Advice urgently needed please.

[Ronnianne]

Apologies for this long post. M husband went into respite care for the first time yesterday as I have health problems that have flared up. He has never been disruptive, or violent, it's simply he needs 24 hour assistance with everything, from dressing and toileting, to eating. Today I've had a call from the care home, saying he had become 'troublesome' and disruptive and they couldn't cope, then the social worker rang to say they had called the mental health nurse to sedate him, which I'm not happy about, and if the sedative needs to be stronger, then they want to move him to a psychiatric unit for a full mental health assessment. Cn they do this without my permission? And has anyone else had this happen. What was the outcome. Thanks in advance

 

[marionq]

I know this is upsetting for you but they don't move people lightly and an assessment may help you too in the long run. If your health is a problem at present you will probably have to go along with this.

 

[Ronnianne]

I know this is upsetting for you but they don't move people lightly and an assessment may help you too in the long run. If your health is a problem at present you will probably have to go along with this.

Thank you. I think it's simply because we've never been apart in the 50 years we've been married, but nobody is listening

 

[Trisha4]

How awful for you. I don't know the answer to your question but it doesn't sound as if they should be able to do that without your permission but they could ask you to take him elsewhere. I have recently started my husband at day care in a care home and we are going to try him having a couple of nights respite next week for the first time. Our community psychiatric nurse suggested I look at this home because of their ability to deal with people with dementia. They take in people other homes get rid off. Hopefully someone with greater knowledge than me will give you the legal answer.


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[Ronnianne]

How awful for you. I don't know the answer to your question but it doesn't sound as if they should be able to do that without your permission but they could ask you to take him elsewhere. I have recently started my husband at day care in a care home and we are going to try him having a couple of nights respite next week for the first time. Our community psychiatric nurse suggested I look at this home because of their ability to deal with people with dementia. They take in people other homes get rid off. Hopefully someone with greater knowledge than me will give you the legal answer.


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Thank you so much. My husband has been attending the day centre at the home for a while, and we thought he would settle better there with it being familiar. This disease is heartbreaking

 

[Kevinl]

They can do it without your permission by sectioning him is the short answer, section 2 or 3 of the Mental Health Act is the normal, however, they do like the next of kin to agree where possible.
People have a thing about secure units, assessment units and the like, but my wife spent 7 months in one and it was the best thing that ever happened for her.
The staff were incredible, almost daily sessions with; psychologists, occupational therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, consultants you name it, it was the only time anyone spent any time looking at the nature of her issues unlike the cursory interest the memory clinic took.
Why would you not want him to have a "full mental health assessment"?
The only thing I would say is that people tend to be in there for a while, in the 7 months my wife was in there some came and went quite quickly but many were in the for months rather than weeks, it depends how long it takes to get someone stable and on the best medication which can take time.
K

 

[Trisha4]

Totally heartbreaking and cruel. I'm following the same logic as you that husband should settle better in a familiar place. It's 47 years for us. Hugs from me x


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[sue38]

Although your husband has never been disruptive or violent before, a change of environment can be very unsettling and can cause behaviour that seems out of character. My mum presented extremely well at one time, but lasted no more than 24 hours in respite as she became distressed and violent. 2 hours after bringing her home she was back to herself.

If you have health problems of your own you are going to need periods of respite for your husband, and it may be that he will need medication to help the staff deal with him if he becomes violent. If he becomes a danger to himself or other then he may be sectioned under the Mental Health Act, and that would be the decision of a mental health professional.

This factsheet https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/downl...e_mental_health_act_1983_and_guardianship.pdf may help.

 

[Ronnianne]

They can do it without your permission by sectioning him is the short answer, section 2 or 3 of the Mental Health Act is the normal, however, they do like the next of kin to agree where possible.
People have a thing about secure units, assessment units and the like, but my wife spent 7 months in one and it was the best thing that ever happened for her.
The staff were incredible, almost daily sessions with; psychologists, occupational therapists, psychiatrists, doctors, consultants you name it, it was the only time anyone spent any time looking at the nature of her issues unlike the cursory interest the memory clinic took.
Why would you not want him to have a "full mental health assessment"?
The only thing I would say is that people tend to be in there for a while, in the 7 months my wife was in there some came and went quite quickly but many were in the for months rather than weeks, it depends how long it takes to get someone stable and on the best medication which can take time.
K

Thanks for that, but I simply think he wants to come home, he's never been violent or aggressive, and the home won't let me go and see him. He was evaluated a couple of months ago, and they were certain he needed no change of meds, and that everything was as it should be given the nature of Alz

 

[DonnaJay]

Ronnianne

Apologies for this long post. M husband went into respite care for the first time yesterday as I have health problems that have flared up. He has never been disruptive, or violent, it's simply he needs 24 hour assistance with everything, from dressing and toileting, to eating. Today I've had a call from the care home, saying he had become 'troublesome' and disruptive and they couldn't cope, then the social worker rang to say they had called the mental health nurse to sedate him, which I'm not happy about, and if the sedative needs to be stronger, then they want to move him to a psychiatric unit for a full mental health assessment. Cn they do this without my permission? And has anyone else had this happen. What was the outcome. Thanks in advance

I think this is where the medical Power of Attorney comes in without it once a patient is in the medical care it is difficult for family to have a say If the medical people think they wish to keep a patient in their care.

 

[Ronnianne]

Although your husband has never been disruptive or violent before, a change of environment can be very unsettling and can cause behaviour that seems out of character. My mum presented extremely well at one time, but lasted no more than 24 hours in respite as she became distressed and violent. 2 hours after bringing her home she was back to herself.

If you have health problems of your own you are going to need periods of respite for your husband, and it may be that he will need medication to help the staff deal with him if he becomes violent. If he becomes a danger to himself or other then he may be sectioned under the Mental Health Act, and that would be the decision of a mental health professional.

This factsheet https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/downl...e_mental_health_act_1983_and_guardianship.pdf may help.

Thank you for clarifying, very helpful

 

[Kevinl]

I think this is where the medical Power of Attorney comes in without it once a patient is in the medical care it is difficult for family to have a say If the medical people think they wish to keep a patient in their care.

Sadly not, if they section someone the POA isn't much use nor is being next of kin.
If the medics decide a certain course of action is in the patients best interests or it's an issue that they are a danger to themselves or others then they can do it. Even a person with capacity can be sectioned and treated against their wishes, usually when it's a mental health problem or substance abuse are the issue.
The NHS don't want people in their care unless it's strictly necessary it costs a fortune, they only do it when it is in the best interests of the patient.
K