Am I unreasonable?

[optocarol]

OH has been on CH for a year now and relations with stepdaughter seem no better. Some of you may remember my story. Anyway, I'd just like your thoughts. She has a plan to have someone take him out once a week for about a 2 hour drive. Apparently, this man knows or used to know OH. She hasn't had the manners to let me know about it or who he is and when he's last seen him. I have POA for welfare, so I should be let know. I'm not against the idea, as OH always wants to go out, I'm just fed up with being treated as if I don't exist. Not once has any of his children answered my emails last year, even when I asked them to let me know the answer to a question.

The manager is with me and will ask her if I know about it, but s'daughter took off from CH in a hurry this morning and she (manager) didn't have a chance.

 

[oilovlam]

Optocarol, I don't know the background but it sounds like there is some tension in the family. To me the stepdaughter is only trying to do something positive by arranging an outing for her father and I imagine that she wouldn't see this as a welfare issue.

That doesn't mean that you should be ignored, which may be the real issue here. It sounds like you have asked to be included in family communications but feel left out. There may be the temptation to get them to communicate by using the POA's 'need to know' option, but it could cause resentment and make things worse.

Personally I'm terrible at communicating. My family too. I resent that they don't visit, telephone or email. So I cannot give advice on how to build bridges. But enforcing the POA - unless you really feel there is a safety issue - may not be the best option. Perhaps you need a mediator like the CH manager who may have experience of this. Or someone on TP may know how to deal with tricky relatives (which I guess is what you are asking).

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

 

[Linbrusco]

Sorry to hear you are having issues with S Family.
My concern would be that this person knows your husband well enough NOW to take him out on a 2hr journey?

Surely as POA you also need to know a few more details and/or at least meet this person?
Wouldnt the care home need to know if its authorsied by you also.

The way my Mum is now I wouldnt even feel comfortable with Mums two sisters taking her for a walk to the downstairs garden area. Mum can get quite tricky and obstinate going back up in the lift, unless she wants to go up 5 flights of stairs, but oddly enough has no issues going down for daily walks with care staff

 

[optocarol]

"My concern would be that this person knows your husband well enough NOW to take him out on a 2hr journey?"

That is my concern, Linbrusco, which is one reason I think I should know who he is and when he last saw OH.

Apparently, the plan is s'daughter and he are coming Friday a.m., she will be with OH too and they'll see how it goes. CH manager is going to find out the answer to my questions i.e. who is he and has she told me?

Will be phoning Friday afternoon, methinks!

Thanks for replying.

 

[canary]

Do you have a way of contacting this friend to reassure yourself that he is OK to take your OH out? Perhaps the CH manager can get his contact details? Mum has a friend who visits and used to take her out quite regularly (mum cant cope with outings now) and I am happy with that as mum enjoyed the outings. I phoned the friend regularly, and still do, so I knew how it was going and we were in agreement when mum could no longer go out.

I agree that your daughter should have discussed this with you first, but if this friend is OK with taking him out and there are no problems then this will be to his good. Perhaps you could befriend him yourself and talk to him regularly about your OH and how everything is going. That way you will be kept up to date and know if any problems develop.

 

[Morty]

Dont think your being unreasonable at all,some peoples ideas are like a Disney film,but they need to be organised,all families are bloody hard work.Make sure the journey will be safe,some sufferers will try to open car door while its moving etc,the guy needs to knowcthe risks involved etc,id imagine your family are trying to compensate for thier lack of visits etc,thats what mine do,totallt innappropriate. However getting him out will be good as long as its well prepared and thought out etc, goodluck..

 

[optocarol]

Do you have a way of contacting this friend to reassure yourself that he is OK to take your OH out? Perhaps the CH manager can get his contact details? Mum has a friend who visits and used to take her out quite regularly (mum cant cope with outings now) and I am happy with that as mum enjoyed the outings. I phoned the friend regularly, and still do, so I knew how it was going and we were in agreement when mum could no longer go out.

I agree that your daughter should have discussed this with you first, but if this friend is OK with taking him out and there are no problems then this will be to his good. Perhaps you could befriend him yourself and talk to him regularly about your OH and how everything is going. That way you will be kept up to date and know if any problems develop.

I can't contact him when I don't know his name even. This is my stepdaughter, who has not communicated with me in the last year, even when asked. (My daughter does communicate!) Am hoping to find out more on Friday.

Yes, I'm OK with his taking OH out, I just want to talk to him and see if his expectations are realistic.

 

[Katrine]

And that these outings do not involve solicitors or financial institutions.

 

[oilovlam]

And that these outings do not involve solicitors or financial institutions.

How would you broach the subject?

Would you ask: "You aren't going to take him to any banks or lawyers are you?"

That would really throw the cat amongst the pigeons. You have to trust people, especially his daughter...unless you know otherwise. Although I would ensure money is safe and keep any eye on bank accounts. You hear such stories.

I think the advice of the CH manager could be invaluable. Presumably they have a duty of care to the resident as much as Optocarol does to her husband (and as Welfare POA). Hopefully the CH would prevent people being taken out unless they are happy that the plan is reasonable. Presumably they would also give advice to the person taking them out about any risks or limitations due to the person's health issues (like they wander off).

Some friends of mum visited after not seeing her for years. They knew she had dementia. They took her out for lunch. She didn't eat or drink anything. They didn't know to encourage her to eat/drink. It wasn't their fault, they didn't know any difference. They didn't have any experience of dementia.

So you are right that the plan has to be realistic and participants need to be aware of what is involved & their responsibilities. What would happen if they wandered off, refused to get in the car etc etc?

 

[love.dad.but..]

