I hold EPOA (registered) for my elderly Aunt. Carers visit her home address on a daily basis (30 min) to wash/dress etc. Aunt's partner resides with her and provides care also. He has asked that I give consideration to paying him a monthly wage from my Aunt's funds to supplement his pension. Just wondered if I need authorisation from the OPG.
Epoa.
- Thread starter GrannyRobyn
- Start date
Hi. This issue of a "wage" for carers has come up before I'm sure. I think it opens up all sorts of problems and questions.
There is Attendance Allowance and Carer's Allowance (Benefit?) - is your Aunt (plus carer) in receipt of these?
There is Attendance Allowance and Carer's Allowance (Benefit?) - is your Aunt (plus carer) in receipt of these?
I think for your own peace of mind you need to clarify the situation with the OPG. Friends/family, etc save governments a hell of a lot of money by taking on an unofficial carers' role but, as far as I'm aware, they have no entitlement to a regular payment from the person being cared for. I'm a deputy for my mum and, if I was put in this position, I'd be worried that I was using her money in a way I wasn't entitled to.
I don't think you can get Carers Allowance if you are receiving a pension as it's supposed to compensate you for loss of wages (yeah, really) because you're caring for 35 hours a week at least.
I would definitely check with OPG on this as I think you would be on dubious ground. If you did go ahead, there would have to be a paper trail as part of your attorney records, and the partner would have to declare this income to HMRC which might affect other benefits he receives. Not doing either of these could get both of you into hot water especially if LA is or became involved in any financial assessment including eventual residential care for your aunt.
If the partner is having difficulties with his caring role, I wonder if a Carers Assessment might help as this might lead to (e.g.) sitting service so he could have some time off. Or maybe your aunt needs an update of her needs assessment (e.g.) increased support from paid carers.
In some ways it is illogical that you can't pay a wage to a family carer which would be less expensive than hiring a care agency, but I think that's where we are. (Same thing with childcare, I think you can't pay a family member who's not a registered childminder to look after your little ones.)
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Robyn, I care for my mum. I get carer's allowance. I'm also POA for mum. If I work out the hours I spend looking after her, then my income is a pittance. Despite that I couldn't supplement my money by using her funds. I suppose I am tied by the 'rules' of POA....every penny has to be spent on mum's care.
I suppose if you started paying your mum's partner he would become an employee, technically....holiday pay, sick leave etc etc. What about the minimum wage, working time directive. A relative can 'work' 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and expect no support. Try to get an employee to do that and there are rules.
It's tricky and you need to check the rules/guidelines.
I do know that on carer's allowance you can earn £110 per week before it needs to be declared. Perhaps a fee for cutting the grass, washing the car could be agreed that wouldn't be against the rules.
I suppose ultimately as POA you can spend small sums on maintenance & who says that cannot be done by the partner. It would keep the partner happy, make them feel appreciated and not some unpaid lackey. But strictly - by the book - it may not be correct. Find out what the rules are and then see if there is any 'wiggle' room.
I suppose if you started paying your mum's partner he would become an employee, technically....holiday pay, sick leave etc etc. What about the minimum wage, working time directive. A relative can 'work' 24 hours a day, 365 days a year and expect no support. Try to get an employee to do that and there are rules.
It's tricky and you need to check the rules/guidelines.
I do know that on carer's allowance you can earn £110 per week before it needs to be declared. Perhaps a fee for cutting the grass, washing the car could be agreed that wouldn't be against the rules.
I suppose ultimately as POA you can spend small sums on maintenance & who says that cannot be done by the partner. It would keep the partner happy, make them feel appreciated and not some unpaid lackey. But strictly - by the book - it may not be correct. Find out what the rules are and then see if there is any 'wiggle' room.
I agree with the others, a monthly wage is not a good idea. It might technically be possible to employ him as a 'personal assistant' (have a look on disability websites, there is more useful information there) but it isn't as simple as just handing over a bit of money.
But if your aunt and her partner are living together, they must have shared expenses - if he is struggling on his pension, is your aunt contributing enough from her income into their finances as a couple? If you are looking after your aunt's money, maybe you should sit down with him and make sure that she is paying a suitable amount towards their joint living expenses.
But if your aunt and her partner are living together, they must have shared expenses - if he is struggling on his pension, is your aunt contributing enough from her income into their finances as a couple? If you are looking after your aunt's money, maybe you should sit down with him and make sure that she is paying a suitable amount towards their joint living expenses.
The obstacles to this should be challenged
At the moment people with dementia have their hands tied in spending their money.
There should be an effective system for dealing with this scenario.
If people are 'employed' then they should be properly employed but a nanny tax bureau can deal with the issues that this raise. This stuff is insurmountable.
The interests of the person with dementia should be safeguarded, may be there should be some sort of light touch inspection system or check list that can be done by a critical friend.
You can only earn about 5,000 and still claim carers allowance but where finances a signficantly imbalanced and the POA know that the PWD would want to ensure a financial safety net for the person looking after them there should be a way of doing this.
My weekly payment of carers' allowance doesnt even cover having a tooth out. That really is rubbish. While my father had capacity he paid for a siblings private dental treatment he would die if he knew that I put off NHS treatment because of the cost.
At the moment people with dementia have their hands tied in spending their money.
There should be an effective system for dealing with this scenario.
If people are 'employed' then they should be properly employed but a nanny tax bureau can deal with the issues that this raise. This stuff is insurmountable.
