Another enough day...

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Spotted JorgiePorgie's thread that sounded so apt as did LucyHP's but didn't want to step on anyone's toes as not been here for a few years even though have hit many levels of enough over the years, today is another enough day. I suppose I am just venting for the sake of catharsis so replies entirely optional. Do people have to warn about possible trigger on this forum? Hopefully the mods will advise.

Carer for parents of 80+, dad showing signs of undiagnosed AD but mobile, mother is well but less mobile.

Over the past few years, episodes of bad mouthing, swearing, verbal putdowns, talking to self at various times of day, night - 1-5am. Does very little, eats a lot, sleeps, gambles, mouth never stops with toxic comments however trivial. Used to be twice a year to once quarterly at most, but now a several times daily.

He was awake at 5.55am and started swearing and bad mouthing me out loud from his bed, despite mum trying to sleep. No regard for anyone trying to sleep. I best describe his AD as like an elastic band that slowly stretches during sleep. Gradually being stretched until he wakes and then before he has even reached half way down the stairs, the toxic begins. Then after a while after breakfast once that energy has been released, humming or singing as though nothing has happened. Used to only happen once a month but now it is several times a day. Morning, noon and night in between periods of intentional noise, excessive bashing of utensils, furniture, anything he can move he moves with as much noise - if he's awake then everyone else should be.

This morning after months of relentless verbal, I argued back. I know, I know. I shouldn't have. I have ignored it for such a long time. How many times can you hear it before your own sanity is in shreds? He was so vicious, frothing at the mouth, fingers and pointing and sheer ferociousness, the look of a rabid dog.

I merely asked why the h does he always constantly bad mouthing me. I've never said a bad word to him, never argue, provide everything the house needs while he waits on like a lord. If looks could kill. The fact that I think the brain does not know what his mouth is doing, he avoided the question repeatedly and started dragging out events from the archives 10+ years about trivial things to avoid the question of why I am this, that and the other. I don't think he knows, hence not having an answer to my question. Poor mum. I'm always constantly reminding her not to take the bait whenever he is trying to pick and argument with her, and then I do the opposite.

I admire my mum's strength and resolve. She has put up with it for a long time and she remains conditioned and calm. So much easier than me. Many years of wisdom and thick skin I guess.

Needless to say he will be fine for a bit until bedtime or early hours when seemingly a synapse will fire and he will replay an event in time over and over again in bed. I thought the evening episodes could be sundowning perhaps, something I read the definition of recently. I doesn't really apply in the daytime so that could be easily dismissed during the daytime. Fast forward an hour, singing and humming like nothing has happened.

OK, you're probably thinking why undiagnosed? You wouldn't be first to ask.

The GPs have conducted a memory test a while ago and he's fine with those types of questions such as what day is it and what did you have for breakfast. When he is out he puts on such a false nice persona. Lots of fake smiles and praise. Behind closed doors, very temperamental and verbally toxic.

Considering his age, he goes out and meets his usual crowd and have a flutter. That's all he knows and all he does. He never shops for anything, I do that with or without my mum. All the food is always in, all the bills are sorted. All he does was mentioned in para.2.

You're probably also thinking any respite? No. None whatsoever. Well maybe when he does out, you could say that is respite. I did have an appt with carers centre and was told after a long chat and a breakdown that they didn't think they need to see me again. That was about 8 years ago I think. Things may have changed since then but I think you can only start helping once that person has acknowledged there's a illness. He doesn't see or think so.
My respite is my room. End of. When you look after two people, there is no respite. Not like if you were only looking after one.

There are other siblings, but they know all about his behviour and very rarely come at all unless they know when he is out. Thankfully nieces and nephews, however young have heard about AD so they know why he is socially and emotionally detached.

I have always said throughout all these years of caring and going from well paid full time job to just only CA that this was the path I have chosen to look after my parents. I knew his AD was bad but it was only occasional. Very regularly is an entirely different matter and today was that 'had enough day' point. I also have said consistently that once my job was done to the best of my ability, I would check out. I have lost so much over the years. Social life, relationships, job, income, interaction, freedom. It's like sugar coated domestic abuse but almost like just because it is AD it is acceptable. Remove that AD tag and it's downright abuse. Isn't it?

He has a GP appt next week after he had to go for bloods few weeks ago. That was a miracle as he usually is very non-compliant. Very reactive and 0% proactive when it comes to his meds. Very 'I'm not in pain therefore I won't take' Then when he is in a bad way, he says the GPs are useless and amateur, the meds are rubbish because they don't work overnight.
I can assure you he will be all smiles while he is there. As soon as he returns to the front door, the expletives will start behind closed doors.

Today I easily could have checked out. Period. The selfish peace and solitude. A way out from Groundhog Day. Never having to worry about the tiredness. The lack of sleep. The anxiety attacks.
I've waded through worse. Maybe I can carry on a bit longer. Just a bit more.

I could go on but have tea to cook tea for them while head and eyelids keep trying to nod me off. If only he could comprehend the phrase 'don't bite the hand that feeds you'.
 

Tin

Registered User
May 18, 2014
4,820
0
UK
Just amazing that you have put up with all that for so long. In a very weird way, it makes my caring for mum who has been diagnosed with Vascular Dementia, seem so much easier. So sad that it is so hard for you. Good to see you are posting again.
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Hi Tin, appreciate your comments and I hope your caring is comfortable as it can be. I'm surprised myself I have managed this far and for the sake of my mum, I never speak out for fear of distressing her. It's bad enough she has to endure it too at her age and health, let alone anyone young and healthy.

I think it's slowly been chipping away at the armour over the years and the increased relentlessness. You can only ignore insults and keep reminding yourself that it's a condition and not an insult for so long.

When you do all you can to look after your own the best you can, giving up work and a life, you're meant to feel you're doing all you can to make them comfortable in their old age. I did for a good while until the insults started daily. Home is meant to be a sanctuary but when that's no longer that, it's a struggle.

