Contribution to household costs

[Mark1]

Hi and a Happy New Year!

I would like to know what contribution can be reasonably be made towards household costs on behalf of my father who has been in a nursing home for over six years. My mother has Lasting Power of Attorney.

The garage required a new roof last year, the 1970s bathroom was replaced...my Mum also needs to run a car to visit my father.

She is currently going through a financial assessment by Social Services. She has not yet taken 50% of the cost of the building work from my father's bank account although the work was completed a few months ago - she found it easier to pay the bills from one account, her own. Can she now transfer the funds from my father's account as Social Services are aware of the current (incorrect?) balance.

If costs such as a contribution to the building work are eligible, my father's savings would be well below 14,000 GBP and presumably there would be no contribution to care costs in such circumstances?

My father is bed bound and is 1 on the scale where 10 is good.

 

[Saffie]

The first thing to bear in mind is that there will always be a contribution to be made towards the cost of care or nursing homes even if capital is below £14,250.
All pensions will have to be paid towards the fees, less half a private or occupational pension which is usually allowed at the discretion of the local authority. Alternatively this can be sacrificed and pension credit applied for instead of this would bring a better income for the spouse. An allowance of around £24 a week is given for the person in the nursing home though this is sometimes increased a little.

It would have been a good idea to address the building work etc. with the financial assessor as he/she could have answered all your questions. I found mine to be very helpful. However, you could ring this person up if you have a name or maybe wait until you have the letter from the LA financial officer - who will be the person who actually makes the decisions.

Half of essential maintenance of the home is usually quite permissible but I very much doubt that they will allow expenses to run a car. I'm absolutely certain that my LA wouldn't have and there was no bus service for the 18 miles I travelled to visit my husband daily. Utilities too, have to be paid by the person actually living in the house although half the building insurance can be allowed as the person in the NH still owns half the building.

Hope this helps.

 

[Beate]

I'd say you need approval for this from SS. From my point of view I don't see how anyone who has been in a nursing home for six years should be in any way contributing to the running of a household he no longer lives in. He's not using the bathroom or garage, so why should he help pay for a new one? I'm not an expert but I would also have thought the car is your Mum's responsibility. I could of course be wrong but if you suddenly take lots of money out of your father's funds, hereby making his savings go under the threshold, Social Services will not like it and could accuse you of deprivation of assets, so you need to be very careful here and get this approved before you do it.

 

[Jessbow]

Ask- much as you father owns half of the property, if its been disregarded, I guess they might say you cant have it both ways up, if is disregarded, I cant see as he is liable for contributing towards its upkeep.

 

[Pete R]

I would like to know what contribution can be reasonably be made towards household costs on behalf of my father who has been in a nursing home for over six years.

Hi Mark1 and welcome to TP,
Your Father should be in receipt of a Personal Expenses Allowance of £24.90/week for personal expenses. The Local Authority have the option to increase this amount under certain circumstances.

Annexe C, Sec 46 of the Care Act 2014 Statutory Guidance states......

d) Where a person’s property has been disregarded the local authority should consider whether the PEA is sufficient to enable the person to meet any resultant costs. For example, allowances should be made for fixed payments (like mortgages, rent and Council Tax), building insurance, utility costs (gas, electricity and water, including basic heating during the winter) and reasonable property maintenance costs.

You will need to get in touch with the Financial Department of Local Authority.

Good Luck.

 

[Saffie]

Hi Mark1 and welcome to TP,
Your Father should be in receipt of a Personal Expenses Allowance of £24.90/week for personal expenses. The Local Authority have the option to increase this amount under certain circumstances.

Annexe C, Sec 46 of the Care Act 2014 Statutory Guidance states......

d) Where a person’s property has been disregarded the local authority should consider whether the PEA is sufficient to enable the person to meet any resultant costs. For example, allowances should be made for fixed payments (like mortgages, rent and Council Tax), building insurance, utility costs (gas, electricity and water, including basic heating during the winter) and reasonable property maintenance costs.
K
You will need to get in touch with the Financial Department of Local Authority.

