Can anyone help clarify a legal situation.

[maximus1958]

Hi, I have an LPA on my mums financial matters, I do not have an LPA on her health.
I took the Financial LPA (FLPA) because mom started to lose money, credit and debit cards and signing up with these charities that approached her in the street. I also did it because I was concerned that in her vulnerable state someone could get her to sign over her house or change her will.

I now believe that the FPLA does not actually protect her from being able to sign deeds and wills without my presence or guidance and therefore she could possibly be duped out of her house and home.

First question, is this true and second if the FPLA does not give protection against this is there something else I should be doing to get this protection.

Before anyone thinks I am doing this to protect my inheritance, its not the case, Mom is at the stage where she is getting confused about men, thinking that they are her husband (dad died in 2001) and most recently, two days ago, a boyfriend who she loves and is about to come and live with her. So in fact moms house will be needed to pay for her care at some point as I live several hours away.

So it is a genuine concern if the FPLA does not offer any protection in these matters.

 

[Beate]

An attorney can not interfere with wills or sign them for a person like they could sign for other things, as it's not seen as a financial product but an expression of someone's personal opinions and choices, and while someone has mental capacity they can make any will they wish. However, if you think she has lost capacity then any will or change of existing will or signing over of deeds would not be valid. Would she be able still to get herself to a solicitor to make a will? Have you got specific concerns about this new boyfriend?
If she signed over her house now and then needed care shortly after, the LA would class this as deprivation of assets and demand the property to be taken back or the money to be paid in other ways anyway.

So it all boils down to whether she still has capacity or not, because once she's lost it she can't make such changes anymore and you have every right to protect her from someone else trying it on.

 

[Bunpoots]

You don't have to go to a solicitor to change a will. My brother took his own solicitor to my dads house to change his will. Dad wasn't happy and whittled about it for ages so eventually I took him back to his own solicitor to change it to equal shares which was what dad wanted.

So I assume anyone could take a solicitor to to home of a vulnerable person and it might not be found out until it was too late.


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[canary]

Im busy doing probate for mum and one of the things specifically stated in the probate is whether there is dispute over a will and if it was done when they didnt have capacity then it is invalid. So even if he does change his will and/or sign over the deeds of his property you can dispute it on the grounds that he did not have the capacity to fully understand the decision.

 

[maximus1958]

Thanks for the replies, it is as I thought regarding the capacity. But who defines whether they have the capacity. The reason I took on the FPLA and justified it was because mom was doing strange things with her money, ie losing it, putting it in strange places forgetting it, carrying large amounts around with her and as I said signing up direct debits for numerous charities. So I believe she had/has lost the mental capacity, but I am not a qualified medical person.

She has been diagnosed with dementia, the memory clinic has put her on drugs for it and they recognise she gets confused but no one has "ticked a box" stating she has not got capacity.

Does a solicitor not have to evaluate the client in front of them before doing anything, or do they just take the money.?

 

[Pollytickle]

My sister & I have the Everlasting version of PoA which at the time was the all-singing, bells-&-whistles Power of Attorny.

Does anyone know how that will work now, given the changes & the fact Mum is no longer enough of sound mind to write another.

Thanks.

 

[lemonjuice]

My sister & I have the Everlasting version of PoA which at the time was the all-singing, bells-&-whistles Power of Attorny.

Does anyone know how that will work now, given the changes & the fact Mum is no longer enough of sound mind to write another.

Thanks.

We have the 'old style EPAs. My mother's was activated when she entered the NH without any problems.

 

[Roseleigh]

a boyfriend who she loves and is about to come and live with her

This sounds very ominous. Who would choose to get into a relationship with someone who has dementia?

Your mum is very vulnerable alone and so far away. Could she move to sheltered accomodation near you?

 

[Roseleigh]

Thanks for the replies, it is as I thought regarding the capacity. But who defines whether they have the capacity. The reason I took on the FPLA and justified it was because mom was doing strange things with her money, ie losing it, putting it in strange places forgetting it, carrying large amounts around with her and as I said signing up direct debits for numerous charities. So I believe she had/has lost the mental capacity, but I am not a qualified medical person.

She has been diagnosed with dementia, the memory clinic has put her on drugs for it and they recognise she gets confused but no one has "ticked a box" stating she has not got capacity.

Does a solicitor not have to evaluate the client in front of them before doing anything, or do they just take the money.?

My husbands GP certified him as having sufficient capacity. Can be solicitor, GP, or even a friend (but not family). I think its quite a responsibility to put on a friend, but some might be happy to do it.

 

[Fullticket]

The boyfriend situation rang huge bells with me. When I took over mum's finances I not only found 5 Sky box insurances (she didn't have Sky!), cheques written for prize draws, subscriptions to charities, etc. etc. I also 'found' the boyfriend. He was (is) the same age as my partner so 20-odd years younger than mum, and was (is) a driver - i.e. he drove a lot of old ladies around. He virtually moved into her house and took huge amounts of cash and valuables. She drew down on the value of her house and paid for his son's wedding, a new car for him, a holiday, etc. I was alerted by a friend that she was thinking of putting her house on the market and using the proceeds to buy a camper van and go off around Europe with him. Of course he is a married man and I don't doubt he has done this many times before, probably in collusion with his wife.

He is now a thing of the past thanks to my partner giving him his marching orders. Mum still remembers him (she can't remember my dad's name but she still remembers the gentleman we fondly call the slime ball). Nothing the Police could do as she had given him the money etc. willingly. All we could do is inform the Police and so they have the info on record in case/when he does it again.

We got her to redo her will after his departure as I had found details of a solicitor near the slime ball's home town and we think there is probably a will in his favour. We'll wait and see... maybe he's like to contribute to her care home fees because that is where the money will go. I'll invoice him for any top up fees.