I'm only CA for my mum so he and his condition doesn't even come into the equation, not that I do it for the peanuts, I did it as I feel it a responsibility of mine as I'm youngest and non of the other siblings would contemplate being in the same house as him...

Can only plod on and see. Will have to book an appt for myself as I feel myself spiralling if it carries on much longer. I've no doubt the GP will give him the all clear after seeing his personable facade...
 

mab

Registered User
Mar 6, 2010
198
0
Surrey
Today I easily could have checked out. Period. The selfish peace and solitude. A way out from Groundhog Day. Never having to worry about the tiredness. The lack of sleep. The anxiety attacks.
I've waded through worse. Maybe I can carry on a bit longer. Just a bit more.

InElysium, this worries me so much. You cannot carry on this way and risk another breakdown. What you're suffering is unacceptable.
Time for action and first off has to be a letter to your father's GP, in advance of his appointment next week. All the worrying details should be there and the GP will know what to look out for when your father attends.

Please take care of yourself first and foremost. You don't deserve this. x
 

Marcelle123

Registered User
Nov 9, 2015
4,865
0
Yorkshire
InElysium, I can only echo mab's post. You are a good person & have done so much for your parents - but you have to think about yourself. You don't want your health to break down. Please take care of yourself. xx
 

Rosnpton

Registered User
Mar 19, 2017
394
0
Northants
Hi
You sound worn out. That's not surprising reading what you have been managing for so long.
Can you go to your own dr.about your own health? Maybe they can help with referrals and support for your parents to help give you a few hours break. Would you able to get them into respite for a few days so you can have a complete break and recharge your batteries?
If you get too run down,you won't be able to function as their carer. Dementia is a rotten illness-my dr.,when I was discussing mums az and that I wasn't coping etc,said that depending on the area of the brain affected,the patients restraint or filter to what is ok,gets switched off. Mum will rant and rave,but also very calmly tell me how much she hates me/ I've always been such a disappointment to her/ wishes I'd died etc etc etc.this is her real feelings from many years (she only wanted a son,never a daughter)the only way I deal with it,is that when she is 'going off on one' is to look passed her at whatever is behingpd her-wall,window etc- and just smile whilst counting slowly back from 100. If I can manage not to react or respond,she seems to stop quicker.maybe a reaction is required,and if she doesn't get one,runs out of steam.
I also try and do one small thing for me everyday .a cuppa and biscuit in garden, watch some mindless tv.that doesn't need me to concentrate,a bubble bath etc.
Try and have a rest.you do deserve a life of your own.
Ros

Pp
Spotted JorgiePorgie's thread that sounded so apt as did LucyHP's but didn't want to step on anyone's toes as not been here for a few years even though have hit many levels of enough over the years, today is another enough day. I suppose I am just venting for the sake of catharsis so replies entirely optional. Do people have to warn about possible trigger on this forum? Hopefully the mods will advise.

Carer for parents of 80+, dad showing signs of undiagnosed AD but mobile, mother is well but less mobile.

Over the past few years, episodes of bad mouthing, swearing, verbal putdowns, talking to self at various times of day, night - 1-5am. Does very little, eats a lot, sleeps, gambles, mouth never stops with toxic comments however trivial. Used to be twice a year to once quarterly at most, but now a several times daily.

He was awake at 5.55am and started swearing and bad mouthing me out loud from his bed, despite mum trying to sleep. No regard for anyone trying to sleep. I best describe his AD as like an elastic band that slowly stretches during sleep. Gradually being stretched until he wakes and then before he has even reached half way down the stairs, the toxic begins. Then after a while after breakfast once that energy has been released, humming or singing as though nothing has happened. Used to only happen once a month but now it is several times a day. Morning, noon and night in between periods of intentional noise, excessive bashing of utensils, furniture, anything he can move he moves with as much noise - if he's awake then everyone else should be.

This morning after months of relentless verbal, I argued back. I know, I know. I shouldn't have. I have ignored it for such a long time. How many times can you hear it before your own sanity is in shreds? He was so vicious, frothing at the mouth, fingers and pointing and sheer ferociousness, the look of a rabid dog.

I merely asked why the h does he always constantly bad mouthing me. I've never said a bad word to him, never argue, provide everything the house needs while he waits on like a lord. If looks could kill. The fact that I think the brain does not know what his mouth is doing, he avoided the question repeatedly and started dragging out events from the archives 10+ years about trivial things to avoid the question of why I am this, that and the other. I don't think he knows, hence not having an answer to my question. Poor mum. I'm always constantly reminding her not to take the bait whenever he is trying to pick and argument with her, and then I do the opposite.

I admire my mum's strength and resolve. She has put up with it for a long time and she remains conditioned and calm. So much easier than me. Many years of wisdom and thick skin I guess.

Needless to say he will be fine for a bit until bedtime or early hours when seemingly a synapse will fire and he will replay an event in time over and over again in bed. I thought the evening episodes could be sundowning perhaps, something I read the definition of recently. I doesn't really apply in the daytime so that could be easily dismissed during the daytime. Fast forward an hour, singing and humming like nothing has happened.

OK, you're probably thinking why undiagnosed? You wouldn't be first to ask.

The GPs have conducted a memory test a while ago and he's fine with those types of questions such as what day is it and what did you have for breakfast. When he is out he puts on such a false nice persona. Lots of fake smiles and praise. Behind closed doors, very temperamental and verbally toxic.

Considering his age, he goes out and meets his usual crowd and have a flutter. That's all he knows and all he does. He never shops for anything, I do that with or without my mum. All the food is always in, all the bills are sorted. All he does was mentioned in para.2.

You're probably also thinking any respite? No. None whatsoever. Well maybe when he does out, you could say that is respite. I did have an appt with carers centre and was told after a long chat and a breakdown that they didn't think they need to see me again. That was about 8 years ago I think. Things may have changed since then but I think you can only start helping once that person has acknowledged there's a illness. He doesn't see or think so.
My respite is my room. End of. When you look after two people, there is no respite. Not like if you were only looking after one.