The interests of the person with dementia should be safeguarded, may be there should be some sort of light touch inspection system or check list that can be done by a critical friend.
You can only earn about 5,000 and still claim carers allowance but where finances a signficantly imbalanced and the POA know that the PWD would want to ensure a financial safety net for the person looking after them there should be a way of doing this.
My weekly payment of carers' allowance doesnt even cover having a tooth out. That really is rubbish. While my father had capacity he paid for a siblings private dental treatment he would die if he knew that I put off NHS treatment because of the cost.
I think that if a pre-existing arrangement existed before the person lost capacity, that the arrangement can continue - at the POA's discretion. Obviously the POA's have to make sure that there are enough funds to fund future care.
There's a similar question on the link below which came up with some interesting comments.
K
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/sho...-ship-and-Conflict-of-interest&highlight=wage
K
https://forum.alzheimers.org.uk/sho...-ship-and-Conflict-of-interest&highlight=wage
Epoa
Thank you to everyone who posted a reply to my query.
I am clear that I need to raise the issue with the OPG in due course. Aunty is not in receipt of Attendance Allowance & her partner doesn't receive Carers Allowance as he is over 70.
There are no shared expenses, Aunty pays all the food bills, utility bills etc. She isn't well off by any means but her partner certainly has a strong sense of entitlement to her money. I'm sure the minute I'm out of the way he gives her grief about me & my role as his EPOA. Prior to the registration of the EPOA he had 3rd Party Mandate & was livid when it was removed. He locks horns with me at every opportunity,
Thank you to everyone who posted a reply to my query.
I am clear that I need to raise the issue with the OPG in due course. Aunty is not in receipt of Attendance Allowance & her partner doesn't receive Carers Allowance as he is over 70.
There are no shared expenses, Aunty pays all the food bills, utility bills etc. She isn't well off by any means but her partner certainly has a strong sense of entitlement to her money. I'm sure the minute I'm out of the way he gives her grief about me & my role as his EPOA. Prior to the registration of the EPOA he had 3rd Party Mandate & was livid when it was removed. He locks horns with me at every opportunity,
Well thank goodness you are the attorney and not him. Definitely apply for AA as you can sign the form on her behalf. It's a long and daunting form but you can get someone from Age UK or AS to help you and they know how to make sure the right information is on the form. Once that is granted, you can apply for the SMI disregard which will reduce her council tax. All this will help to stretch her savings for the time when she needs more paid care.
On the basis of what your latest post says, even if OPG said it was OK, I wouldn't be giving him any extra. If he is living rent free in her home and not contributing anything to the bills, he is effectively already getting a financial recompense for looking after her. Make sure you tell the OPG all of this when you speak to them.
Thank you for your reply Pickles.
I have drafted an email to the OPG & included many of the issues raised by the previous posters. I will keep you all updated.
Aunty has the SMI disregard. She is also in receipt of DLA (Higher Rate Care) I seem to recall Aunty's partner looking into AA a number of years ago, I'm sure he said Aunty wasn't entitled to it. The only benefits paid into her account are DLA & her pension.
Thank you again everyone. All advice much appreciated.
I have drafted an email to the OPG & included many of the issues raised by the previous posters. I will keep you all updated.
Aunty has the SMI disregard. She is also in receipt of DLA (Higher Rate Care) I seem to recall Aunty's partner looking into AA a number of years ago, I'm sure he said Aunty wasn't entitled to it. The only benefits paid into her account are DLA & her pension.
Thank you again everyone. All advice much appreciated.
If it was several years ago, I would look at AA again as things do change. When I first read the form, I wasn't sure mum would qualify but she did, initially for the lower rate as she wasn't needing help at night. (Actually she probably did, but as nobody was there at night to see what happened, we didn't have the 'evidence' at the time.)
Glad you have decided what to do next and hope the OPG don't keep you waiting too long and give you the 'ammunition' you need. It seems quite often it does help in these situations to have someone 'official' to blame for a decision which is the right one anyway. Certainly you have a good reason for not discussing the wages question any further until you hear from them.
Epoa
Just had a reply from the OPG re my query:
'Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, the OPG does not supervise Attorneys or tell them how they should manage the Donor's affairs.
If Attorneys need advice on practical, financial or legal matters, they should seek help from solicitors or other professional advisers. The OPG can provide general guidance on our processes but cannot provide legal advice or services.
With regret I can not be of help to you on this occasion'
So I need to speak to a Solicitor. Do I have to pay for the legal advice?
Just had a reply from the OPG re my query:
'Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, the OPG does not supervise Attorneys or tell them how they should manage the Donor's affairs.
If Attorneys need advice on practical, financial or legal matters, they should seek help from solicitors or other professional advisers. The OPG can provide general guidance on our processes but cannot provide legal advice or services.
With regret I can not be of help to you on this occasion'
So I need to speak to a Solicitor. Do I have to pay for the legal advice?
I'm surprised their isn't some sort of guidance for attorney's....even if that was in the form of a PDF with examples of best practice. I'm sure I've seen some such document...it was mostly common sense.
You could try citizen's advice. Sometimes they have lawyers who give advice but they may be reluctant to give specific advice.
If you do consult a lawyer/solicitor then any fee would come from your aunt's money.
You could try citizen's advice. Sometimes they have lawyers who give advice but they may be reluctant to give specific advice.
If you do consult a lawyer/solicitor then any fee would come from your aunt's money.