 

[maximus1958]

This sounds very ominous. Who would choose to get into a relationship with someone who has dementia?

Your mum is very vulnerable alone and so far away. Could she move to sheltered accomodation near you?

Hi, I have been avoiding a care home as mum still has a certain amount of independence and sufficient capacity to know she does not want to go into a home. To be honest we have used this to get her to accept carers coming into the home i.e. its this or a home. I haven't looked into sheltered accommodation, I wasn't aware you could do this if you own your own home. I don't want to put her in a Mcarthy stone ? type of home as my experience of these places has not been the best.

 

[maximus1958]

My husbands GP certified him as having sufficient capacity. Can be solicitor, GP, or even a friend (but not family). I think its quite a responsibility to put on a friend, but some might be happy to do it.

Hi Roseleigh,

Did you mean the GP certified him as NOT having capacity.

So is there a second step I should take now I have the LPA, do I need a further document from someone to state she no longer has the capacity to deal with any of her financial affairs capacity at all any more?

 

[jugglingmum]

To answer your last point - my mum is in sheltered extra care - this is a step up from sheltered - in that carers are on site and a lunchtime restaurant and it is with a housing assocaition but not means tested.

Provision does vary around the country.

She bought a shared ownership flat, there were also outright sale available, which they resell on your behalf, but the one available, whilst lovely was too far from the restaurant for my mum to walk easily on a bad day.

I moved my mum near me as I couldn't have coped with dealing with everything from a distance.

Have a look at this website - I think it lists all schemes and you can select sheltered or extra care etc - both mcarthy and stone type and housing assoc/LA are listed - I used it to locate places for my mum both near me and near where she was(as initially we thought it would be best for her to stay there).

http://www.housingcare.org/housing-care/search.aspx

Moving my mum near me and getting her into sheltered extra care have been fantastic decisions, and I can't praise where my mum is highly enough - I realise they aren't all this good.

Dementia needs to be one step ahead, my mum probably wouldn't have coped in sheltered with carers but she has settled in well where she is and will stay there for longer before a care home than if she'd gone to sheltered.

 

[Billy's Girl]

Legal query

My husband has been diagnosed end of life and has been fast tracked dating from 10 March. I was told the NHS was fully funding everything now. Should I be still handing over his Government Pension? It is paid into his bank and I have POA and have settled his bills in the past but stopped paying now. However I have just received an invoice from the care home relating to approximately the amount he receives in Government Pension,

 

[fortune]

In answer to the question of who decides if the PWD has capacity - in my experience the safest bet is to take specialist medical advice. With a very unsupportive family (to put it mildly) I and the other attorney had a letter from the GP and a full assessment from consultant psychiatrist and a letter from memory clinic nurse. Once the PWD has been assessed as having lost capacity that is the point at which the attorney should actively take over finances eg contact banks etc, register the PoA with them and, generally, from that point on the PWD can no longer execute any financial decisions. If the medical evidence is strong there is little likelihood of any grey areas where someone might argue the person has capacity. The consultant was very clear in his report and this was very helpful to us. I've read on this forum statements to the effect that as long as the PWD understands at the moment of decision what they are doing then that is OK. This is not the advice that I was given by the Office of the Public Guardian, which was that the person must be able to remember what they have done and also must be able to understand the implications of the decision for the future eg if they sell their house then they would need to find somewhere else to live etc.

 

[cragmaid]

My husband has been diagnosed end of life and has been fast tracked dating from 10 March. I was told the NHS was fully funding everything now. Should I be still handing over his Government Pension? It is paid into his bank and I have POA and have settled his bills in the past but stopped paying now. However I have just received an invoice from the care home relating to approximately the amount he receives in Government Pension,

Billys Girl, I'm not sure but I think that you still need to pay OH's state pension into the fees pot. After all, otherwise it is taking one piece of funding from the local funding to pay another bit. If you understand what I mean.

However, you might get a clearer answer if you would like to start a separate thread, where readers can see your question by iteself.

 

[nitram]

"Should I be still handing over his Government Pension? It is paid into his bank and I have POA and have settled his bills in the past but stopped paying now. However I have just received an invoice from the care home relating to approximately the amount he receives in Government Pension,"

With CHC funding the person retains their state pension, the situation for somebody in a nursing home is broadly analogous to a hospital stay and the same rules apply about loss of benefits after 28 days.

If the invoice covers the time during which he was CHC funded you should not pay it. Legally top up are not allowed when CHC funded although this law is being avoided in some cases by various arguments.

 

[The mont]

No. The pension is ur husbands/And Yours... SPEND IT.

 

[The mont]

CARE TO BE DIFFERENT website

EXCELLANT ADVISE BY ANGELA

 

[maximus1958]

To answer your last point - my mum is in sheltered extra care - this is a step up from sheltered - in that carers are on site and a lunchtime restaurant and it is with a housing assocaition but not means tested.

Provision does vary around the country.

She bought a shared ownership flat, there were also outright sale available, which they resell on your behalf, but the one available, whilst lovely was too far from the restaurant for my mum to walk easily on a bad day.

I moved my mum near me as I couldn't have coped with dealing with everything from a distance.

Have a look at this website - I think it lists all schemes and you can select sheltered or extra care etc - both mcarthy and stone type and housing assoc/LA are listed - I used it to locate places for my mum both near me and near where she was(as initially we thought it would be best for her to stay there).

http://www.housingcare.org/housing-care/search.aspx

Moving my mum near me and getting her into sheltered extra care have been fantastic decisions, and I can't praise where my mum is highly enough - I realise they aren't all this good.

Dementia needs to be one step ahead, my mum probably wouldn't have coped in sheltered with carers but she has settled in well where she is and will stay there for longer before a care home than if she'd gone to sheltered.

Thanks I will look into this