There are other siblings, but they know all about his behviour and very rarely come at all unless they know when he is out. Thankfully nieces and nephews, however young have heard about AD so they know why he is socially and emotionally detached.

I have always said throughout all these years of caring and going from well paid full time job to just only CA that this was the path I have chosen to look after my parents. I knew his AD was bad but it was only occasional. Very regularly is an entirely different matter and today was that 'had enough day' point. I also have said consistently that once my job was done to the best of my ability, I would check out. I have lost so much over the years. Social life, relationships, job, income, interaction, freedom. It's like sugar coated domestic abuse but almost like just because it is AD it is acceptable. Remove that AD tag and it's downright abuse. Isn't it?

He has a GP appt next week after he had to go for bloods few weeks ago. That was a miracle as he usually is very non-compliant. Very reactive and 0% proactive when it comes to his meds. Very 'I'm not in pain therefore I won't take' Then when he is in a bad way, he says the GPs are useless and amateur, the meds are rubbish because they don't work overnight.
I can assure you he will be all smiles while he is there. As soon as he returns to the front door, the expletives will start behind closed doors.

Today I easily could have checked out. Period. The selfish peace and solitude. A way out from Groundhog Day. Never having to worry about the tiredness. The lack of sleep. The anxiety attacks.
I've waded through worse. Maybe I can carry on a bit longer. Just a bit more.

I could go on but have tea to cook tea for them while head and eyelids keep trying to nod me off. If only he could comprehend the phrase 'don't bite the hand that feeds you'.
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Thank you Mab and Marcelle for the kind words. It brings tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat to hear someone worries about me. First time in a very long time. It wasn't my intention to cause worry, I was just offloading mind to keyboard so whatever that came out is raw and cathartic.

I have spoken to the GP before and he knows about his verbal outbursts and behaviour and how non-compliant my dad is and how reactive his med taking is, or rather isn't. I even said to the GP if anything happened to him, I don't want the blame if he isn't taking the meds (for other ailments, not for AD since that's not officially diagnosed or if it will be). GP says oh you won't get the blame, you can't force him to take them, he's his own self. GP also said a while ago, don't order his meds if he isn't using them regularly.

I know what some GPs are like, they're busy and short for time and it's not something a memory test will reveal. You would need big brother house cameras to see his true behaviour. In other ways too, GPs also take on face value what other family members say that may be of detriment to the patient, eg lies and ulterior motives etc, try and separate the good families from the evil families...

Funny enough, in the heat of the argument he kept saying we all wanted him to die so we could have peace. We've never said that, it is always been his woe is me mind accusing us of thinking it. I said if I did, why would I be ordering your repeats and collecting them from chemist and booking all the appts and taking him to them whenever he's unwell?! He's the one not helping himself by being non-compliant. I think he changed the topic to avoid answering and brought up an old broken table from 10 years ago that he wanted and shouldn't have been thrown. What?!?! Where did that come from? Talk about tangents.

I know I'm slowly spiralling and not afraid to say I am, probably a good thing rather than deny and bottle it up. Will try and get a telephone consult tomorrow as the routine appts are all gone until May at the earliest. If they deem it urgent they will call me in for an emergency appt at the end of normal surgery for a chat so I can explain what has happened and no doubt break down. Last thing I want are anti-d's or sectioned - I've still got to look after both. GP really needs to know first and foremost not to make any suggestions that he has a condition. Given his self-righteous pride and paranoia, he will think we're conspiring with the GP. In view of that, there's very little I think that will change things but will see what happens over the appts and next few days. If only his memory did erase the argument today but I know he can replay certain episodes for days and weeks so while everyone else has moved on, he is still reliving it. Some other event needs to overwrite this one...

On the other hand Mum is the sensible compliant one and I quietly wade through the flak for her sake so she doesn't get distressed if she sees me distressed. She knows how frequent his behaviour has become but seems happy (or easier life) to ignore it than to identify, diagnose and 'treat' it. Loyal I suspect. Can't be suggesting and aiding a diagnosis detrimental to his self-righteous pride and ego no matter how stressful and obvious it may be. Any suggestion from the GP that I have indicated AD will result in him coming back frothing at the mouth like a wolf. He's never raised a hand but I really thought and maybe wished he did.

Hey ho.
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Thanks Ros, I took a while composing my war and peace there, I only just saw yours. Sorry to hear about you and yours. I do have a few techniques that have been used repeatedly over the years but I think they all become less effective, a bit like antibiotic resistance but more distraction resistant!

Usually I just go to my room and watch tv on on the net etc as I still have to be on hand for my mum otherwise I would just go somewhere far. My mum would feel responsible for feeding him and struggle with shopping and heavy bags etc. Despite being less mobile than he is, he will hardly lift a finger. He just has no consideration at all for her well being or her sleep. He only looks after himself. He's also old fashioned so there's that 'wife serves me' mentality. Stuck in the middle ages.

I think every other symptom I can cope with but I think today was the last straw of relentless insults and small snide remarks and being called illegitimate (which I'm not as he is on the birth certificate). That's funny considering that if he knew what he was calling me, then it is more of an insult to himself as he's saying I'm not. Many a times I felt like saying great thanks, that means you're not mine! See if he twigs!

Probably worn too, having about 3 hours sleep most days for the past week. I shouldn't really be functioning at all so might just be running on adrenaline. Goodness knows what he will be like later tonight. He has a ritual every night before bed, broadcasting his intent to go to bed, a lot of pot and pan shuffling to sound busy and useful, a lot of heavy stomping around from room to room, come up, see if mum has slept or not, make a bit more noise to try and wake her, then if today's argument has had any effect - more bad mouthing from his bed or he may have his tail between his legs tonight but then wake up early and bad mouth from his bed... Regular as clockwork...

Appreciate your kind comments. Take care all too. Sorry all if it's all me me me. I suppose all the writings act like an incident diary so at least it's here for future reference if ever I need it.
 
