her own independent dwelling. I work almost full time & have 3 kids. We have a long commute to school so I'm out for a long time. I often don't get home til gone 6 & sometimes we have to stay around the school area for tea to ensbke us to attend a school event which means we don't get home until 8 or 9. I barely have time to do my own cleaning etc I certainly do not have time to do mum's on top of everything else!! I don't have time to take her shopping & she refuses to let me order a weekly shop online which is what I do, she likes to pick her own things.

Although daycare is great it doesn't start until 10 & mum has a habit of going out early into town so the one day she goes I have to work from home & literally sit by my door so I can stop her going out before we need to leave. I cannot do this every day. I don't see how I can work that early part of the day before 10am so that I can get her to daycare? Getting her home from daycare isn't a problem as a community car brings her home. I can't utilise this service in the morning as I've no guarantee mum will wait at home for a lift.

I've been getting regular reports from the carer as to how vulnerable mum is & how much worse her dementia is getting, they've said she's not ready for a home but needs someone with her or there's going to be something dreadful happen. Mum still likes to go out so daycare would take this away from her. I don't have the time to arrange various different things for different days, such as day trips specifically for people with dementia. We can't afford to get a carer in for whole days, it would cost approx around £150 per day.

I'm feeling like there's no hope at the moment & that something dreadful will have to happen before SS takes any notice! She's already tried to walk home along a really busy road & accepted a lift home from a complete stranger & I've informed SS of this but they still haven't returned my calls!

Seems like my only other solution has now been blown out of the water. Why is there no help out there?!

 

[HillyBilly]

There is help out there but, if your Mum is self funding, then it's going to have to be paid for. You might be lucky enough to have a local befriending service but I don't think they will do anything more than sit with your Mum for a couple of hours - it's usually a "hands off" service.

The Lady magazine, Gumtree etc - sources of people advertising their services. As others have already said you do need to be careful re the employment status etc.

Frankly, I think if you're wanting someone reliable and trained who will do the things you need them to do without you directly employing them, then you will need to use an agency and no, agency staff don't come cheap. But it's your Mum's money, not yours, that pays for it and ultimately her money is going to have to be used to pay for her care one way or another.

 

[Hippichic]

Hi Raspav

I have been employing someone to do some 'sitting' with my mother. Although it is funded by the council they have given me direct payments to cover the costs.
I have to employ the person and I have used a payroll agency (recommended by the council).
They deal with a lot of the employment legislation, I also have to have employers liability insurance (council recommended) which seems to cover everything.

Our sitter takes mother for a walk, takes her out for a cuppa and cake at the local park as well as chatting.

It has not been easy to set this up, it is quite complex dealing with the employment side of things, but its not impossible to do, most payroll agencies are very helpful. We get 3 hours a week but it does help.

Hope this helps

 

[Beate]

I hear what you are saying but there comes a time when safety has to override independence. When my OH could no longer be left unsupervised, I aranged Monday to Friday daycare and a sitter being with him every morning until the transport bus turned up, plus a sitter in the evening until I came back from work. This way he was never on his own. You could also arrange a cleaner to clean her flat while she is out, plus arrange the online shopping for an evening time slot when you are at home. With full-time work and looking after someone, something has to give and you (and she) have to make compromises.
This might work out cheaper plus you wouldn't have to become an employer.

SS tend to be hands off when a person is self-funding, but I would call them again and say "you have a duty of care for a vulnerable adult at risk". YOU don't, you can't legally be forced to look after her so if you, as an example took her to A&E and abandoned her there, they would have to look after her. I'm not saying that's what you should or would do, I'm just telling you about their duty. They also have to give you a carers assessment. You are entitled to one by law (Care Act 2014), and finances don't come into it. They also should refer to an OT to check out her place (grabrails etc) and telecare so she could maybe get a tracker. Don't let them underestimate the dangers of wandering - it's a huge risk to her safety.

 

[BJS]

it's quite a mine field. We have just gone from an immensely complicated system of 6 carers covering most of 24 hours to proper agency provided live-ins, working on a 2 week rota. Like others, I have been shocked at how little help we get when SS etc finds we are self-funding. I accept that we do not get financial support but trying to get anything other than a list of tel numbers is hard
So, regarding RaspPav's original query - I would suggest trying an agency and if you live in a convenient area (not like my dad in the back of beyond where carers have to travel all day to reach at our expense!), maybe they can provide a day carer then you wouldn't have to get involved in tax and NI etc
We are only on day 3 on our new arrangement and have to cover 2 hours during the day to give the carer a (much needed) break - try sorting that from 250 miles away! Our care is £90/24 hours plus a weekly payment to agency, plus travel and extra for any night calls. We will have to pay an hourly rate to whoever covers her break in the day

Good luck to you (and to everyone else)

 

[Philbo]

I agree with the situation regarding self-funders and adult social services.

I was talking to a nurse at our GP practice and mentioned my wife's dementia. She stressed the importance of involving SS so I telephoned them.

It wasn't long before they said that a lot depends on whether the PWD is likely to be self funding. When I told them that this would be the case, they very quickly said that if they did carry out any assessments, they would merely signpost what support is available from various companies/organisations, which we would have to choose, organise and of course, pay for!

Around the same time, I got sent something on Facebook, comparing how people needing care etc, are treated in comparison to someone in prison. Who says "crime doesn't pay"!!!

Phil