My first reaction to your post is that you are not being unreasonable but that your concerns must be for the right reasons relative to your OH and his stage of dementia etc imo. It is a tricky situation given the distant relationship between you and your stepdaughter and your position as wife and his legal attorney. However as his daughter will be with this friend it is perhaps beyond your control to limit this arrangement but has she visited him recently to know that she can handle anything likely to come up?But as attorney I would want full details and presumably your OH is not subject to DOLS as my dad is so has enough mental capacity to decide that he wants the trip. Someone who may know more on this will advise if under DOLS the duty of care and safeguarding can be maintained with the family authority of his daughter and the care home manager can advise on risks of such a trip. One other thought..before dad went into care and he was quite advanced mentally by then, we were having difficulty when he became anxious on car journeys with keeping him calm to the point of him trying to open doors and taking seat belt off whilst I was driving....child locks were used...therefore putting me and him in danger so it became limiting...maybe your OH is at an earlier stage. Is he ok if you take him out?

 

[sah]

As some of you know, I have a very difficult time with OH's family - especially the daughters. When brother turned up-after a three year gap-and refused to contact me-the CH were helpful in that a guidance sheet was drawn up for anyone who wanted to take him out from CH. I was assured that, as his wife, I was next of kin and had final say but this was a way to avoid any conflict. He is under DOLs which does help in such circumstances.

It included advice about helping him to choose food-put on seatbelts ( he thinks he doesn't have to) -places to avoid - his lack of awareness of other people/traffic etc.

When they went to take him out, they had to go through this with a member of staff first. Put my mind at rest - a little-as they had no idea about dementia and how it changes people. Mind you-think they had a better idea after they took him out for the first time!

I also went to the bank ( they already have the POA registered ) and they assured me that only I can access his accounts. The only time the family have said anything, it's been more about his money rather than his care.

I'm afraid I simply don't trust them; they have never tried to help with his care-rarely contacted during the eight and a half years he was still at home - and kicked off really badly when he had to go into full time care. He is my main concern and I will protect him no matter what; I'm actually glad he is too far gone to realise how they have behaved.

I know it's not easy - but you know him best - and you don't have to put up with being treated in this way. A few easy 'safeguards' may help you rest more easily?

 

[optocarol]

My first reaction to your post is that you are not being unreasonable but that your concerns must be for the right reasons relative to your OH and his stage of dementia etc imo. It is a tricky situation given the distant relationship between you and your stepdaughter and your position as wife and his legal attorney. However as his daughter will be with this friend it is perhaps beyond your control to limit this arrangement but has she visited him recently to know that she can handle anything likely to come up?But as attorney I would want full details and presumably your OH is not subject to DOLS as my dad is so has enough mental capacity to decide that he wants the trip. Someone who may know more on this will advise if under DOLS the duty of care and safeguarding can be maintained with the family authority of his daughter and the care home manager can advise on risks of such a trip. One other thought..before dad went into care and he was quite advanced mentally by then, we were having difficulty when he became anxious on car journeys with keeping him calm to the point of him trying to open doors and taking seat belt off whilst I was driving....child locks were used...therefore putting me and him in danger so it became limiting...maybe your OH is at an earlier stage. Is he ok if you take him out?

Thanks all - I do actually (mostly) trust stepdaughter and finances are in hand. I can't check as she and her brother have POA for finance and I'm sure he wouldn't allow anything dodgy. So, no, won't be saying anything along that line!
She won't be with them every time they go, just the first time. There is no question that OH will want to go, he always wants to go anywhere and is OK with me, yes. However, we've been here before when a neighbour used to take him out, then started getting accused of wanting money etc etc, so it all fell over, and that was 2 years ago. There are times when he just takes a dislike to someone, as no doubt some of you can identify with.
I do have confidence in the CH manager, so will await developments.

 

[optocarol]

As some of you know, I have a very difficult time with OH's family - especially the daughters. When brother turned up-after a three year gap-and refused to contact me-the CH were helpful in that a guidance sheet was drawn up for anyone who wanted to take him out from CH. I was assured that, as his wife, I was next of kin and had final say but this was a way to avoid any conflict. He is under DOLs which does help in such circumstances.

It included advice about helping him to choose food-put on seatbelts ( he thinks he doesn't have to) -places to avoid - his lack of awareness of other people/traffic etc.

When they went to take him out, they had to go through this with a member of staff first. Put my mind at rest - a little-as they had no idea about dementia and how it changes people. Mind you-think they had a better idea after they took him out for the first time!

I also went to the bank ( they already have the POA registered ) and they assured me that only I can access his accounts. The only time the family have said anything, it's been more about his money rather than his care.

I'm afraid I simply don't trust them; they have never tried to help with his care-rarely contacted during the eight and a half years he was still at home - and kicked off really badly when he had to go into full time care. He is my main concern and I will protect him no matter what; I'm actually glad he is too far gone to realise how they have behaved.

I know it's not easy - but you know him best - and you don't have to put up with being treated in this way. A few easy 'safeguards' may help you rest more easily?

Thanks Sah - you gave me a thought i.e. I'll ask the manager what's the process in the circumstances. up till now, it's only been people she (manager) knew were family, so hasn't been an issue.

 

[oilovlam]

Optocarol, I hope things work out for you. It sounds like you are letting the CH manager take the lead....which should prevent you being accused of 'controlling' by the step daughter.

As long as things are done safely and people are aware of the risks then it may work out well. Your husbands old friend may prove to be a godsend....or they may realise they have bitten off too much, and quietly make their excuses & leave. It is only when the going gets tough do you realise who your true friends are. But as a guardian you should also question people's motives but if you are 'left out of the loop' by them not communicating then that is infuriating and makes your welfare role difficult.

Families are a pain.....but you miss them when they are gone.

Hope things work out.