Last edited:

mab

Registered User
Mar 6, 2010
198
0
Surrey
Just a quick PS here. When you phone tomorrow asking for an appointment, emphasize that you CANNOT cope with the present situation, that you have gone beyond the end of your tether and that you desperately need some help.
It worked for me! The GP jumped into action! (Or was I just lucky?)
Let us know how you get on. Good luck. x
 

Oh Knickers

Registered User
Nov 19, 2016
500
0
InElysium,
How are you coping with the lack of sleep let alone the nastiness!

I think it is time to take some serious action. You and your mum are sounding vulnerable. It must also be exhausting to deal with. It sounds as though you are trying to cope in the middle of a war zone. As it has crept up on you now no longer know what normal is as you have so much adrenaline pumping around to cope.

Consider what has been suggested. Tell the GP as a matter of urgency.

Other actions you could consider.

Contact the following who will be able to guide you and support you:

Alzheimer's Society

www.alzheimers.org.uk

The main number is at the top. Scroll down and put your postcode in and the local office number will come in. They will know how things work locally and will be able to advise you.

Age UK
http://www.ageuk.org.uk/?gclid=Cj0K...Op8A96vaj2eN-y1YB7v4QaAqWS8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

Ditto.

Bizarrely, what your Dad is exhibiting to others is what is called 'hostess' mode.

Please let us know how you get on.
 

cragmaid

Registered User
Oct 18, 2010
7,936
0
North East England
Hi. Can you drive and do you have access to a car? Failing a car, could you and your Mum manage a train journey or a taxi ride? If yes.... then why don't you and she go away for two or three days. If Dad can manage to go to the Bookies and meet his mates, he can manage to look after himself for a weekend.

You and she need to get away from the poison to be able to breathe and sleep.
The longer you stay in the cloud, the worse your health will be.
Please think about it.
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Glad restore auto save restored some of my post, but only half but not all. Probably won't be as raw second time of composing. Should have typed in notepad first... Wish I could have remembered it all, it's a surprise I even found the restore saved option. Apologies if it is fragmented anywhere.

Thanks Mab, OhKnicks and CragMaid. Really appreciate your words, they mean a lot when nowhere else to turn.

Yesterday was surprisingly and unsurprisingly uneventful. He got up, made breakfast, sat in the living room watched tv, perhaps maybe one brief mutter under his breath but virtually quiet. I did lunch and he had that and went on his merry way. Virtually quiet evening and night too. Did the tea and he had that, settled in front of tv and then bed.

Come 3am this morning, he had a brief outburst and decided to heavy footedly stomp down the stairs as loud as he could, waking me and my mum. I could hear my mum murmuring and stirring being disturbed and woken from deep sleep. I'm sure he must have took a jumping leap judging by the sound of things. This coming from an 80+yo with chronic ailments... He could have missed a step and fell down the stairs, although there is a handrail for my mum so probably had support.

At that point my head felt like it was in a vice. Desperation of nothing I could do, no escape, no sanctuary and no validation of the extent of things. 3am - Only Samaritans was 24/7 but somehow I didn't feel that would help to blubber down to. NHS Helpline perhaps. Nope.

I know I keep harping on about validation and perhaps I have mentioned having a voice recorder in previous posts. I so much want a sanity check and that is why I long for medical validation as it goes unwitnessed. There is no doubt there's a problem, yet I still need someone to say yes it is.

Thankfully after that one episode, he returned up to bed in a normal manner and slept again until 4.45am and 7ish in which he woke again for toilet but those subsequent times he went and returned normally without incident. Enforced my elastic band theory a little bit.

I think I managed to drift in and out of consciousness and woke up dripping wet from the anxiety and palms were clammy. I had to phone the GPs so that I could get seen. It's one of those surgeries where you have to be dialling 10 secs before 8am in order to get a chance of an appt otherwise all appts are gone by 8.03am.
I was seriously struggling to keep my head above water.

I got up and had breakfast and simply told my mum if she needed any shopping. I wasn't going to tell her I was going to see GP as it would worry her and I didn't want her to know and worry. She can do without it.

Got called in, sat down. Told Dr I didn't know where to begin. I think he was just expecting me to describe a minor ailment of sorts. I could feel myself getting emotional and shaking and before the floodgate opened all I could say was sorry but it's so difficult to start and I'm likely to have a breakdown or burst into tears.
All I managed to get out was I'm a carer and I look after my parents of 80+ years old... Started to explain about how his behaviour had gone from monthly / quarterly to relentlessly daily and that was it. Burst into floods of tears and couldn't speak. Now people that know me know that is out of character. I'm usually the strong one with shoulders for everyone else. You know the person that has 'talk to me' written across my forehead and I can listen to everyone's problems and be unmoved. Yes, I'm that person.

Managed to compose myself a bit and carry one between holding back the emotions and finally got my problem across. Even let the Dr read through my phone memo where I type in times dates of episodes and description of behaviours and actions over the months and years. I could tell judging by the time I spent blubbering he was also trying to give me a fair session but at the same time he needed to see the next patient. It was evident.

To cut a long story short, he seemed to take notice of the severity and I asked him to email the Dr that will be seeing my dad next week to be very careful not to suggest or insinuate anything that may trigger paranoia or anger. He said of course and they will do things carefully and sensitively and that there were many ways to assess someone without indicating AD. I hope so for my mums sake.

Went for a walk to town for the shopping and sat in a quiet place for a bit to hear myself think before going back 'home' if one can call it that. It's more of a house not a home.

Thankfully he had gone out by the time I got back but mum said he was stalling until I got back to see what I had bought in case I had returned with a banquet behind his back while he was out. That's the kind of paranoia that manifests. It was only groceries like bread and milk etc so expecting snide comment like "gone out that long and come back with fork hall' to put it mildly. Says him who goes out every day and comes back empty handed. When no one is home he's doing allsorts in garden, a loaf of bread is hardly as heavy as a watering can... He does sometimes come back with pies, bacon, crisps and all things unhealthy but they're not for sharing, he devours them all. No one would dare touch them anyway. It would be like trying to take a bone off a dog.

