Concerns about becoming a deputy for mother's finances

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Bookworm04

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Mar 15, 2017
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My mother was diagnosed 2 years ago and has now deteriorated to the point where she desperately needs care in her home. Adult Services have told us that she must fund her own care and that my uncle and I (her only relatives) should seek POA or deputisation to manage her assets to pay these costs; she has historically refused any involvement and is no longer capable of making these decisions for herself. As her GP has said she does not have the capacity to sign POA we are faced with deputisation. I have spoken to a solicitor today and done some reading on the gov website and I am not entirely sure that I want this commitment alone (my uncle has said he wants to take a 'backseat') and I can't seem to find any definite information on the required bond payment. I have read some internet posts about people having to put their own property/assets up as surety and as a single parent I will not consider this. Any advice/recommendations from people who are acting as deputies would be greatly appreciated.
 

Sterling

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Jun 20, 2013
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Having completed my first year as a Deputy, it's not an easy job.

The surety bond we used was the one on the Court of Protection website which was a third of the price of the initially recommended one. The money comes out of the estate (so not your own money).
I am now having to provide accounts on monies spent and decisions made. My mother has accounts everywhere which has made it trickier! I have just used her current account for spending so it's clear on the bank statements.

For me the hardest thing has been convincing banks that Deputyship is as valid as Power of Attorney and having to send of to everyone (who might write to my mother) proof of who I am plus the Court papers.

There should not be any financial cost to you but it is time consuming!!

Good luck
 

Delphie

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Dec 14, 2011
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Hi :)

Think of the bond as an insurance policy. The amount that is paid is determined by the assets and what the deputy is permitted to do with them. So the bond amount would be more for substantial assets such as property, which the deputy is allowed to sell, and less if there are no substantial assets or if the court order is quite restrictive, such as forbidding selling. And the deputy doesn't pay for the bond with their own cash. The annual premium comes out of, in your case, your mum's money. There is no need to be concerned that your own finances would be at risk or involved in any way.

Being a deputy carries a lot of responsibility, but it's do-able. My advice to you is to have a look at the forms you'll need to fill in (nothing complicated, just factual information about your mum's circumstances etc) then call the court of protection helpline if you have any questions. Or come back here and post away. Several of us have experience of the whole process and will be happy to help.
 

canary

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Feb 25, 2014
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South coast
I was in a similar position. Mum refused to do POA right up until the time when she she no longer had capacity to sign, so I therefore had to go down the Court of Protection route. It is rather time-consuming and there is a lot of paperwork involved, but I too found it doable. All the fees, bond etc come out of your mums money. Anyone who says that they had to put up their own home as surety has either been seriously misinformed or is scare-mongering. The actual amount will vary, depending on how much the assets are worth, how much responsibility you have and how much experience you have - its a bit like car insurance depends on what sort of car you have, how much experience you have, your age, etc. The bond is not cheap, but its not thousands of pounds (unless you are looking after the assets of a millionaire, I suppose)
 

Bookworm04

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Mar 15, 2017
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Thanks for your responses. The solicitor is sending me some information so I think I need to have a good read of this and make my decision, what keeps coming back to me is her saying 'you don't have to do this' as I think she understood that I am feeling pressurised to take control by my uncle. Thanks again.
 

Delphie

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Dec 14, 2011
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Thanks for your responses. The solicitor is sending me some information so I think I need to have a good read of this and make my decision, what keeps coming back to me is her saying 'you don't have to do this' as I think she understood that I am feeling pressurised to take control by my uncle. Thanks again.

You don't have to do it. Neither does your uncle. It's actually very sensible to have a good think at this stage, and to consider one's own circumstances and what taking on this extra responsibility would mean.

To put it simply, what's in front of you if you go for it is the following.

The deputyship application. Basically some forms that you fill out with factual information about your mum and her circumstances. Or you can give the information to a solicitor and pay (your mum's money!) them to fill out the paperwork.

Once you become a deputy you get a court order which details what you are allowed to do.

You show the order to anyone you have to deal with on your mum's behalf.

You pay an annual bond from your mum's assets.

You pay an annual supervision fee from your mum's assets.

The supervision level depends on your mum's assets and your ability to handle everything. If the assets are substantial or you (or they!) feel you need help there will be more contact. This can be phone calls, emails or visits from the Office of the Public Guardian.

Once a year you're asked to submit a report. You go over any decisions you may have made and reconcile income and outgoings (basic maths).

If your mum's assets and income are low there are exemptions as far as fees.

If you feel that this is not for you, and your uncle still feels the same, the court will appoint a panel deputy, quite often a solicitor. The up side is that if that happens the responsibility is no longer yours. The down side is that there will be a professional fee attached to everything the solicitor does for your mum and, ultimately, they get to decide what happens, not you.