Good Luck.

I'm shocked! How can somebody who doesn't live in the home be responsible for contributing towards heating, lighting and water usage? Council tax will already be reduced due to the dementia diagnosis anyway. The only things I was allowed were half the cost of replacement glass in a few double glazed windows where condensation had occurred and half the buildings insurance - not the contents. That only applied if the person in the nursing home owned half the home too.

 

[Pete R]

I'm shocked!

I'm quite shocked you are shocked since you were yourself were a beneficiary of this. (I think it was similar under CRAG). As it is at the discretion of each LA I do very much doubt that all the examples would be allowed in any one case but those are the rules.

I have no idea why it is included but maybe it is an attempt to not make the OH, still in the joint house, being forced to move out due to hardship and also not make it impossible for the person in care to maybe return to at some stage whether that be for EoL or other circumstance.

 

[Saffie]

I'm quite shocked you are shocked since you were yourself were a beneficiary of this. (I think it was similar under CRAG). As it is at the discretion of each LA I do very much doubt that all the examples would be allowed in any one case but those are the rules.

I have no idea why it is included but maybe it is an attempt to not make the OH, still in the joint house, being forced to move out due to hardship and also not make it impossible for the person in care to maybe return to at some stage whether that be for EoL or other circumstance.

No, I was most certainly not a beneficiary of this. All I ever had allowed was, as I said, half the cost of replacement glass for 4 window panes and half the house building insurance. I later paid upfront for a funeral plan for my husband and this was acceptable too. That is all.
In fact, the reason I am so shocked is that when my husband was still self-funding, I used our joint account for the usual utilities direct debits. This had always been what happened and it didn't occur to me to change it, especially as he had been in hospital nearly 9 months prior to being transferred to a nursing home.

However, once my husband 's capital reduced to £23,250 and the LA became involved, they deemed this to be a deprivation of assets and refused to start subsidising his nursing home fees for some months, later changing this to reducing his capital by £5,000 to £18,00. This was before the LA had any input whatsoever!
Apparently this was because my husband's pensions were the main contributions to the joint account. Something I think that is not unusual for my generation.

So definitely not a beneficiary
I apologise to those TPers who have heard my tale before!

 

[Mark1]

Thanks for your comments so far

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

The house may be disregarded but that it is for now - the LA has certainly not forgotten it.

I will do some further research then contact the Financial Assessor as suggested.

It would appear to be in their interest that the property is maintained as this will retain its value.

My father will never be coming home. He woke up unable to move his legs aged 68 and now at 74 very rarely says anything or shows signs of recognition. His food is pureed due to difficulty in swallowing.

He was in receipt of NHS CHC so it seems perverse to attempt to reduce his funding as his health deteriorates.

Once I can confidently answer my own question, I will post what I have learnt in case it is of use to anyone else now or in the future.

Best wishes,

Mark

 

[Mark1]

Spouse committing to paying for own care in future if LA (part) funds husband's care

By the way, the Assessor said on the phone to my mother and sent a document to the effect that LA funding for my father is dependent on her committing to funding herself any care she may need in future.

Is this normal? Who can tell what her circumstances will be if she does need care in future?

 

[Saffie]

That sounds very strange and I have never heard of it though of course as the house will enter the equation there will be added funds available.

 

[Pickles53]

Sounds odd to me too. I thought each person was assessed financially based on their own needs and assets at the time care is needed. I would query this and ask for written response quoting or referencing the relevant legislation/statutory guidance.

It is true that if a house has previously been disregarded because a spouse is living there, when the second person goes into care that may significantly change the overall financial assessment (for bothnpeople).

 

[Boldredrosie]

Once I can confidently answer my own question, I will post what I have learnt in case it is of use to anyone else now or in the future.

Please do Mark. I'd be very interested. I jointly own my home with my mam who is in a care home. I have always paid all the utilities in the house and half of maintenance costs. I intend to use mam's money to pay for maintenance costs as the property is her single biggest asset and will need to be liquidated to pay for care home fees in the future, therefore, as her LPA I view this as protecting her asset.