She also said he was trying to bait her for an argument but she wasn't having any of it and let him tire himself out like a baby. He was trying the 'we want him to die' line with her but she completely ignored it. Realising he wasn't going to relish an argument, he toddled out.

Since his return, so far so quiet and will see how tonight, early hours and weekend goes. I'm not holding my breath but having spoken to the Dr it has lightened the load a little, I guess I have room on my shoulders now for a few more days of weight.

@Ohknicks, thanks for the reference to Hostess Mode, that does sound very relevant, I shall look it up. I know given his pride and self-righteousness, he does seem to act like royalty. Expecting to be able to open a cupboard and find stock replenished. They always are. There was a time during the Easter holidays when we ran out of bread. He was vile with his 'useless lazy b' star! I am because there was no bread.
Quite ironic given that he goes out and comes back daily empty handed.

@CragMaid. You're right. I know he's capable of more than he shows. He does have a chronic condition but I do know whenever he is by himself if we're out, he springs into life doing allsorts but when he has an audience, he is all woe is me. In my mind only I compare it to that of the KitKat advert with the photographer and the dancing pandas. Hopefully you will have seen that at some point and know what I mean.

I can drive but gave up the car when I stopped working. Would love to take mum out for a long break but I think mum feels a sense of loyalty and perhaps abandonment by doing so. I think they only time that might have happened was when mum was in hospital for a week and he had no choice but fend for himself, but that was years ago. I know he probably could still but it might just be stoking the fire and may make matters worse. I am planning to take mum out further afield on train or coach when weather improves but it won't be an overnighter or anything. Just out in morning and be back lunchtime or early afternoon.

Interesting points the Dr made was that old people become child like. Very true and appropriate. There was a toddler thread I posted in that fitted this symptom. He also suggested his bad mouthing of me maybe because he is jealous of the bond and communication between me and mum. This bit was lost when I tried to submit post but I think important so will try and rebuild it, albeit nowhere as raw as before.

He said perhaps he jealous that me and mum mum communicate or go out shopping. Perhaps. I know it is something my mum won't do with him because he has no compassion or consideration for her. He isn't touchy feely. He won't hold her armm help her on or off the bus or help her with bags. He would let her carry all the bags plus struggle with walking stick and he would just stroll ahead like a lord. He wouldn't even pull a trolley, that would cramp his style. She would be labouring behind with it.

As for the communication, he (or rather his condition) doesn't exactly promote healthy dialogue but despisement. Every spoken word a criticism or an insult. I'm sure in an ideal world she would love to socialise and grow old fondly together as anyone would, but I doubt betting is a pastime she would find enjoyment in.

I help her when she struggles, she needs to grab by arm mostly. I carry all the bags, both arms and backpack. It's a killer but I see it as exercise. Better than gym. Having said that, I do have huge knots and aches everywhere. I think I have some spondylitis but I can block that. I have a high threshold. Even the butcher calls me the donkey as I carry everything. You remember that comedy sketch, 'he haw, he haw, he halways calls me that'. Between me and a friend, I am Stretch Armstrong!

I don't think I will attempt to remember or retype the lost parts. There was so much but brain has purged it all out first time of typing and I can't seem to remember what I wrote as it all come out sub-consciously. I need to have something to eat now that they have finished theirs. I'll see what's left. We made a stewy soup yesterday and when he returned home I heard him lift the lid and say "would make a well person ill". Mmm, more for me then!

Thanks all for listening and responding. I know everyone has their own problems and struggles and I do ordinarily like to post and help others and very much believe in give and take but I hope you can understand at this time I just need to keep flushing my brain before it or I stop functioning and make room.

Frustratingly not as detailed as my first and lost post. Take care all. I hope you can smile at some of the things. They say if you don't laugh, you cry.
 

Rosnpton

Registered User
Mar 19, 2017
394
0
Northants
Hi
You have made a start- and I must say I'm impressed you got in to see your dr-ours,like yours,means you need to ring on the dot of 8am if you have half a chance of being seen.we also can not book appointments in advance so it can be a battle of wills to get in at all.
Don't take this the wrong way,and I will apologise in advance I case I offend, I'm glad you had a bit of a melt down at the dr.hopefully they have listened and taken on board just how bad the situation has become for you and mum. It may be when your dad is seen next week,they are looking for certain responses or lack or response to questions in order to judge how his mental health is now.
I do hope that reading everyone's answers and posts that you are not alone. No one thinks you are doing anything wrong or not trying something.
I do hope for your sake,things improve slightly.
Hugs
Ros
QUOTE=InElysium;1403281]Glad restore auto save restored some of my post, but only half but not all. Probably won't be as raw second time of composing. Should have typed in notepad first... Wish I could have remembered it all, it's a surprise I even found the restore saved option. Apologies if it is fragmented anywhere.

Thanks Mab, OhKnicks and CragMaid. Really appreciate your words, they mean a lot when nowhere else to turn.

Yesterday was surprisingly and unsurprisingly uneventful. He got up, made breakfast, sat in the living room watched tv, perhaps maybe one brief mutter under his breath but virtually quiet. I did lunch and he had that and went on his merry way. Virtually quiet evening and night too. Did the tea and he had that, settled in front of tv and then bed.

Come 3am this morning, he had a brief outburst and decided to heavy footedly stomp down the stairs as loud as he could, waking me and my mum. I could hear my mum murmuring and stirring being disturbed and woken from deep sleep. I'm sure he must have took a jumping leap judging by the sound of things. This coming from an 80+yo with chronic ailments... He could have missed a step and fell down the stairs, although there is a handrail for my mum so probably had support.

At that point my head felt like it was in a vice. Desperation of nothing I could do, no escape, no sanctuary and no validation of the extent of things. 3am - Only Samaritans was 24/7 but somehow I didn't feel that would help to blubber down to. NHS Helpline perhaps. Nope.