Good luck with whatever you decide. Just to let you know, I'm a deputy for my mum and my husband's aunt, both have fairly complex finances, but I'm coping, and have been for several years. It gets easier. In the end you just get on with it!
 

jugglingmum

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Jan 5, 2014
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Chester
If you feel that this is not for you, and your uncle still feels the same, the court will appoint a panel deputy, quite often a solicitor. The up side is that if that happens the responsibility is no longer yours. The down side is that there will be a professional fee attached to everything the solicitor does for your mum and, ultimately, they get to decide what happens, not you.

If you decide to do it, you can still pay the solicitor (Out of your mum's funds) to do a lot the work for you, but you still have control ie if you aren't deputy, the solicitor will decide when and how to sell your mum's house, which you may want to have some input into, but if you ask the solicitor you use to do some of the work you make the decisions, when you want to, but they should guide you if you aren't sure.
 

Delphie

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Dec 14, 2011
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If you decide to do it, you can still pay the solicitor (Out of your mum's funds) to do a lot the work for you, but you still have control ie if you aren't deputy, the solicitor will decide when and how to sell your mum's house, which you may want to have some input into, but if you ask the solicitor you use to do some of the work you make the decisions, when you want to, but they should guide you if you aren't sure.

Yes, definitely. Getting professionals involved can be a good idea.
 

Bookworm04

Registered User
Mar 15, 2017
3
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Thanks again. I've had a long talk with my uncle this evening and we're both really uncomfortable with the responsibility, my mother has quite a large and complicated financial portfolio and to be blunt neither of us have a relationship with her. We have made an appointment with a solicitor and are going to do some reading and write down everything we are worried about and get some advice. It may be better to have a professional appointed. I've recently come out of a long protracted messy divorce and am still coming to terms with managing my own affairs let alone being responsible for another persons!
 

DoTheRightThing

Registered User
Feb 21, 2012
28
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I've been my relative's deputy for three years now. I engaged a solicitor to apply for deputyship as I am time poor and there were sufficient funds in the estate to do this. This made things much easier. The bill was paid to the solicitors out of my relative's money once deputyship had been granted. There is also a bond fee (insurance) and an admin fee - both of which are paid yearly out of the estate. Once a year I have to submit an accounts return to the OPG. If this is a problem for you you can engage an accountant to do this for you but it's not that difficult if you're organised. You can also engage an independent financial advisor to help with investments.

There are a few reasons why it's preferable for you to be deputy rather than let a solicitor do it. Firstly, it gives you more control over what happens generally to your mother. Even (as is likely) you are just property & affairs deputy, it gives you huge sway over decisions that are made with regard to your mother's welfare. Once I was P & A deputy I had no problem seeing doctors records, care home records, social services records etc. I was able to go to important meetings and put my foot down over care issues. Even if you are not close to your mother, it makes a real difference to her to have someone looking out for her generally. It's the people without anyone who get the worst care & are more likely to be neglected in my experience. That's not to say you need to be the doting daughter, you could just look out for her welfare from a distance like you would if you were being kind to a neighbour.

Also, on a practical level. If a solicitor is made deputy the estate will haemorrhage funds as it will rack up legal charges - they will charge for everything. If you're not due to inherit anything then you may not care but it's worth thinking about. It may also mean the difference between your mother having enough funds to be comfortably cared for or not.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask any more questions you may have about it all. :)
 

Leah3110

Registered User
Jul 10, 2016
33
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I know full well how Solicitor's can drain funds, as over a 12 month period since being instructed by the other Deputy, it has cost £23,000.
Once you have the Deputy order it's relatively straight forward in adding names to bank accounts and paying for whatever is required.
I intend taking back control with the assistance of the OPG who are involved due to the other Deputy not acting in the best interest of my relative. We can both make decisions for under £5000 however I have already been refused extra spending money and private physio which isn't even for my benefit. The latest legal bill dated for 2 months work has cost £7227 and that's for emails, phone calls, and letters closing bank accounts, paying care fees, insurance policies, pensions etc - all of which I could have done with no expenses claimed.
 

wlchubb

Registered User
Jan 3, 2017
5
0
Having completed my first year as a Deputy, it's not an easy job.

The surety bond we used was the one on the Court of Protection website which was a third of the price of the initially recommended one. The money comes out of the estate (so not your own money).
I am now having to provide accounts on monies spent and decisions made. My mother has accounts everywhere which has made it trickier! I have just used her current account for spending so it's clear on the bank statements.

For me the hardest thing has been convincing banks that Deputyship is as valid as Power of Attorney and having to send of to everyone (who might write to my mother) proof of who I am plus the Court papers.

There should not be any financial cost to you but it is time consuming!!

Good luck
There is a Court of Protection fee of £385 for an application to appoint a deputy. The cost of the bond is likely to be £10-20. Timescale between 4 and 9 months.
 
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