I know I keep harping on about validation and perhaps I have mentioned having a voice recorder in previous posts. I so much want a sanity check and that is why I long for medical validation as it goes unwitnessed. There is no doubt there's a problem, yet I still need someone to say yes it is.

Thankfully after that one episode, he returned up to bed in a normal manner and slept again until 4.45am and 7ish in which he woke again for toilet but those subsequent times he went and returned normally without incident. Enforced my elastic band theory a little bit.

I think I managed to drift in and out of consciousness and woke up dripping wet from the anxiety and palms were clammy. I had to phone the GPs so that I could get seen. It's one of those surgeries where you have to be dialling 10 secs before 8am in order to get a chance of an appt otherwise all appts are gone by 8.03am.
I was seriously struggling to keep my head above water.

I got up and had breakfast and simply told my mum if she needed any shopping. I wasn't going to tell her I was going to see GP as it would worry her and I didn't want her to know and worry. She can do without it.

Got called in, sat down. Told Dr I didn't know where to begin. I think he was just expecting me to describe a minor ailment of sorts. I could feel myself getting emotional and shaking and before the floodgate opened all I could say was sorry but it's so difficult to start and I'm likely to have a breakdown or burst into tears.
All I managed to get out was I'm a carer and I look after my parents of 80+ years old... Started to explain about how his behaviour had gone from monthly / quarterly to relentlessly daily and that was it. Burst into floods of tears and couldn't speak. Now people that know me know that is out of character. I'm usually the strong one with shoulders for everyone else. You know the person that has 'talk to me' written across my forehead and I can listen to everyone's problems and be unmoved. Yes, I'm that person.

Managed to compose myself a bit and carry one between holding back the emotions and finally got my problem across. Even let the Dr read through my phone memo where I type in times dates of episodes and description of behaviours and actions over the months and years. I could tell judging by the time I spent blubbering he was also trying to give me a fair session but at the same time he needed to see the next patient. It was evident.

To cut a long story short, he seemed to take notice of the severity and I asked him to email the Dr that will be seeing my dad next week to be very careful not to suggest or insinuate anything that may trigger paranoia or anger. He said of course and they will do things carefully and sensitively and that there were many ways to assess someone without indicating AD. I hope so for my mums sake.

Went for a walk to town for the shopping and sat in a quiet place for a bit to hear myself think before going back 'home' if one can call it that. It's more of a house not a home.

Thankfully he had gone out by the time I got back but mum said he was stalling until I got back to see what I had bought in case I had returned with a banquet behind his back while he was out. That's the kind of paranoia that manifests. It was only groceries like bread and milk etc so expecting snide comment like "gone out that long and come back with fork hall' to put it mildly. Says him who goes out every day and comes back empty handed. When no one is home he's doing allsorts in garden, a loaf of bread is hardly as heavy as a watering can... He does sometimes come back with pies, bacon, crisps and all things unhealthy but they're not for sharing, he devours them all. No one would dare touch them anyway. It would be like trying to take a bone off a dog.

She also said he was trying to bait her for an argument but she wasn't having any of it and let him tire himself out like a baby. He was trying the 'we want him to die' line with her but she completely ignored it. Realising he wasn't going to relish an argument, he toddled out.

Since his return, so far so quiet and will see how tonight, early hours and weekend goes. I'm not holding my breath but having spoken to the Dr it has lightened the load a little, I guess I have room on my shoulders now for a few more days of weight.

@Ohknicks, thanks for the reference to Hostess Mode, that does sound very relevant, I shall look it up. I know given his pride and self-righteousness, he does seem to act like royalty. Expecting to be able to open a cupboard and find stock replenished. They always are. There was a time during the Easter holidays when we ran out of bread. He was vile with his 'useless lazy b' star! I am because there was no bread.
Quite ironic given that he goes out and comes back daily empty handed.

@CragMaid. You're right. I know he's capable of more than he shows. He does have a chronic condition but I do know whenever he is by himself if we're out, he springs into life doing allsorts but when he has an audience, he is all woe is me. In my mind only I compare it to that of the KitKat advert with the photographer and the dancing pandas. Hopefully you will have seen that at some point and know what I mean.

I can drive but gave up the car when I stopped working. Would love to take mum out for a long break but I think mum feels a sense of loyalty and perhaps abandonment by doing so. I think they only time that might have happened was when mum was in hospital for a week and he had no choice but fend for himself, but that was years ago. I know he probably could still but it might just be stoking the fire and may make matters worse. I am planning to take mum out further afield on train or coach when weather improves but it won't be an overnighter or anything. Just out in morning and be back lunchtime or early afternoon.

Interesting points the Dr made was that old people become child like. Very true and appropriate. There was a toddler thread I posted in that fitted this symptom. He also suggested his bad mouthing of me maybe because he is jealous of the bond and communication between me and mum. This bit was lost when I tried to submit post but I think important so will try and rebuild it, albeit nowhere as raw as before.

He said perhaps he jealous that me and mum mum communicate or go out shopping. Perhaps. I know it is something my mum won't do with him because he has no compassion or consideration for her. He isn't touchy feely. He won't hold her armm help her on or off the bus or help her with bags. He would let her carry all the bags plus struggle with walking stick and he would just stroll ahead like a lord. He wouldn't even pull a trolley, that would cramp his style. She would be labouring behind with it.

As for the communication, he (or rather his condition) doesn't exactly promote healthy dialogue but despisement. Every spoken word a criticism or an insult. I'm sure in an ideal world she would love to socialise and grow old fondly together as anyone would, but I doubt betting is a pastime she would find enjoyment in.

I help her when she struggles, she needs to grab by arm mostly. I carry all the bags, both arms and backpack. It's a killer but I see it as exercise. Better than gym. Having said that, I do have huge knots and aches everywhere. I think I have some spondylitis but I can block that. I have a high threshold. Even the butcher calls me the donkey as I carry everything. You remember that comedy sketch, 'he haw, he haw, he halways calls me that'. Between me and a friend, I am Stretch Armstrong!

I don't think I will attempt to remember or retype the lost parts. There was so much but brain has purged it all out first time of typing and I can't seem to remember what I wrote as it all come out sub-consciously. I need to have something to eat now that they have finished theirs. I'll see what's left. We made a stewy soup yesterday and when he returned home I heard him lift the lid and say "would make a well person ill". Mmm, more for me then!

Thanks all for listening and responding. I know everyone has their own problems and struggles and I do ordinarily like to post and help others and very much believe in give and take but I hope you can understand at this time I just need to keep flushing my brain before it or I stop functioning and make room.

Frustratingly not as detailed as my first and lost post. Take care all. I hope you can smile at some of the things. They say if you don't laugh, you cry.[/QUOTE]
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Hi Ros, not at all, no offence taken here. I don't mind any comments. It's grounding to read other views. Thank you for speaking frankly.

I agree it was a miracle to get an appt at that time. I was initially going to ask for a telephone consult as that's usually next option they prefer patients to ask, failing that an emergency appt where you get added to end of morning surgery and wait until that sessions appts have finished and gone. They said there was one available so I took it. It wasn't my preferred doctor or one that will be assessing next week as they're on leave this week so I hesitated but in a way, for the emotional release, I think I needed it. I think I would have regretted it had I'd left it and helpless all weekend. We can book online but I think we're looking at sometime in May. I think I would have been a wreck by then.

I knew it was getting to me emotionally, mentally and physically and I'd said in earlier post I was drowning and need to see a Dr, but I certainly didn't expect to break so soon. It just went and I couldn't control it. I just felt Dr was thinking oh here we go, waterworks. I know he wasn't but sometimes you think that.

Hopefully this Dr will email that Dr before the appt and phone me if he needs further details beforehand. I'm even considering asking him to speak with my mum separately and privately as I feel she deserves to vent with Dr and not just with me. Don't get me wrong, I have no objection listening to her vent, it's what I have done for a long time. I'd sooner she vented to me than me to her though. I have to be strong and not let her see me distressed otherwise she would feel the same and helpless seeing me struggle. She has no other outlet but I think perhaps the Dr would like to hear her experiences first hand.

Whether my mum would feel like that is a betrayal going behind his back or not I don't know, but I just feel I'm the only one voicing and venting my concerns and no one else. The Dr might end up asking that anyway, so I guess I can only wait until next week and see what happens...

Hope everyone has a good and kind weekend.
 

Rosnpton

Registered User
Mar 19, 2017
394
0
Northants
You made the first step. That took guts and courage and the crying jag may have been good for you,although it may not feel like it atm.
Why don't you see if your mum would write down some of her concerns and worries re dads behaviour? Maybe a white lie saying dads dr.may find it useful before his appointment.
You could post/ hand it in at the surgery ahead of his appointment so the dr.has her take/ view on what is happening/how poor the home life is now .
it may not help,but it certainly won't do any harm.
It may also be a bit of an eye opener- what you find really upsetting and hurtful may not be the same for her.
Things that really upset or worry her,may just be annoying to you.
If nothing else, you and mum should have a bit if a heart to heart over tea and cake when dads gone for a walk and clear the air.
She may be well aware of how you are feeling and how low you are/ could become but be scared of broaching the subject.worried about upsetting you or fall out etc.
I will be thinking of you and hope you get the chance of a little peace at the weekend
Ros
Hi Ros, not at all, no offence taken here. I don't mind any comments. It's grounding to read other views. Thank you for speaking frankly.

I agree it was a miracle to get an appt at that time. I was initially going to ask for a telephone consult as that's usually next option they prefer patients to ask, failing that an emergency appt where you get added to end of morning surgery and wait until that sessions appts have finished and gone. They said there was one available so I took it. It wasn't my preferred doctor or one that will be assessing next week as they're on leave this week so I hesitated but in a way, for the emotional release, I think I needed it. I think I would have regretted it had I'd left it and helpless all weekend. We can book online but I think we're looking at sometime in May. I think I would have been a wreck by then.

I knew it was getting to me emotionally, mentally and physically and I'd said in earlier post I was drowning and need to see a Dr, but I certainly didn't expect to break so soon. It just went and I couldn't control it. I just felt Dr was thinking oh here we go, waterworks. I know he wasn't but sometimes you think that.

Hopefully this Dr will email that Dr before the appt and phone me if he needs further details beforehand. I'm even considering asking him to speak with my mum separately and privately as I feel she deserves to vent with Dr and not just with me. Don't get me wrong, I have no objection listening to her vent, it's what I have done for a long time. I'd sooner she vented to me than me to her though. I have to be strong and not let her see me distressed otherwise she would feel the same and helpless seeing me struggle. She has no other outlet but I think perhaps the Dr would like to hear her experiences first hand.

Whether my mum would feel like that is a betrayal going behind his back or not I don't know, but I just feel I'm the only one voicing and venting my concerns and no one else. The Dr might end up asking that anyway, so I guess I can only wait until next week and see what happens...

Hope everyone has a good and kind weekend.
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Thanks Ros,

I doubt she would commit to writing anything down but verbally she just might. I know it would be in strictest confidence from a patient confidentiality point of view but that wouldn't make a difference. I'd even wait outside and let it be one to one in case there was anything she wouldn't want me to know or hear although we are open and honest to each other to a degree in that I wouldn't distress her and she probably wouldn't want to me.
I did get some ice cream but somehow it felt like we were committing exclusion. A sense of victim turned culprit of sorts. Almost a guilty aftertaste. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. I'm probably reading too much into it? It's going back to that child personality theory the Dr mentioned. Reward a child for good behaviour, no treats when naughty...
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
Sounds like he's fallen asleep in his armchair which means he'll have overslept and be wide awake by 3am or thereabouts. Normally I would move about and do things in kitchen, try and make a noise, put the noisy kettle on so delay his sleep until later, or make the most of / savour the peace and let sleeping dogs lie...

9.00pm Scrub that, he's woke and moving about with his seagull sounds. 9pm isn't too bad I guess. Hoping he hasn't snoozed too much and dozes again once he touches the pillow.

9.15pm He's just come up and made a big announcement in his bedroom - hey lets all be good. No sooner had those words left his mouth, there's an argument in the bedroom with mum as she gives benefit of the doubt and takes the bait. I think she deserves a vent and seems to be reasoning to a degree. I suspect that's what he wants, a quick argument before bedtime by leading with the false sense of security 'let's all be good' line. Nice touch. I don't think I heard a sorry anywhere. Had to get the recorder out. He's jumping to events 10-20 years ago not relevant to the current point. He did that the other day.

Mum seems to be getting her point across well that he has brought it on himself with the constant bad mouthing, asking him how would he feel if he was bad mouthed at relentlessly. How would he feel if we came home and no sooner had we stepped over the threshold we started blaming, criticising and belittling? His responses changed between denial that he did such a thing one minute to 'it's trivial' not offensive! Testing to see which works best?

Does the denial bit enforce AD if he genuinely does not believe or remember he has been relentlessly bad mouthing me? Further evidence?

He goes quiet for a bit as though he is conceding, but is 100% never the case. He is never wrong, he never loses face. Never. His brain wouldn't have processed that he has lost and in a few hours he will be on the defensive, licking his wounds and biting back in the early hours once his mind has realised he has lost / conceded the argument. The 'lets be good' line will be non-existent.

He then moans about the appt next week as he usually does with any appt. He is so anti-appt, anti-test and non-compliant, it is customary for him to moan his way out of going, generally the closer the appt is the more he moans. Not this time. Not after the blood sweat and tears...

Thankfully quiet but it is safe to say we won't hear the last of that tonight.
 
Last edited:

Harrys daughter

Registered User
Jul 12, 2016
385
0
Hi iv been reading and feel for you all has your dad had his appointment with the Dr yet how are you and your mum I just don't know how you both get through each day think I would of done something bad to my dad if he had treat me so badly we can blame there illnesses for there behaviour and please forgive me for being so blunt but he sounds like he has a split personally to be able to tootle out with his pals and be fine my heart goes out to you x

Sent from my SM-G930F using Talking Point mobile app
 

Oh Knickers

Registered User
Nov 19, 2016
500
0
InElysium,

This is unrelentless, isn't it? It must be so exhausting for you let alone your mum.

May I suggest you contact Social Services and tell them you are on the verge of carer breakdown and have been in contact with your GP regarding this. Your mum is also a vulnerable adult. Those are both solid points over which to call Social Services. How is your mum likely to cope were you to have a breakdown?

In my last post, I gave you contact details. Should you not feel brave enough to call social services, please, at least contact them.

Best wishes.
 

InElysium

Registered User
Mar 14, 2011
43
0
This one is for the Dr should he read this retrospectively. It is now 9.58 and his appt is not until in the next half hour so I can at least predict his plan seeing as he hates any medical intervention and has been shouting and badmouthing the doctors every day and night in the past weeks in the run up to today. A common routine when it comes to any appointments.

For years he has always gone out unaided. Everyone over the years has at some point bought him a tall umbrella as a walking aid but he has always trashed them as an insult to his pride. Even my mum in the past has donated her old sticks but he doesn't even want it. He even cuts off branches from a tree and makes them into a stick for some bizarre reason...
Today, in his mind of mind plans, he is going for the sympathy plan and gone out in blazing morning sun with a tall umbrella as a walking aid / prop. Today is the 'Oh Dr please, I can't keep attending appts as I am over 80 and I can't walk far unaided...' plan. When he comes home, he will start badmouthing again for days after the appt and then later on today will go out for a flutter... yes you guessed it - unaided.

If only I could predict the lotto numbers as accurately as his behaviour.

Belated thanks to HarrysDaughter, Smashy and OhKnickers for your kind words.

He had his appt last week and the Dr did a memory test and a few maths questions. For days and late nights after that he's been badmouthing on and off, but that's the 'norm' after any appts. He always thinks medical staff make money from any tests they want, and that if they need to do a blood test, they think Phlebs are harvesting his blood to sell. You really couldn't make it up...

Interestingly though, the same doctor has booked a follow up appt today which he has quietly toddled off to this morning, despite all the days and curses, he was quiet today. Will have a recorder on standby later when he returns as he will be all nice and smiley during the appt and then badmouth as soon as he walks through the door.
For instance, last week he was being all bravado saying he was saying No to future appts and meds but we found a note with today's appt written on it by the Dr or receptionist which he stashed away. So much for the bravado... He won't refuse appts made for him as that would be losing face and pride being a Did Not Attend statistic.

I'm guessing the Dr will have a plan for today's appointment and perhaps have another Dr attend or observe. Will know more later once he gets home and broadcasts it for all to know.

I have been keeping a diary on my phone in the notes and I was at the Drs for myself last week and yesterday and I scrolled through the dates and times for the Dr to see the various times, especially the 1am - 5am entries. One Dr has read through some of them, the other Drs know too. I do keep a recorder handy when I know he's about to have a curse. Not sure about video yet but I seriously need to though as the behaviour in audio alone is not enough. He can literally start an argument in an empty house. I did leave a microphone lying around few weeks ago that caused a lot of commotion and paranoia. OK I know that was not a clever thing to leave lying around, but in hindsight he has been a bit wary now and again incase he is being recorded, so while he still moans day and night, he can be cautious at times so perhaps that's a blessing in a very small way.

Thanks for the details about social services, our council has a careline for young and old so I know they're there and have used them in past for getting adaptations done to help them. I'm a bit torn as I feel my mum should also have the deciding say too and so far she seems a lot lot lot more tolerant through everything and seem to endure and ignore better than I can...

Take care all.